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Section for Mr. M

I wanted to thank you for helping me out a bit with my first page :-) i'm not that good with editing/creating pages yet so i'm glad to know that i have some help ^_^

Don't know if my last message got to you, my internet is taking the best of me. Nevertheless, I want to thank you for helping me out with my first page. i'm not that good yet at editing/creating articles. I'm glad to know that i have some help in case i make some mistakes. Again, thank you very much for your help. :-)

Mr.Mastersskull 21:46, April 2, 2012 (UTC) (Mr.)Mastersskull

Hello Senvaikis,

I'm sorry if I'm causing you a lot of trouble but could you pherhaps help me with something :-x? It seems that I accidentally created the same page twice. I am talking about these 2 pages :

Also, i can't seem to redirect this page to one of the above :

I hope you can help me out with this. Again, my deepest apologies if I cause you a lot of trouble. :-(

Mr.Mastersskull 19:45, April 3, 2012 (UTC)(Mr.)Mastersskull

Done done (partially - artist page still wasn't created). BTW, both pairs of pagetitles you mentioned are absolutely identical ("%3A" is url-encoded ":") :).
Sorry for minimal help - i'm on vacation now... --Senvaikis (talk) 20:51, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your assistance. I'll try to stop taking more of your time and pherhaps i can find some info on the Artists, have a nice vacation. :-) 21:23, April 3, 2012 (UTC) (Mr.)Mastersskull

RE: Chorus

I don't know how to do this; and frankly, I'm getting rather upset.

I'm contacted out of the blue, by a member, "6x9", who tells me I'm doing something against "the rules"; and the rules he states (and links to) contradict what he's saying I'm doing wrong (avoiding unnecessary repetition). - Since his First message made no sense, I ignored it.

I'm then contacted again, by the same member, this time, rudely... - I finally write back to this member - pointing out his contradictions & asking what it is I'm actually doing wrong, since the very thing he's saying I'm doing wrong, is the very thing the rules say is allowed... and since he chose to be rude, I admittedly, was no more polite than he (or she) was to me.

Now, I get several messages today, from various people... All who seem to have missed the original point -- and who only talk about every OTHER issue, I brought up in my original message/reply -- issues I only brought up to serve my point as to why EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, I use the "&" substitution for "and"... and so forth.

And as far as, "I can't spot any rudeness in...." --- That's because you (apparently) read only "6x9"s FIRST message. The Rudeness, came in the 2nd... which is all of 2 lines below the first (as no one else had "left a message" to me yet -- so the 1st & 2nd, are "6x9"... then is MY reply (which I copied/pasted on my page, just to ensure it was seen/read prior to "6x9" leaving a 3rd)... and again, now, I come here & find a whole wall of jumbled text from different members --- And again --- None, even focus on the actual issue.... And none it seems, read neither "6x9"s, or Mine, in full (or at all).

Fantastic. Now I'm being lectured by people who don't even care enough to read the messages, and don't know the full, or actual story. Wow.

1st, The pages are in ENGLISH, are they NOT?.... So, since even you (or one of you) said that "while everyone who speaks English knows "&" = "and"..." -- Okay, Nuff said... Forget the reason WHY I was doing it (iPod-friendly-formatting)... why are you arguing the REASON, not the FACT?... The Facts, are these are English Language Pages ---- And as far as "other languages/translations".... Everyone in the world, who knows how to use a computer, and is "savvy" enough to use &/or edit pages, has been on the internet long enough to understand... even if they don't speak or write perfect English, that "&" equals "and". The only people you're talking about, wouldn't be: A) Using this site to begin with... B) Using the internet, because they have no computer... etc. etc. etc. --- Again, arguing WHY I did something -- instead of WHAT -- while making no (common) sense... But whatever -- I'll give that one to you (all)...

