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Idea for tl:Song

What do you think of this? Been sitting on the idea for a while now, but I'd like to get a second opinion before going public because it would be a huge change… also because there's probably lots of potential problems that I haven't thought of… — 6×9 (Talk) 19:08, January 4, 2015 (UTC)

Gone to study your idea, may return tomorrow ...--Senvaikis (talk) 19:57, January 4, 2015 (UTC)
Impressive! Looks too good to remain just an idea and to leave this comment for tomorrow :)
But you are right - a lot of things should be considered/tested before starting any changes. {{AddAlb}} also should be changed then if not merged into new SH.
Btw, haven't heard nothing about DPL 'till today - looks like a small step toward semantic wiki...
thx for a breath of fresh air, --Senvaikis (talk) 21:14, January 4, 2015 (UTC)
Ashamed to say DPL isn't new – it's been around more than 5 years, but I never looked into it until much later… I (sneakily) gave it a test run with {{Artist Rank}} a couple weeks ago, checking if rank on content page and talk page match. No false positives in Category:Invalid Pagerank so far, which is encouraging.
Good point about AddAlb; we might even "convert" that first, as a sort of testcase (not as many pages affected if anything goes wrong). It's easy to make it backwards compatible by naming new parameters album# instead of a#. OTOH I like your idea about merging into SH even better: display up to three albums inline, for more display all but the first in collapsible section. One further step towards userfriendliness.
{{albumcover}} is yet another template whose use would be simplified: just one required parameter (album pagename), no hassle with albumartist etc.
There are also some templates that use full transclusion (like {{Album}} which transcludes album art to check for presence of tl:ac), DPL would handle that a lot more elegantly. — 6×9 (Talk) 22:38, January 4, 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Hero Counter on profile page

Help - I just had a strange thing happen to my Wiki Hero counter on my profile page. It just reset itself to 1/365 after I had made a change to The Beau Brummels track "Til The Day" on 5 January. Yesterday it was (I believe) 262/365. What's strange is I had added new lyrics at 20:56, on 4 January 2015 to The Beau Brummels track "Before Darkness Ends", but the counter appears not to have incremented for that addition. So what did I do wrong and/or is there a way this can be fixed? Read'em And Weep (talk) 02:31, January 6, 2015 (UTC)

I'm afraid I can't be usefull to you here - shame on me, but atm I don't even know what does Wiki Hero counter mean... :) Let's hope someone else, visiting this page, will be able to help you, --Senvaikis (talk) 06:38, January 6, 2015 (UTC)
I think it's that badge you get for editing on x consecutive days… you'll have to contact the Wikia staff, us admins can't do anything about that. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:14, January 6, 2015 (UTC)
You're correct, it is the badge you get for editing on x consecutive days. I will contact the Wikia staff and see what they can do. As always, you admins are very helpful and thanks for pointing me in the right direction.Read'em And Weep (talk) 12:50, January 6, 2015 (UTC)


…might benefit from DPL as well – Cover(ed) etc. too. I've created {{SbA}} since the code is pretty complex (thanks to SongCollabs with their multiple artists), I hope I'll get to test it over the weekend. (Alias isn't enough, we also need to deal with songs where artist prefix != artist page, see sa# parameter in tl:covered. tl:SbA handles that automatically.) These can easily be made backwards compatible by using different param, etc. {{Parody|song=Artist:Title}}. When I update tl:Covered, I'll also merge tl:Cover2 into it; about time this finally happens. Sorry for rambling, dreadful day at work.6×9 (Talk) 20:48, January 8, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I've seen already, moreover - I was playing with your sba atm of your msg. Nice and promising job, 6! Where've we been all these 5 years?...
Btw, I just wonder - how do you cope with all this curly nightmare? Is it possible not being a genius to write all these spaghettis of nested curly brackets with Notepad+, without using some tool? :) --Senvaikis (talk) 21:08, January 8, 2015 (UTC)
notepad++ has the nice feature of highlighting matching brackets… for more complex stuff I insert lots of linebreaks which I remove before saving… I also usually close more "meaty" brackets (like if statements) at once and only then type the stuff that goes inbetween. But even then I occasionally miss a few. — 6×9 (Talk) 21:24, January 8, 2015 (UTC)
Imported SbA into tl:Parody, tried it on a few pages… & promptly an embarrassing error (it overwrote var:artist, set in tl:Song, only apparent when looking at Footer). Other than that, no ill effects yet. — 6×9 (Talk) 12:25, January 10, 2015 (UTC)
Added a stupid fallback (split by first colon) in case target page doesn't exist. — 6×9 (Talk) 15:09, January 10, 2015 (UTC)
Sorry for delay in response - simply haven't anything clever enough to add ;) And even now may to ask a stupid Q: have you tried to evaluate efficiency of DPL-approach for multi-page templates, like {{Covered}}? --Senvaikis (talk) 13:11, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
Interesting: just tried it with 200 pages & got warning about "expensive parser function calls" exceeding 100 (although all 200 were displayed)… But that was triggered by #ifexist, not #dpl, even though the latter should be more expensive. So I rolled my own version of it, and indeed: previewing takes about twice as long, but warning is gone :-) Gotta love that logic.
Oh, and {{Parody}} now allows more than one entry – else some pages would look pretty silly. Might be a good idea to do the same for {{Cover}}. — 6×9 (Talk) 14:26, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