2nd, back to the actual point of all this mess -- Go back & read (or read, for the 1st time) MY original message ----- Never mind the extraneous comments about iPod formatting, "&"/"and", etc. etc. etc.... Just read the part about AVOIDING REPETITION, and SONG FORMAT-BREAKS (particularly as it relates to "Chorus"). I read the rule -- before, and after, "6x9"s original message -- I'm avoiding endless repetition... and in doing so, allowing the reader(s) to know where breaks occur in songs with choruses that repeat 3 or more times after the last verse (without spelling out "music-break", and so on, which is against the rules)

3rd, I'm not wasting my freaking time anymore on this crap. 99.9% of EVERY Lyric I've come across, has been wrong. Whoever populated this site with the vast majority of these lyrics, simply copied & pasted them here, from elsewhere.... These include incorrect words &/or lines... Missing words &/or lines... etc. etc... I THOUGHT it would be a welcomed thing, that at least SOMEONE on this site, was taking the time to actually provide ACCURATE lyrics.... The fact that I was making them iPod-friendly, was just an added "you're welcome", from me, to everyone else (and while, yes, there are more 'toys' than just iPod's -- I should've said, "Apple friendly", as it's the same on iPod/iPhone/etc... the format's don't change, just the size of the text on the screen; but anyway....) ________

Obviously, the Admins of this site don't care about people following the rules (unless it's "&" vs. "and")... (and as I said multiple times, I still haven't seen anything that says THAT is not okay -- just your preference)....





I followed the rules -- I did exactly what it said I was ALLOWED to do... If there's "no disc space saved on your severs"... Oh Well... There's Space Saved On OUR Computers & OUR iPods, iPhones, etc... as I also mentioned earlier. Either your rules are Black & White (as I see them)... or they're all different shades of Gray (as you see them), and open to your particular preference, at any given time, for any reason.

....LOL, you'd think, after all this, it was my job to correct lyrics, and that I was being paid for it... I'm doing this, not because I have to; but because I WANTED to..... but if this is how I'm to be treated, talked to, etc... then clearly, this is not a site that deserves the many hours, which I've put into it... let alone, the countless more that I would have.... because as I'd mentioned in my original message (to "6x9")... I'm just now getting to bands that start with "D"! _____ And if this is to be my "thanks", for following the rules... and for correcting HUNDREDS of Lyrics... then, all I can say, is, Wow.


Christien LeBlanc 23:02, April 5, 2012 (UTC)Christien LeBlanc


hey Senv, it's Nicolas. You see, yesterday, I made two sampling templates, Sample and Sample2. But as you know, lots of songs are sampled many, many times by countless artists, so I was wondering if you could make a "Sampled" template, similar to the "Covered" template, because the coding on the Covered template looks much more complicated than the coding on the other two, and you probably have much more experience in coding than I. Thanks in advance. XxTimberlakexx 21:22, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

DoneGreen Done, but truth to tell, I'm not sure we should start using this template immediatly and widely. That's why:
  • first of all, this information isn't lyrics-related, so strictly speaking, is redundant in LW as lyrics site. Especially keeping in mind that
  • sampled-lists for some songs may be big enough to start looking like a phone-book :). Take for example James Brown:Funky Drummer, used as polygon for template testing. List of its samples may contain over 180 items... Don't forget, that {{Sampled}} is limited by 50 items. Are you going to complete this list, or even extend its limits?
So, I'd recommend to discuss your idea more widely before starting any massive edits.
Regards, --Senvaikis (talk) 06:33, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Well, Trainman said it was a good idea, so I just followed suit and made it. But that's true, it's limited. We could always use several of those templates if it gets too big.

Also, templates like GameFeature, GameFeatureDLC, MovieFeature, and TV Series also don't have to do with lyrics, yet we've had them for quite a while, and I've invested much work in them. I'll probably do some of the list whenever I have time, tho, even though it is quite large (180 items? wow).

Oh, and I hate to be a bother, but unrelated, Memphis Minnie's page is a mess. Luckily, I found a bunch of lyrics to her material and added it, but the album names may be inaccurate. So if you could touch up a bit on her page, maybe, that would be great too.