Collab artists

Hi Senv,
don't worry, I'm not asking whether or not to turn them all into collab albums ;-) This question is about what to do with c.artists that have been redirected, either to c.album or one of the c'ing artists (both are rather unsatisfactory): some time ago I suggested they could instead be turned into disambig type pages; e.g. Alan Lastufka & Tom Milsom could link to both individual artists as well as their collab album. What do you think? — 6×9 (Talk) 11:58, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

That's only my first impression, but that'd be certainly better than artist<->album redirs ;). The very nature of allows us to interpret it as a container for objects of different types. And what is more important, such disambig page would be especially useful for collabs, where one (or more) artist doesn't have lw page: c.album then could be built using simple {{Album}}, with ah.artist ->, containing just ext links for such artists. --Senvaikis (talk) 12:57, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
P.S. after rereading what I've wrote, I'm no longer sure, if the final part was a good idea - anyways, we'd think about that yet...
Hi all
I am not sure if I agree with 6 at all! My concern is the entire collab department, artists/albums/also those pages that are still hidden and need to become collab, as well as those that have yet to arrive on site or just arrived like Roy Rogers & Norton Buffalo RR is disambig artist, itm. And writing clear documentation for future generations to handle cases we have yet to see. I am not here only concerned with misapplication of redirs. --ES (talk) 13:32, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
It's not quite enough to say "I disagree" - would be nice to explain why and ellaborate your idea of "entire collab department" in more details - it's highly desirable to know what are you going to describe in this "clear documentation" before writing it. --Senvaikis (talk) 13:56, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
Thank you Senv, so here I go, while trying to avoid any mention of redirs:
  1. How do we decide what is a collab, before even deciding whether or c.alb should be used? Is Roy Rogers & Norton Buffalo a collab or a duo/band? According to what authority (refsite?), or by consulting which check list?
  2. At mb some of these artist instances are dbl links (implying collab) some are single links (band/duo). At discogs, almost all or double links. At AllMusic, it could be either. So I think we need our own definition and rules.
  3. This matter is part of LW:PN, we should all care ;)
  4. I'd like to know very clearly what is the advantage of page, given it' broken footer. If is considered a true artist instance, then the footer should work like any other artist page. Otherwise instead of listing multiple collabs of Buddy Guy & Junior Wells on a collab page, I can indicate their collabs as c.alb, in chronological order, inside both artist pages (simply with a header, no duplicated tracklist). And it also does not violate good taste to have an artist's collabs listed within their non collab works, in chronological order.
Notice that I did not mention redirs at all! How does it sound so far? --ES (talk) 14:32, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
Tell me if I'm wrong: you suggest to completely repudiate the collab.artist page? --Senvaikis (talk) 15:16, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
I'm reading this and I'm interested. Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions (yet).  · Lichtweber talk service  15:13, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
tip of the hat to LW ;-) Senv, if c.alb serves us better and may totally/almost totally take over from, then why not? Maybe the issue can be better illustrated by an example...? --ES (talk) 03:29, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
So? You think some original non redirecty spark of an idea will be forthcoming by Nowruz? If like 6, you don't care, (see his comment on my talk page) just say you don't care, if you don't know, say you don't know. But please kindly refrain from sitting in the middle of the road just like a boulder that rolled down the mountain, because It's not quite enough to answer my question with another question and then appear to have dozed off. If I wanted blank stares and glassy eyed looks on this subject I'd ask two other admins (nic & doc) and they would have every reason to share their blank stares with me. So please kindly accept my far in advance Happy Nowruz! :) --ES (talk) 06:38, January 14, 2015 (UTC) OMG I slipped in a redirect in there!Lord have mercy!

If that was your purpose - you've reached it: answering in your style would be beneath my dignity, thus I better refrain from any comments. Sad... --Senvaikis (talk) 10:24, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

Back to Laura Pausini

Good day.

Look wath royal spanish academy answered by mail (Completly text is under) :

"…La cursiva obligatoria en la escritura de los títulos de obras de creación —según establecen las normas ortotipográficas actuales— delimita ya claramente su extensión (la de los títulos), por lo que debe evitarse escribir con mayúscula todos los elementos significativos del título, como se hace en inglés;…"

It is that italics are obligatory on titles, and that's why we don't need to put capitals on each title: italics makes its long clear enough.

Can we change all titles to italics? I guess we can't. If they cannot be on italics they must be written as i've done, according to what I studied as a translator.

HONESTLY, I tried to asked them what if we are dealing with a case like this, where it is not allowed to wirte titles on italics. I could not.

"Take This Heart" seem not to be Laura's or being sung by her either. I've search on internet and appears, only as "lyrics",and only on two other pages. HI haven't hear it. I guess it should be erased.

Another thing. I was trying to add a second cover to "20 - Grandes Éxtios" cause there's a new reedition (2014), with three new duets, intead of solo versions. What do you suggest ?

--Cauac (talk) 04:59, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Estimado Sr. Cauac:

En relación con su consulta, le remitimos la siguiente información:

Como se indica en la Ortografía de la lengua española (2010), que puede consultar en nuestro portal, en español, se escribe con mayúscula inicial únicamente la primera palabra del título de cualquier obra de creación, sea esta de la naturaleza que sea (libros, cómics, películas, cuadros, esculturas, piezas musicales, programas de radio o televisión, etc.), mientras que el resto de las palabras que lo componen —salvo los nombres propios o las expresiones que, por su naturaleza, exijan la mayúscula— deben escribirse con minúscula: Asesinato en el Comité Central, Cabaret, Cien años de soledad, El estrangulador, La familia de Pascual Duarte, Mujeres al borde de un ataque de nervios, Mujer con espejo. Cuando la obra presenta dos títulos alternativos, normalmente unidos por la conjunción o, la primera palabra del segundo título también debe escribirse con mayúscula inicial: Don Álvaro o La fuerza del sino.

La cursiva obligatoria en la escritura de los títulos de obras de creación —según establecen las normas ortotipográficas actuales— delimita ya claramente su extensión, por lo que debe evitarse escribir con mayúscula todos los elementos significativos del título, como se hace en inglés; así, lo correcto en español es escribir Diccionario de la lengua española, y no ÄDiccionario de la Lengua Española.

Esta norma debe aplicarse a los títulos de todas las obras de creación, incluidas aquellas pertenecientes a épocas en las que, por no estar aún fijadas las normas ortotipográficas, era habitual aplicar la mayúscula más allá de la palabra inicial; así, debe escribirse Libro de buen amor o Divina comedia, en lugar de ÄLibro de Buen Amor o ÄDivina Comedia, como ha sido normal hasta ahora. El artículo que antecede a la mención de ciertas obras de creación no siempre pertenece al título y, en ese caso, debe escribirse con minúscula y en redonda; así ocurre en casos como la Odisea, la Ilíada o la Divina comedia.

Cuando se cita o transfiere un título de otra lengua a un texto en español, puede seguirse sin más la norma española y escribir con mayúscula inicial únicamente la primera palabra: Cavalleria rusticana, Lost in translation, Manhattan transfer, Pulp fiction, West side story, Un chien andalou. No obstante, podrán respetarse, si se conocen, las reglas que rijan en la lengua en la que esté escrito el título.

Reciba un cordial saludo. __________ Departamento de «Español al día» Real Academia Española

Nota: El símbolo Ä precede a las formas o usos incorrectos o desaconsejables según la norma culta del español actual.

Sorry It did not copy italics style, but on mail, it is on italics. Cauac (talk) 05:09, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Cauac
There was no need to repost entire letter on my talk page just to show that I was right, disagreeing with your statement: "In Spanish, in titles you must capitalise content words, the ones with deep meaning..." - see Academy's sample I've bolded for you. And please, start finally learning to post your messages properly :) --Senvaikis (talk) 06:58, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

No, you are not right: La cursiva obligatoria en la escritura de los títulos de obras de creación —según establecen las normas ortotipográficas actuales— delimita ya claramente su extensión, por lo que debe evitarse escribir con mayúscula todos los elementos significativos del título…

What it means that you don't need to capitalice every meaning word, for identifying title extension, because it is noticeable enough by the obligattory Italics.

Spanish titles on lw are not in italics. That's why capitalize meaning words--Cauaco (talk) 17:41, February 24, 2015 (UTC)

Basta. Closing this thread as unproductive wasting of time. As you have been (repeatedly) told already, LW tend to follow MusicBrainz' & Wikipedia's national capitalization rules. Thus please, reread once more MB rules and then take one more look at samples on en:WP, es:WP and MB. If you decide that next to me they are also wrong, - try then to discuss that with WP & MB, not me. --Senvaikis (talk) 14:22, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

I show you what authority Spanish Royal Academy (not back covers or music pages NOT MY IMAGINATION) says, even when you take only what you want, mentioning Capitalizing but not using italics, that it's a must, againg, according to authority. With this, you have to undestand that you cannot ask me to write as you think it should be. Here's the reasons why--Cauac (talk) 15:51, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

The Memo you didn't receive?

Hi Senv
[1] & [2]. happy rever... editing! ((:-:)) --ES (talk) 13:20, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Additionally, Senv, If my marking out redalbs causes you to go fetch songs to Blue some of the links, then I think I have done a decent service by encouraging you to fetch lyrics. so Thank you for putting something useful on those empty shelves!

we both know how to read the time diff :)) --ES (talk) 13:27, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

No, ES, should sadden you - your current activity again brings more trouble than gain, and you are not so "green" to not understand this. Thus please, try to clean Category:Requests For Deletion by yourself: remove improper del. requests, if they don't conform current LW policy, or just delete pages otherwise.
And please, keep your sarcasm about timestamps for more suitable case: do you really think I'm so stupid to make remarks about bluelinks before creating these songs? No, - remarks were about bluelinks to albums and their imgs. Hiding links to existing albums and their cover imgs would remain a bad idea even if I haven't create any of those songs. I created them just to show you the faultiness of your activity. --Senvaikis (talk) 14:01, January 13, 2015 (UTC)