Great talking to you again. :) XxTimberlakexx 21:58, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

Done Done (partially). Page's still far from completeness, but truth to tell I don't believe it may ever be completed due to the age of its content... Btw, nice to know you also like the blues - usually such musical taste is more typical for such an old-man like me ;)
On the other hand, I shouldn't wonder, knowing that sphere of your musical interests covers even XVIII age ;)
Cheers, --Senvaikis (talk) 10:57, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
I lifted the 50 item restriction. - Chris 18:35, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
Are you sure it's really meaningful for a lyrics-oriented site, Chris? --Senvaikis (talk) 19:43, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
We are lyrics oriented, yes, but links to other songs help users to find more music they are interested in. It's fine to have the lyrics, but you have to spread the word about the other pages. That's my opinion. The space-problem (too long lists above the lyrics section) can be solved by a maximum height of the area, so that it never takes more space than 4 lines, otherwise you get a scrollbar within the spoiler. - Chris 20:59, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
Actually, Senv, I haven't heard any of Memphis Minnie's material; in fact, I was only working on it because her song When The Levee Breaks was covered by Led Zeppelin. Just note that not all artists I've worked on here are artists I enjoy/listen to. I tend to work on artists I haven't even heard of sometimes. No worries, though, people tend to think that quite a lot.

Regarding Memphis Minnie, I'm more into 60s, 70s, and 80s work, and I'm sure music that old wouldn't fit my taste. Anyways, thanks for working on the page, looks a lot better now. XxTimberlakexx 01:06, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Actually I wasn't very serious speaking about your "oldies-oriented" taste - that was just attempt to remind you (in a humorous form, possibly lame), that album date should fit its release date, not the date of song/opera creating :). --Senvaikis (talk) 05:46, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Well, you said this:

"Btw, nice to know you also like the blues - usually such musical taste is more typical for such an old-man like me ;)

On the other hand, I shouldn't wonder, knowing that sphere of your musical interests covers even XVIII age"

implying that I listen to music from the 20s. But I don't, so just clearing that up. Also yes, I saw that Mozart page. Wikipedia said the opera was composed in 1786, so I just left it as that. XxTimberlakexx 15:06, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

No, Nicolas, you haven't just "saw that page and just left it as that". You've created it. That's why namely you was mentioned as possible addressy for that curiosity.
Yes, Wikipedia is right about the date of opera creating, but that has nothing to do with the album release date, which should be used in album page title according to our pagenaming policy. --Senvaikis (talk) 16:19, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
Lol dude, I know I created it. You don't have to get mad at me. XxTimberlakexx 23:28, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
Also, keep your eye on the user Ahcsas2. She/he keeps formatting a bunch of pages wrong, so you and I can help fix it. XxTimberlakexx 00:50, May 12, 2012 (UTC)

Curiosity C:CC

Hi Senv,

I don't really have a solution, but I think you might enjoy this website. If you copy the space into the text box, it returns that this is an ideographic space. You can also look up the hex code "E3 80 80" there, which indeed is the code that your hex editor shows as replacement for the regular space hex code "20". - Chris 18:44, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Thx, Chris, but I'm an old user and adept of UltraEdit - if you ever tried it, you'd agree that it's a #1 text-editor, must-have for any programmer. --Senvaikis (talk) 19:27, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
I'm using Notepad++, it's free and as far as I can see it has all features except for the column functions (it has a multiline edit mode though). Smile - Chris 20:54, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
Good choice too - I used to try it formerly, but seems it didn't support scriptable macroses, file compare and multiline regex'es then. Maybe current version now supports all these features? --Senvaikis (talk) 20:46, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
It has macros, although they are definitely more limited than the ones you know from Ultra Edit. It's very lousy in fact and doesn't support the commands from the menues, as it is just the most basic form of macros: key-down and key-up record. The problem is that the output of shortcuts for the menu items is saved as result, not as the shortcut. An example: You make Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Up the shortcut for uppercase the selected letters. Now one would think that this key combo
Shift (down)
Shift (up)
saved as a macro and looped over a file will uppercase your first letters for each line. Actually however, if recorded on a file that contains this is text, the result in the file where you record the macro is This is text as desired, but executed on a file like
some text
turns it into
Tome text
I don't know what you mean by multiline regexp, but you can choose between a mode that supports the \r, \t, \n, ... notations, and a mode that supports expressions like ^(.*<a.*href=")([^"]*)("[^<]*</a>.*)$ to \1\3.
It has a file compare mode that works very quick for normal file sizes and is quite usable, given that it is free of any charge. :) - Chris 23:57, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

Stars for GN-taken pages

Hey, I have a question. Is it possible to rank pages Gold-starred with the Gracenote takedown on it? I mean, to do so, you have to certify the lyrics, which is hard to do if most of them are took down. ;) XxTimberlakexx 12:55, May 12, 2012 (UTC)

Uh, this question has been discussed multiple times, and I think we had not brought it to an end yet... I feel we are in need of a special "star colour" for GN, which is "none". I think you can't rate the quality of lyrics you mustn't present, can you? - Chris 20:59, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
@xx:strictly following current lw:pr policy - no, it is impossible imo.
@Chris: I don't see how may additional star-color solve this problem, without essential changes in lw:pr.
--Senvaikis (talk) 19:12, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
@Senv: Only one: "none". Star colour "none" (as a real word, opposed to the black star when you do not supply any explicit colour) hides the star on the page. It's applied to Gracenote-takedowns. We could teach GNB to set it to none and restore it from the hisotry like the lyrics. As the parameter is a named one, it should be fairly easy to get the star colour with a regexp, that looks a little something like this:
- Chris 23:14, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
Yes, but what problem does it really solve (without lw:pr changing)?
  • GN-taken song now becomes absolutelly unrankable (now even to bronze)
  • album, containing such song (e.g., artist too), also can't be ranked, at least to silver or gold
One additional note: most of GN-taken songs belong to well-known artists, so nothing strange, that usually most of them used to have perfectly filled-in lyrics and formatted pages far before gn-takedown. So, now Led Zeppelin:Stairway To Heaven can't be golden? I don't agree. I agree to Kiefer, who certified my beloved song to Gold. If Stairway can't be golden, then all this ranking's not worth a fig.
--Senvaikis (talk) 08:16, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
Yes, indeed I agree now. Hm, I feel the urge to invent a new ranking system, but that's a bit tricky at the moment. I would love to introduce a ranking system that splits lyrics-ranking from metadata-ranking.
Actually I already planned something like that for the T-Line back then: You fill in the parameters on the talkpage. Based on that, the template there automatically calculates the achieved page ranking. The SongHeader template again transcludes the talk page, that creates code for the correct star colour and a box that appears if you hover the star, looking like this:

This song is ranked Bronze.
Certified: yes
Watchers: 0
Missing information:

That would be pretty cool, because talkpage and song can't be out of sync and the best rating is always applied. Changes in the ranking will not need the pages to be updated, just refreshed, and we can always implement something like new ranking systems like the one mentioned above. We could do it without teaching everybode about the new rules etc.
I also thought about something like the colour is for information, plus some extra icon feature (like two laurel branches below the star) if you have watchers, which doesn't change the colour though. So you've got a gold song if the information was claimed correct once, and the feature indicates that someone will look after the song, showing that it's in a save state.
It's also pretty easy to implement, I'll give it a shot on the next vacations, when I'm pushing the T-Line again. Last time I added to the documentations. It's a pity I barely have time to develop it.

Why are you creating dead links?

Why are you taking down pictures that I just uploaded, saying there is no link to it? I re-upload, make the link, the picture is take down again. Very frustrating! Can I re-upload the 3 picture (yes, one is low-res but it is punk) in the confidence that my work will not be in vain? --MarjonW 13:25, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

If you really don't want to work in vain (and make me work in vain too), - please, spend some time studying LW documentation. Fell free to ask any questions, if you don't understand something. --Senvaikis (talk) 13:45, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Font Et Val


In this edit, in order to make the track lists HTML lists (which I agree is good), you have deleted song numbers. I know this wouldn't be a problem if the track lists on the page were complete, but the thing is, this group does comedy, half songs and half tracks that are not music (stand up, etc.). To avoid dozens of either red links or empty pages, would you find something like this acceptable?:

  1. 1. L'Autogestion
  2. 5. Premier Amour
  3. 8. Soir De Gala

--Rinaku 19:38, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Or would something like this be better?:

  1. L'Autogestion
  2. Le Paysan (not a link)
  3. Je t'aime
  4. Si tu disposes de quelques jours
  5. Premier Amour
  6. Track #6
  7. Track #7
  8. Soir De Gala

--Rinaku 19:46, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Lol, most of my below text has became useless, but I'll paste it anyway: (notice {{lw}} using...)
Hi, Rinaku,
now I understand why some albums on this page have incomplete tracklists :). While changing plain-text numbering to LW-standard numbered lists (that's mandatory tracklist formatting requirement), I thought that you are going to complete them later, just you didn't know the lyrics for other songs atm and tried to avoid red-links. I was even going to ask you to complete these tracklist...
Now I agree - it wouldn't be a good idea to fill the page widh red-links, which will never turn blue. But on the other hand, if you are creating a page for an album, it would be desirable to provide the full tracklist, at least on the album page. Not all this numbered traklist members must be links. What do you think about such tracklist?
{{lw}} used just to avoid backlinks to my talk page)
  1. L'Autogestion
  2. The 2nd track title
  3. The 3d track title
  4. The 4th track title
  5. Premier Amour
Your approach with OL may be suitable for brief album representation on the artist page (with appropriate info note). That's only my suggestion, I'm not even sure that it's the best, but thanks for letting me know about this issue.
And one more note I was going to ask you - please avoid plain-text album titles, make them as LW-standard linked album titles at once while creating them. Tia, --Senvaikis (talk) 20:39, May 17, 2012 (UTC)
Actually, there are also songs missing on the page, since I don't have the whole discography, and for tracks that I don't have, I don't know if they are songs or not... Well, I'll start by completing the tracklists with non-links. Also, actually I could transcribe the tracks that are not songs (there are already songs with more talking than singing; I transcribed one of them: Font Et Val:La Rivière), but I don't plan to do that before long. --Rinaku 21:08, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Album cover names

Hello. Thank you for adding missing punctuation to the name of album covers I had uploaded. But I saw that you did it only for some of the files, and also that you removed the standard capitalization on 4 file names. Is there a logic behind this? --Rinaku 13:43, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

Good question, Rinaku. Yes, there is some logic.
Let's start from the fact, that Lw pagenaming policy is applicable to pages (artists, albs, songs), but it's not mandatory for file names. So, lowercasing some inichars in album art filename doesn't break any LW policy, moreover - very often it's even desirable.
As you know, Lw page-formatting policy requires all iniCaps it pagetitles (e.g - in links to them too), but it allows and even recommends us to apply the native language titling rules for a display-part (text after the pipe) of the link. So, album "Ça va chier !" by Font Et Val may be formatted as Ça Va Chier ! (1987), but Ça va chier ! (1987) is preferrable, 'cause it meets French language titling rules (without breaking LW pagenaming policy).
Now look at recommendations for artwork file names and {{Album Art}} using: as you see, recommended pattern for filename is "<Artist Name> - <Album title>.<ext>". Then Album Art template will look like {{Album Art|<Artist Name> - <Album title>.ext|<Display-text>}}, and may be simplified to just {{Album Art||<Display-text>}}, if filename part <Album title> fits exactly to <Display-text>. That's why the best choice for filename of mentioned album is "Font Et Val - Ça va chier !.jpg".
Hope my bad English didn't make such a simple thing too complicated. And sorry, if I missed some files/pages, but I hope you understand that fixing all the pages here is just impossible mission. Usually I just show how that should be done imo and hope you'll complete the rest yourself.
Otherwise I'd have much more than current ~3.8*106 edits here... ;)
hth, and happy editing --Senvaikis (talk) 16:12, May 18, 2012 (UTC)
That's what I was wondering. Thanks for the explanation, it is very clear. --Rinaku 16:26, May 18, 2012 (UTC)
Apparently I don't have the rights to rename files. So, if you're willing to do it, on Font Et Val you can see 5 covers that could be renamed. BTW, is there a standard place to ask an administrator to rename a page? --Rinaku 22:17, May 18, 2012 (UTC)
As was mentioned already, such file naming pattern is recommended, but not mandatory, - so there's no necessity to rename all remaining your covers, which are already backlinked, so better take this experience for the future uploads & edits, and I'll be satisfied :). regards, --Senvaikis (talk) 18:55, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