Hi. There's one artist here with duplicate pages. Enuff Z'Nuff and Enuff Z'nuff. I guess the first one is the correct, but don't have sure. Can you please use your bot to redirect to the one you consider the correct artist page? Thank you. Songsbr (talk) 20:27, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Agree with you, - thanks for good catch. done, --Senvaikis (talk) 21:32, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Trouble with an anon

Think you or another admin may want to look at this anon's recent contributions. They seem a bit trigger happy with the Disambig template. Patzilla777 (talk) 19:18, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Never mind, seems ES dealt with it. Patzilla777 (talk) 19:41, January 21, 2015 (UTC)


At home today, so I got some time, but can't stay in a sitting position too long… Ow, my back! Added ArtF.spotify, 0x2A is currently crawling through cat.
What do you think of this change re: which artist gets the prime slot? Is that what you had in mind as well? — 6×9 (Talk) 09:11, January 28, 2015 (UTC)

@Back: Skiing? ;) thx
@Docs: Let's say that's good enough imo, - at least it doesn't conflict with my understanding. You know - wording isn't my "speciallity" ;)
--Senvaikis (talk) 15:33, January 28, 2015 (UTC)

Lyrics Wiki Promotion

Hi there! My name is Jamie and I'm on Wikia's Community Development Team. We're in contact with a potential content sponsor about the possibility of debuting a series of relevant music videos on the Lyrics community and drawing eyes to your work here on Wikia.

Is this something you think you and your community would find interesting? If so, let me know and we'll do our best to provide you more details when we have them. Let me know by leaving a message on my talk page!

Jamie @fandom (profile)•(talk)


Hi! This is an error, see Discogs. Maybe is another Corrado, surely not this. --Dante81 (talk) 13:33, February 14, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing that - seems these tracks have been somehow "borrowed" from Corrado Izzo (release/126768).
Fixed now, - --Senvaikis (talk) 14:04, February 14, 2015 (UTC)
Ok, thank you. --Dante81 (talk) 23:23, February 14, 2015 (UTC)

Lwt copying wrong lyrics

Just wanted to let you know that I deleted the lyrics that Lwt added to the Pint Shot Riot:Punches, Kicks, Trenches & Swords page (compare with Youtube). Those were the lyrics of Lady Gaga's "Poker Face". The bot just copied the wrong lyrics that are written on all the other bad lyrics sites. Unfortunately I could not retrieve the proper lyrics, so I deleted the page.  · Lichtweber talk service  19:59, February 14, 2015 (UTC)

Thx for a fix & msg :) --Senvaikis (talk) 21:49, February 14, 2015 (UTC)

New Namespace?

Mornin, Senv,

just wanted to hear if it was possible to open up a new namespace for Vocaloids and what the conditions would be? (just checking, nothing to be done right now, 'cause the discussion's just about to start). Cheers,  · Lichtweber talk service  10:02, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

Any kind of my answer would be unfair attempt to arrogate the role of expert in this question, thus I'd better be fair - my knowledge here is infinitesimal, and considering my age, I hardly ever be ready to accept any software plugin product as an "artist". If current reality is so malformed that it can't be described without such "personages" - maybe some "virtual artist" type would make some sense, especially considering new possibilities, opened by DPL?
On the other hand - I'm not sure if we should strive to completely adopt LW to all the possible specific requirements of some narrow branches, like national/state/royal anthems, hymns & songs, animation personages, TV-serials, samples, vocaloids etc. Wouldn't it be better to leave that for other, particularly-dedicated sites?
In other words - I haven't any clear opinion yet... --Senvaikis (talk) 07:40, February 19, 2015 (UTC)


Hi. Which is the best way to add this artist T.P.E. here? Because the artist in the album is credited as T.P.E. Featuring Adam Marano. I don't know if the best is T.P.E. Featuring Adam Marano:Then Came You or T.P.E.:Then Came You and in the track I use fa=Adam Marano. In compilations appear as T.P.E. only. And about the name of the album, should be T.P.E. Featuring Adam Marano? Thank you. Songsbr (talk) 19:59, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

Let's start from the simplest things: first of all you should refrain from creating any page for a single "Then Came You" - it would go against LW policy, 'cause this single doesn't contain any song, unavailable on studio album.
Now about "T.P.E." vs "T.P.E. Featuring Adam Marano": if you ask me, wich is more suitable as albumartist, my answer would be - neither. What was "T.he P.hiladelphia E.xperiment"? It was the first Adam's project, containing... only one member: Adam Marano. So, how strange though it may sound, I'd titled this studio album as "Adam Marano:T.P.E. Featuring Adam Marano", with all songs attributed to the real performer, Adam Marano, without any fa's.
You may want to create redirs (TPE->AM) & ((TPE ft AM)->AM) for searchability reasons also.
--Senvaikis (talk) 08:23, February 19, 2015 (UTC)
(Butting in) --Wouldn't it be better to have them as "T.P.E.:T.P.E. Featuring Adam Marano" and use "alias=" in {{Song}} etc. to link it to Adam Marano, because T.P.E. is essentially an alias (like Makaveli is an alias for 2Pac)? Patzilla777 (talk) 12:34, February 19, 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. My plan was to created the artist page and the album, there's no plan to created a single page for Then Came You, but a song page (i have the lyrics), i just use the song as example. Yes, all the sources say that T.P.E is only Adam Marano. i think the option by Pattzila777 is good. Songsbr (talk) 13:17, February 19, 2015 (UTC)
Using alias would be fine, if not a confusing "...featured by AM" in the album title. Anyways, some confusion remains in both cases, so you are free to make your own choice :) --Senvaikis (talk) 13:32, February 19, 2015 (UTC)

Meta Bot?


I noticed you've been chasing my new pages adding meta I should probably be adding. Do you have a bot that does this? I really appreciate the help; if there's anything better I can do, please let me know. Trying to find all those IDs manually is taxing to me when my real focus is on the lyrics themselves.


F Batrico (talk) 21:23, February 22, 2015 (UTC)--Batrico (talk) 21:23, February 22, 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Batrico,
that's nice you've asked about that, 'cause actually my Lwt isn't a meta-dedicated bot. I was just trying to turn your attention to the fact, that creating a bunch of new artist pages without providing almost any reliable artist info is not a recommended practice on LW. Hope now you realized already that leaving such page totally lyricless, without any external links is not what LW admins are expecting from you :). That's especially actual for such cases, when page owner is ambiguous (Franke Lee certainly requires disambiguation imo)... That's why I'd recommend you to change your style of contribution from "horizontal" into "vertical", i.e. create a new artist page only after you finish your job with previous one. And I'm really glad to hear that your "... real focus is on the lyrics themselves" - just I'd like to see that "in action"... ;)
On the other hand, I find your contribution very solid and usefull, thus I'll be always ready & glad to help you, if needed. :Feel free to ask any question or help, -
Happy editing, --Senvaikis (talk) 21:58, February 22, 2015 (UTC)

Cool. I guess I'll just focus then on editing/adding lyrics pages only for awhile, since I didn't really know the community attitude/protocol on creating pages with less than complete info. Truth told, I just don't even know how to (quickly/easily) find all those discogs and musicbrainz, etc. links in the first place. I just found that I was able to write a set of scripts to rapidly add an album and find artist contact info, and I personally like having even a minimal artist page with track listings, even if there is no real contact or external links. But that's me.

I also have been meaning to script an album art maker to at least add that to albums I add, but since my current personal project is not focussed on entire albums, but instead playlists of songs for upcoming events, I really hadn't been giving the artist pages enough priority. Someone else here asked me to focus on artist contact info and hometown, and I thought that and at least one music source link was "enough" to satisfy; but you've been politely clear this is not the case.
please feel free to counsel me further if you see me transgressing community expectations; I freely admit I've not read much of the FAQ's, let alone the talks nd portals pages to see what the unwritten rules are. Frankly, I see so many contradictions to the written rules, anyway, it seems more like the active admins and community dictate by de facto, rather than written standards. Which is cool; that's what a wiki is about. I just want to be useful and give back as much as I've received the best way I can.

--Batrico (talk) 22:27, February 22, 2015 (UTC)


Good day

There are some new info and fixes to do on Laura Pausini's to make it up to date, on artist page,, and some of her albums' pages, dealing with misspelling, add tracks on regional editons, keeping style, adding correct type of album, locating properly new "Other Songs" and redirecting…

INSTEAD of missing time writing to you this sh, or bothering others, telling some one else what and where changes must go (job exchange is complicated and not working for this, 1/3 request)… even hearing nonsense insults like "your answer seem a parody" (pardon, of what?), I'M HERE TO MAKE LAURA PAUSINI'S WIKI LOOKS SO MUCH BETTER. Mission getting acomplished. Evidently, it looks so much better now, after me. I preffer to be improving Laura Pausini's that having contact with burocracy, ever.

So, if you're not going to make it, can u unblock those pages and let me do what I'm here to do? Or at least, please, could you correct the part of your edition on "San Siro 2007 (2007)" (and of course on Laura Pausini's) where you changed:

Deluxe Edition Bonus Track:
  1. Tra Te e Il Mare

Thus, as shown above, it is true and keeps style with all the rest of her albums.

Thanks for your help and good humor --Cauaco (talk) 03:02, February 23, 2015 (UTC)

  1. Laura Pausini pages are protected from editing by anonymous users only, so you were free to make all the changes by yourself, under your original account Cauac, without creating a new one - that wasn't a good idea to create multiple equivalent accounts on LW.
  2. Using {{OL}} is redundant for a single bonus track - use better a simple additional notation instead.
--Senvaikis (talk) 08:09, February 23, 2015 (UTC)

No, I can't, even when I'm logged in, it appears only "view source" instead of "edit" button. Cannot log in with previous account.--Cauaco (talk) 04:45, February 24, 2015 (UTC)

Your new account is not yet a member of "Autoconfirmed users" group. If you can't login with your previous account - try to solve a problem on Wikia Support page. --Senvaikis (talk) 06:05, February 24, 2015 (UTC)

If gold artist do it…

Good Day

I found: Bonus tracks found only on certain releases of the album may be separated from the main track list by a header created using the {{OL}} template. It says that list is up to 30 items, but nothing about that have to be more than one, as you're making up.