Questions from a newbie

First Question Can I really use the "listalbum" tag ? I didn't find anything about this in the FAQ or the Help Section, but that's the way the first artist I edited was done. Perhaps I just didn't find it, i'm still bad with the wiki. I think it's more convenient not to have the artist and then the album page to be edited when you have to change something, thanks to the tag. But I was thinking, it might be why I had problems with Lwt :s

Second Question How do you rename a Art Album Cover ? There is no "Rename" link. I guess the question has already been asked, but I didn't find the answer. Maybe I should be more careful about the warnings when I upload ArtCovers :s

Third Question Why do we get so much errors from the Database ? Is this only LyricsWikia or the whole Wikia ? I get errors at least once a day (often much more) :s

Fourth and Last Thanks to take the time to read my poor english (we all know that French People are bad at foreign languages), to correct my bad dog's (I'm trying to be more careful for that), and all the others mistakes I can do.

(Note: I hope it's the right page this time ^^" )

Small edit to ask another question: I just tried the "LW Chat", but it seems I was the only one there. It is because of my unpopular, maybe insupported browser, or is the chat really empty ?

Lirfie 18:43, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for being short, - currently haven't free time enough for complete explanations. Thus feel free to reask me later, if some questions still remain actual.
  1. Strictly speaking, {{list album}} isn't officially supported. One of main reasons - incompatibility to lw:api. Just try this example to see, that only Other Songs of Daniel Balavoine are visible to api. But things are going to be changed in the nearest future (by LWChris' T-Line). That's why I didn't bothered you with these details - anyways big changes are comming... :)
  2. Real renaming is nothing more than deleting an old page and recreating it under a new title. Deletion, as you know, is admins' only privilegy (penance?). In most cases you may solve your problems using #REDIRECT directive, but if you decide that page/file should be deleted or renamed(moved) - use template {{deletion}} or just let us (admins) know.
  3. Don't know (I felt that too). That's a Q for Sean
  4. You are welcome; (my English isn't much better...)
  5. Yes, that's the right place indeed :)
  6. No, that's not your browsers guilt and yes, usually chat is empty (you may want to make a "prior agreement" before chatting... ;))
hth, --Senvaikis (talk) 20:03, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Hi Senvaikis, Thanks for helping us poor newbies :)

I understand the reason for the first change (deletion of the page and redirection to correct url (artist name:song instead of artist name: song)). Humble apologies, my bad. I hope the new page will appear on google, as the one I created originally still comes at the top of the page, shame.

But I don't understand the removal of the cover artwork. You wrote: "Unused file: all possible sins here". I like the humour but please could you enlighten me? :)

Thank you and best regards Sun17 12:53, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Sun17,
Glad you asked me about the issue instead of getting mad on me for this facetious comment not very successfull, to be honest ;).
But as most jokes, this one have had some grounding too :). Let's try to list some "sins" atm of my revision:
  1. song page title did't follow pagenaming policy, as you noticed already;
  2. song page was "orphaned", e.g. it wasn't linked from any other LW page, 'cause artist page didn't exist yet;
  3. page didn't contain mandatory songheader - {{Song}};
  4. it didn't contain other mandatory template {{SongFooter}} as well;
  5. but it contained an image of single cover art, which, as you understand, is attribute of album, not the song (so it should be removed at least from this song page);
  6. So, image file became "unused", e.g. there wasn't any page, linked to this image. That's one of the most serious reasons for file deleting.
  7. maybe even then I'd not deleted it, if it satisfied all lw requirements for coverart image uploads, but it:
    1. was mistiled (that's not a big "sin", 'cause filename pattern "<Artist name> - <Album title>.(jpg/png/gif)" is not mandatory, just recommended
    2. didn't contain mandatory {{Album Art}} info, e.g. wasn't categorized and didn't have information about the source it was taken from. That's why I had no other choice - and deleted it.
So, hope now you agree that my lame comment wasn't absolutely baseless, as well as file deletion :). I made some corrections to this artist page, as some kind of penitence for my lame jokes ;) - hope they will serve you as better kind of explanations, how things should be done here :).
And please, take a look at your talk-page, - now it contains a standard welcome-message with some links to our documentation and help. Hope they will be usefull to you. Anyway, - feel free to ask any questions, if needed.
Hth, and happy editing, - --Senvaikis (talk) 17:53, June 6, 2012 (UTC)


Thanks for catching that error ('Cause / And) on the Puppet lyrics... it's rare that I make a mistake -- that seems to have been a hold-over from EP Version (that line started with "And" in the EP Version)...

Anyway, why is it only a Bronze star though? Should it not be Silver, or Gold? __(if not, why not?)
Also, I realize that in proper English, the punctuation change you made ("colon" from "comma") is correct; but is it proper in song lyrics?... or is that just a personal preference? (I'm just curious)

Thanks, Christien L 13:02, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Hi Christien
In order of posting:
  1. You are welcome - to err is human, and you are far from being an exception, but that's not the main your problem imo (we'll return to that later).
  2. Yes, - most of songs of this group deserve to be ranked silver or even gold indeed. But stars are indicators of LW page, not a recording, ranking system. So initially their pages should be made silver or gold. I'm not very good in English, so you'd better look at LW:PR policy page to realize that even after I've added all available metadata info to the mentioned page, it still couldn't be ranked even silver (it still lacks credits info and watcher). To make it golden you should certificate it in addition.
  3. Yes, it's proper in song lyrics. But if you have any sourced info, that some other, different punctuation was used by the author of lyrics, and this info have any reasonable grounding, - then you are free to revert this edit.
You haven't asked me one more question - about songs versioning. That's why I'll not speak about that, just note: that's one more thing you should carefully reread in our documentation and users discussions, to understand that different punctuation or line splitting isn't a sufficient reason for creating a separate pages for song versions.
I intentionally added this comment to unasked question - just to return us to promised comment about the main your error. So, when someone redirects such redundant version page to the right place, I'd recommend you to thank such user for a help. If you disagree, you may discuss the issue with this user or ask for other admin or community opinion. One thing you certainly can't do here - that's using such expressions as 'jerk', while speaking about any user in our community. Imo that's the main error you've maide here for a while. Hope the last one.
--Senvaikis (talk) 16:38, June 11, 2012 (UTC)
Wow, it seems I dropped the ball when I was re-configuring those...
The EP Version is "If I am just your puppet..."
Had my 'work-load' not been quadrupled by the user, 'Salzion', I ceratinly wouldn't have had to rush to get it all done in the time I had....
'Salzion' reverted nearly all my corrected edits & posts to his original, rampant-error & incomplete versions, which he'd posted a while back - and took offense at my correcting them (then, reverted them back just to spite me... literally everything from the Lyrics, the Star Color, the Metadata, and so on -- something I've already reported to another admin; and we're on the lookout, in case he tries to do it again) -- at any rate, I didn't notice he'd done this until today, when I came back to finish the little I had left to do (only to find out, I had to do nearly everything, all over again!)
About "song versions" -- I don't understand what you're saying there... Every "version" ("Demo", "EP", "Acoustic" or "Album" versions) -- are all different lyrically -- some are in fact, completely different with only the title being the same ___ It was LWChris (Admin) who suggested to me to do the "Versions" & showed me how to post the appropriate Link to each of the different versions in each respective Lyric page. ___ (Note, there are 2 "Demos" which are identical, or nearly identical, to the "Album" version -- I did *Not* create, or even Edit, those 2 "Demo" lyric/song pages... those were created & lyrics posted, by member, "Salzion") ___ The only "Demos" (in the "Other Songs" section) which I Edited/Corrected the lyrics for, were "Fly Away", "Drowning", and "Let's Go To Bed" -- all 3 of which, do not appear at all, anywhere else -- except "Fly Away (Acoustic)" -- but again, the acoustic version is different that the full-length Studio ("Demo") Song.
Thanks for the clarification on the Star Color/Rating
Christien L 18:40, June 11, 2012 (UTC)
  1. If EP version is essentially different indeed from Pre-Op CD version (which exactly contains "I am not your puppet" in the final verse), then you've got a possibility to create one more page with additional version of this song :)
  2. I'm pretty sure you've understood perfectly what I meant speaking about songs (pseudo-)versions. So, please, don't try to involve me into boundless futile discussions - just follow LW pagenaming policy (keep song pagetitle/link as close to the origin as possible, - song version notation shouldn't be included into pagetitle/link while lyrics are identical or differences aren't essential). That's exactly what other our admin was trying to tell you, but you still keep using link to the redirected page.
  1. Please, try to refrain from escalating this theme again and again, at least on my talk page. Nobody's keeping you from making this page golden, - just do it instead of repeating the same story...
  2. And finally, - what disapointed me the most: absolute silence about the main thing I was trying to say you, e.g. - I spent my time in vain. Sad.
nite, --Senvaikis (talk) 21:56, June 11, 2012 (UTC)