Where did you take it is redundant for one track from? Gold artisit Wild Flag uses it properly, seems, for adding one iTunes bonus, the same way I've done.

I had also added new version cover to artist page Laura Pausini, on 20 - Grandes Éxitos, I guess it was you who erased it from Artist page and send it only to album page. Also gold artist Porcupine Tree's Stupid Dream shows both covers on both album and artist page.

So, why don't you allow me to put that new version cover on artist page? Could you show me the lw documentation that proves I may not add more than one cover for album on artist page, or the one that says that if it is only one song, you have not to use {{OL}} template?


  • OL is designed for numbered lists with optional header and alternative starting track number. If albumb contains only one bonus track at the end of tracklist, it may be displayed properly using a simple additional notation, without using OL. You wonder why that's not documented? 'Cause it's self-evident, as well as not using OL for every other, ordinary tracks in album tracklist - that would be possible, and also isn't directly forbidden in lw docs ;).
  • A lot of albums have multiple rereleases, often with alternative tracklists and cover images. If we try to display all this alternative info on the artist page, it could become overcrowded, especially for such artists as LP. That's why artist page should contain only basic info about album, using album page for all the additional info.
--Senvaikis (talk) 13:15, February 28, 2015 (UTC)

Genres appearing on Categories

Good day

Laura Pausini has sung different genres, that appear on artistinfo template. If you have to choose only one for her, it is Pop. Far away should be second Rock, and there's not much difference for third genre, cause there're not many latin jazz, salsa and boleros songs.

Now, on the final square at the bottom of artist page (categories) only shows latin jazz, salsa and bolero. Out of my hands, is there a way to make, at least, Pop appeared on that square?

Thanks --Cauaco (talk) 05:42, February 28, 2015 (UTC)

Seems you've missed something again - categories list at the bottom of LP page contains all the genres, currently listed in ai.{{Genres}}: Pop, Rock, Latin Jazz, Salsa & Bolero
--Senvaikis (talk) 13:23, February 28, 2015 (UTC)

Not here. In Both Safari and Firefox, the bottom on Laura Pausini's artist page shows only Latin Jazz, Salsa & Bolero. NOT POP nor ROCK. Can you see all five on your machine?--Cauac (talk) 15:53, March 1, 2015 (UTC)
See LP on FF & Chrome --Senvaikis (talk) 06:05, March 2, 2015 (UTC)
P.S. This note is not for Cauac, but I thought it may be interesting for other users: if you have the same prob with some hidden categories, just go to your account preferences page, open the tab "Under the Hood" and check a checkbox, named "Show hidden categories". Then save your preferences. hth, --Senvaikis (talk) 09:11, March 2, 2015 (UTC)

Send Lwt for David Seville, please?

Hi Senv, I just batch moved Alvin And The Chipmunks to David Seville who actually is the human artist behind the fictitious characters. I wanted to ask you if you could please send Lwt to fix SongHeader of resp. song pages. (I'd go with David Seville as artist and Alvin and the Chipmunkls as alias). Thx in advance,  · Lichtweber talk service  18:37, February 28, 2015 (UTC)

done, --Senvaikis (talk) 20:33, February 28, 2015 (UTC)
Thanks a lot  · Lichtweber talk service  21:40, February 28, 2015 (UTC)

A convenient way for album track lists

Hello, yesterday I spotted a convenient way to display the track list of an album on the artist page. To be honest, I always dreamed about such a solution and never understood the duplicate work on the artist & album page. Granted, there may be exceptions where you would like to display more or less information on either of them (and would go with the present way), but for >95% of the cases this would simplify the Lyric wiki and reduce errors. As we are in a phase of transition, could this schema get adopted as an official way (within documentation) to do listings?

Greetings, --Fassbrause (talk) 13:26, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

Hi, FB,
You reminded me my initial irritation, caused by this duality, inevitably leading to unsynchronized info on artist and album pages. That's why I understand and share your dissatisfaction. I suppose that LWChris' T-Line project was inspired by the same dissatisfaction.
But the problem isn't as simple as it may look like at the first glance, mainly due to LW:Api limitations. Instead of long explanations - just take a look at api response to query for Philipp Poisel discography. I'm not sure, but maybe that was one of the main reasons why T-Line still remains in the state of project...
The same should be said about our documentation: sorry to say that, but strictly speaking, while lw:api is incompatible with such transition, this approach isn't 100% legitimate.
--Senvaikis (talk) 15:49, March 1, 2015 (UTC)
Okay, I almost knew it wasn't that easy and am surprised you were able to bear with it for such a long time Wink. Well, now that is the current status, what can be done to to solve the API problems? I guess Sean is/was the one in charge for the API? It's sad that he and Chris don't have much time for the Wiki anymore... I guess 6 times 9 next to you are the one who could have the technical expertise to find a solution? Can you make changes to said API to get a correct song list? I really would like to help, but I truly suck at that area. BTW: Some of the T-Line templates are quite nice, would love to see them added one day.
--Fassbrause (talk) 22:18, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

Bonus tracks found only on certain releases of the album may be separated from the main track list by a header created using the {{OL}} template

According to that really self-evident LW document, the edittions you have reverted on Laura Pausini's, were completely ok.

Where's the support of your reverts? Only in your imagination?

Evidently, copying the Gold artists format examples are more contundent that you have been.--Cauac (talk) 15:56, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

Leaving your account(s) blocking for other admins. No more comments. --Senvaikis (talk) 15:53, March 1, 2015 (UTC)


Hi. I just wanna know if in this artist Alaska it's necessary to add an compilation where only just her name appear in the cover, but almost every track (except one or two) are performed by bands that the singer was a member. I checked in Discogs, every compilation, her name is in title, but the tracks are performed by Alaska Y Los Pegamoides, Alaska Y Dinarama or Kaka De Luxe (the user who add the lyrics credited all to Alaska). Thanks. Songsbr (talk) 18:43, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

Hope you agree that this album hardly may be defined as a compilation by various artists: it contains songs, performed by the same artist Alaska, together with her band, regardless of the changes in band name and lineup. So, Alaska is definitely a legitimate albumartist for this release imo.
On the other hand, I'd recommend to include such compilation into artist page only if it contains some songs, unavailable on other studio (solo or band) albums.
--Senvaikis (talk) 19:31, March 1, 2015 (UTC)
OK. Thank you for the answer. Songsbr (talk) 19:49, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

Oliver! -> Lionel Bart

Hi Senv, another request for Lwt: I batch moved missatributed "Oliver! to Lionel Bart (author). Could you please send your bot to fix the song headers? Thanx in advance,  · Lichtweber talk service  20:39, March 3, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not shure what a fix should be done - are you speaking about simple "Oliver!" replacing by "Lionel Bart" in headers? --Senvaikis (talk) 22:01, March 3, 2015 (UTC)
Umm, yes. Not ok?  · Lichtweber talk service  15:04, March 4, 2015 (UTC)
"Performed by musical lyricist and composer" sounds much better compared to "performed by musical personage", but is still far from being perfect imo. Well, let it be as you wish :) --Senvaikis (talk) 15:23, March 4, 2015 (UTC)
I know, right? You know I have difficulties with this as well. Unfortunately I have no idea how to handle this except by introducing a new artist type, which isn't perfect either. Well, maybe there comes the day when one of us gets an epiphany ;) Thx  · Lichtweber talk service  15:58, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

done, though I still think that the final tuning of this page/subpages should be done by a human. Don't know about you, but construction "song Lionel Bart:Boy For Sale by Harry Secombe, performed by Lionel Bart" sounds a little weird to me...:) --Senvaikis (talk) 16:39, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

OK, I'll look into it these days. Thanks!  · Lichtweber talk service  20:12, March 4, 2015 (UTC)


Hi. I added this brazilian artist called Byafra some time ago here, but the two albums I added here I use Byafra. Before 1998, he used the name Biafra (I redirect Biafra to Byafra). This way I did is correct, or should I use Biafra in all albums before 1998 (using Byafra|alias=Biafra in the songs)? Thx. Songsbr (talk) 23:22, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

Formatting pages for artists with aliases may become a real pita for any editor. Yes, you are right - the most accurate approach would be posting all the albums of the artist on the same artist page (Byafra), using the aliases (Biafra) for songs & albums titles and adding according fields to their headers. So, album Despertar should be titled as "Biafra:Despertar (1981)", with ah.Artist=Byafra & ah.Alias=Biafra. Song "Leão Ferido" should be titled as "Biafra:Leão Ferido", (with sh.artist=Byafra, sh.alias=Biafra & sh.albumartist=Biafra).
But such approach has two drawbacks: First of all, it requires adding an additional albumartist parameters in songs headers and, what is worse, often it's just unrealizable for most songs, 'cause they may be performed under both (all) aliases. Thus I'd recommend to use "simplified" approach: use artist page title (Byafra) for titles of all albums and songs, adding alias info only to headers. You may want to create additional redirects for searchability reasons then (see Biafra or Biafra:Despertar (1981)).
--Senvaikis (talk) 07:08, March 5, 2015 (UTC)
I always get confused about the use of "alias". Thank you again for the help. Songsbr (talk) 13:37, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

Make consensus?

Hey Guy

You know I'm Cauac user, but I cannot wirte to you signed in. I'll try to sign from my account, but as soon as I sign in. my ip adreess gets blocked.

I'm wating for your answers yet, you admins have asked me to make consensus, but it's impossible if you don't say anything.

I show you some documentation, you show nothing, and pretend that I'm a vandalist with no support.