Wow, there you go again with the attitude and hostility, for NO reason.

I'm not "Escalating" anything -- You are saying something contradictory to what another ADMIN told me -- I WAS MERELY ASKING FOR CLARIFICATION... As you said, "your English isn't perfect", and I DID NOT understand your point.
"# And finally, - what disapointed me the most: absolute silence about the main thing I was trying to say you, e.g. - I spent my time in vain. Sad."
I don't have the slightest clue what you're trying to say here. None. It's like you're carrying on two conversations and forgetting who is who.
A PREVIOUS MEMBER, the Person who CREATED "The Dreaming" Main Page; and who Reverted Nearly All Posts/Edits ON THE "EPs" ('cause that's ALL I worked on prior to today) -- is who I was referring to... and I even mentioned the User, By Name. __ My Time Spent FINISHING & CORRECTING Many of the Lyrics & Links on those pages, PRIOR TO MAY 2... WAS MOST DEFINITELY "IN VAIN"... because that User, out of spite/anger, Reverted All Changes Back & Erased all Metadata, and even made all the Stars GREEN again (I'd made them Bronze, during my initial "work in vain", as you put it)
You've made quite a few assumptions; and they're all wrong... and you have been unjustifiably hostile towards me, for absolutely NO reason. __ I Thanked you for correcting the Error(s) -- Asked for clarification on why you were taking umbrage with there being several DIFFERENT versions of some songs... I even (TRIED) to explain, that each one of those songs, is Lyrically different from all other versions (and musically different as well)... and NOT just "a couple words different"... Different Lyrics, Different Releases -- and the fact that another Admin SUGGESTED to do it the way it's currently set up... So no, I don't "understand perfectly" what you were trying to say -- not at all. The ONLY Admin I've had ANY contact (aside from you) Regarding "The Dreaming", is LWChris, and it was due to the member previously mentioned causing trouble. __ Yes, LWChris said the "intro naming" on the lyric page shouldn't be done, it was removed without complaint; and he showed me the proper way to provide links to the different versions en-lieu of what I'd previously done.... Although, none of this has anything, whatsoever, to do with anything I've been talking about -- and has absolutely no bearing on anything we discussed, until you brought it up for whatever reason.
Furthermore, I've not spoken to "6 times 9" In a very, very long time... and we NEVER spoke about Anything that had to do with "The Dreaming"... Again, you are VERY confused, and this is a discussion which I do not care to take part in anymore. __ How someone can act like you do, and be an Admin, is frankly astonishing, because on your best day... and even when I did nothing but kiss your freaking a$$ time & time again (since I know all to well about your temper), with multiple 'thanks', and 'please(s)', you still get Hostile & Rude!
Don't bother responding.

Christien L 22:39, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

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