Please, gimme good reasons.-- 08:38, March 6, 2015 (UTC)

I have nothing to say in addition to what I've said already, patiently trying to refrain you from repeating the same violations of rules and the spirit of wiki. May say only that other admin is right - you'd consider yourself lucky, not being blocked for good. --Senvaikis (talk) 08:54, March 6, 2015 (UTC)

EAM Top-10 List

Lwt has made recently a new stock-taking of empty albums on LW. Sad stats, should say - 4564 empty albums...
Here's a top-10 list of users - Empty Album Makers (with me in 'honorable' 6th place...)
--Senvaikis (talk) 20:22, March 12, 2015 (UTC)
Wish I knew a satisfying way to deal with those albums. The only thing I've come up with (other than deletion) is to comment out the tracklist on both artist and album page, to at least keep search engines away; but we'd also have to add a note so another admin doesn't delete the album as blank (not everyone always checks edit mode first… me included). — 6×9 (Talk) 20:52, March 15, 2015 (UTC)
Strictly speaking, even such compromise solution hardly may be called "satisfying" in terms of our current policy ("no albums with incomplete tracklists"). I think we should think about some changes in our policy, - either:
  1. just allowing empty/incomplete/black tracklists, or
  2. allowing deletion of apparently hopeless-red albs,
    • with preliminary marking for deletion
    • with according category (and template) for such marking,
    • with strict criteria(s) for such categorizing (time being red etc...)
  3.  ???... (certainly there are more possible alternatives, maybe even including your new gun DPL?...)
nite, --Senvaikis (talk) 21:52, March 15, 2015 (UTC)
I do not like #1: for me as a user it's the worst when a site promises content which it cannot provide. But maybe this discussion helps? Rosses idea probably won't work, but maybe something similar could be done so that red links will be invisible for bots (search engines)? I think I'd like such a solution the most. · Lichtweber talk service  15:12, March 16, 2015 (UTC)

Does that mean you've tested this solution and it did work for you? Then I'm highly surprised, 'cause that's not a fresh idea, but we've been told it shouldn't work... Seems to me, that was LWChrist iirc. --Senvaikis (talk) 16:08, March 16, 2015 (UTC)

The __NOINDEX__ keyword should do that, in theory. But… just created a test page with it, and not only did it have no "noindex" metatag, its "keywords" and "description" metatags included both dummy songs I had added. So – nope. And even if it worked, in the long run we'd end up with lots of unindexed albums where lyrics were created but the magic word not removed.
I'm aware that commenting out is against current policy; the question is whether it's preferable over deletion for pages with human input (ext. links, credits, album art etc.). We could add a template above the hidden tracklist noting why it was commented out and how to restore it.
Not sure how dpl would be able to help; it can only fetch content from a page if that page exists. — 6×9 (Talk) 16:28, March 16, 2015 (UTC)
Preference over deletion doesn't legitimize commenting, while policy remains unchanged. We are in a strange and faulty situation now, when multiple editions, made by admins, de jure are current policy violations and may be reverted (quite rightly atm) by any user/bot. So, we just haven't any other choice imo: either these albums should be uncommented, or policy should be changed, legitimizing such commenting. --Senvaikis (talk) 18:45, March 16, 2015 (UTC)
OK, so let's take this to LW:DocUpd, right?  · Lichtweber talk service  18:58, March 16, 2015 (UTC)
So, do you know already some solution, limited just by some edit in docs? Does that mean that you have changed your mind and now agree with #1?
Should confess that I still don't like it, as the potential source for a new flood wave of attacks by "complete-discography-maniacs"... --Senvaikis (talk) 19:39, March 16, 2015 (UTC)
No, not for #1 but for 6s template solution that will hide red tracks. Might be a good thing with an educational side effect: users will see those notations and become more aware of the fact that complete red track albums are not our goal.  · Lichtweber talk service  20:13, March 16, 2015 (UTC)
P.S:: But if we should go for 6s solution I think we have to have a bot regularly check if those red tracks are sitll red ...  · Lichtweber talk service 
Nevertheless, that's de facto the same #1 and I definitely don't like it, at least in such primitive form. But that's only mho. --Senvaikis (talk) 20:34, March 16, 2015 (UTC)
Well, a visible (explaining) badge might have the effect that users subsequently refrain from creating all-red track lists - thus making a new rule about this obsolete one day. I think it's worth a try. At least until there's a better solution.  · Lichtweber talk service  15:16, March 18, 2015 (UTC)

Irv da Phenom

Why was Irv da Phenom's album 12 Days of FREESTYLES (2011) removed? It's an actual album that exists with the song titles exactly as they were listed. Ordizzle (talk) 14:24, March 13, 2015 (UTC)

You definitely should find some spare time for LW docs studies to realize that mentioned page just must have been deleted for several reasons:
  1. First of all, it was mistitled (correct title is "12 Days Of Freestyle", not "12 Days Of FREESTYLE"). Naturally, I could simply rename it, but
  2. album page was absolutely empty - all the song-links were wrong (leading to the same page - Irv Da Phenom). Hope you'll understand that after a brief study of LW:PN documentation, especially - section about Technical Restrictions. And even then I could fix your broken links, but
  3. album was absolutely lyricless. That was the most serious reason, why I decided just to delete this mistitled, misformatted, lyricless album instead of trying to fix it. Sorry, but LW is lyrics-, not discography-dedicated site.
  4. And the last note: please, start your messages from a new section, as I've done for you this time.
Happy editing (after studies), --Senvaikis (talk) 15:19, March 13, 2015 (UTC)

Anon who doesn't understand albums

Hey, Senv, I have an anon who seems to misunderstand how the albums on LW should work. Patzilla777 (talk) 17:00, March 29, 2015 (UTC)

Done-Red, thx --Senvaikis (talk) 18:17, March 29, 2015 (UTC)
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