2,054,160 Pages

A's & The's

Unexpected popularity of swapped lists (mb & iT) induced me to make one more list for hunters of mergeable artists. Enjoy! :)
--Senvaikis (talk) 13:51, April 3, 2013 (UTC)
I'll merge them but won't mark them. --ES (talk) 16:06, April 3, 2013 (UTC)
Merging (redirecting) itself is some kind of marking - via different colour of redir. links, so there's no need in any additional marking while merging... --Senvaikis (talk) 16:32, April 3, 2013 (UTC)
Unexpected Popularity? not! ;) I think The Rocking Chairs may belong on the list. --ES (talk) 05:00, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
Let me comment only your note about "The RC": it just couldn't appear on "The's" list, containing only artists with both versions of existing lw-pages. --Senvaikis (talk) 06:20, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
So can we expect other lists for missing The and A and extraneous The and A etc.?
All of these are subsets of misnamed/duplicate/variation artists, my favourite. --ES (talk) 06:27, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
Do you know any wise algorithm for such "extraneous" lists creating? :)--Senvaikis (talk) 06:37, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Hope this list may quench your thirst of dups & variations for a while... :)--Senvaikis (talk) 17:05, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Love it! Abidin Zainal! Now what about the CJK artists? The algorithm is easy to describe, you know it. A catch all case: take a list of all multi word artist names, generate a list of unique words from that (Mayall, Clapton, King, Cale etc.) then add the list of one word artists (Bernard, Bjork, Dale, Pink etc.) then look for prtial matches from the combined list. All artist pages containing Clapton, Mayall, Santana, King, Heat. If Chris could rewrite the api....
Can Lwt save a category listing to disk? the lw export command can only export 5k entries. You didn't describe how you generated those dupe lists...I'm all ears! great job indeed --ES (talk) 01:46, April 6, 2013 (UTC) Apparently I have nothing but questions!
Sorry for delay, though to be honest, I could answer at once - just you'd not like the answer, so I didn't want to hurry and tried to estimate the real possibilities for such algorithm implementation... Now can only affirm that my first estimation was right - you should ask someone else for such task realization. Sorry.
Lwt doesn't save any lists to disk directly, but it may be used to save simple lists to a disk via clipboard. Any list may be copied into a clipboard either as simple page-list (<CTRL-C>) or as csv-list of selected rows content (<CTRL-Shift-C>), usefull for Excell-imports. Both are available through contextual right-click pop-up menu also.
--Senvaikis (talk) 13:09, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
Just to be clear, Lwt only fetches 500 entries at a time correct? Clipboard is plenty good! --ES (talk) 13:23, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
Lwt is a cyborg, using its "driver" permissions, so when it works under its own (bot) account, - the limit is 5000 :). Don't know if you've noticed that some most popular queries may be run, "gluing" responses (see checkbox "Continue if possible") into one list... :) --Senvaikis (talk) 13:36, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
I have continue if possible checked, still only 500. I tried different artist related tasks, still only 500, the glue doesn't stick ;) --ES (talk) 14:48, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

See Querry limit, autostart processing, gluin' by process etc & gluin' without processing. Btw, hope now you'll realize, that one of early samples (oversized images task) also uses the same technique, just slightly modified - let's name it auto-gluing :)--Senvaikis (talk) 19:14, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

Hey Echo, I hope I got your "algorithm" right (it's a bit hard with "this list, that list, combined list" Wink). I understood this: you want to find all multi-word artists whose names contain at least one single-word artist. If this is right, here you go. Smile - Chris 20:58, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Chris, appreciate it. So where do I run that JScode, and what object do I point it at? As Senv said elsewhere on this page, I'm not as technically advanced as you guys; I need a few more hints ;) --ES (talk) 13:13, April 14, 2013 (UTC)


Thanks for the hint about tracking down artists, But my copy of Lwt doesn't have uWikifyer! Where is that tool hiding? ;) --ES (talk) 05:50, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

See Usage samples/Running uWikifyer.--Senvaikis (talk) 08:20, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Swan Arcade

Come on, man, not cool! How am I supposed to set up a new page if you delete the unfinished bits before I have time to finish them? --Lucius Voltaic (talk) 09:18, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Not cool, agree :). You aren't a novice here, thus hope I don't need to remind you LW docs. I've waited more than one day in hope you'll fix the page by yourself, then unsuccessfully tried to find at least some lyrics for empty albums, added by you, and only then deleted them. So, next time, before adding a new album section (with albumart), be sure you'll be able to provide a full tracklist for that album, and desirably - not absolutelly lyricless. That'd save you (and us, admins) a lot of time.
regards, --Senvaikis (talk) 10:06, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Birth Control - Alsatian

Hi. Thanks for the reminder about Birth Control:Alsatian (2003) and sorry I forgot it. Fixed it now. --Darknite47 11:26, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

Thx! --Senvaikis (talk) 11:54, April 8, 2013 (UTC)


Whatever would be my opinion about current ranking system, - if used, it should follow LW docs imo. So, according to current lw:pr policy, a declared watcher is mandatory condition for any page, ranked above Bronze. I don't know any other way of doing that, as creating a talk_page (with Info template etc). But remarkable part of ranked pages doesn't have neither watcher nor talk_page at all (see above)! Hope these "Silver" & "Golden" lists may be interesting for current (and future) wathers of ranked pages :) --Senvaikis (talk) 11:52, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

Seems that controlling interest in this bussiness belongs to our friend Ignor-the-ant - he's ranked 2314 pages starting from 01/01/2012, and 2267 (98%) of them don't have talk pages...--Senvaikis (talk) 07:54, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
Kvailių auksas comes to mind.--ES (talk) 14:21, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Ands & ampersands

Here's the list, containing next 100 targets for hunters of mergeables. --Senvaikis (talk) 06:34, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

duly noted!
Was going to ask, Can you supply an example of how I can search for pages containing any custom string (in page name or content) example <small></small> in artist page, or Feat. in page name. I'll be busy till next srpring ;) --ES (talk) 06:48, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
Unfortunatelly, current Lwt version doesn't support such search. Can't promise that'll be soon, but I'll try to look at lwapi docs to find something suitable for such functionality, - it'd be usefull indeed.--Senvaikis (talk) 07:11, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
Bad news - lwapi does have function "list=search", wich would be ideal for this task, but's disabled on LW. You may try to ask wiki stuff if it's possible to enable it, or bump 6 or lwc for that ;) --Senvaikis (talk) 07:35, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
I doubt I'd have any more luck with Wikia sysops than either of you; with our millions of pages it'd probably kill their servers. Though maybe they'd agree to allow at least title search for admins. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:18, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
If any success is possible at all (I doubt too, for the same reason), - you have more chances to reach it: your English is perfect compared to mine and technical knowledgge is better than Echos' (take it easy, ES :)). Hope they'll not kill you for just asking :) --Senvaikis (talk) 18:33, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Colonless Songs

You did catch one of those today. I caught one yesterday; Torpedo by Non Servium. Of course after moving it to Non Servium:Torpedo, 7 songs by Torpedo appeared out of oblivion (Homeless songs?) and Janitor took care of it. So the point is.. we need to find all colonless songs hiding in C:Songs. Any bright ideas? --ES (talk) 16:01, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

While we haven't any news from 6 about enabled search, - there is only one possibility: running through entire C:Song, checking titles and filtering only colonless ones. Quite tiresome job, should say... It could be attached as a secondary task for some other song-wide job in the future, I think; just we should keep it in mind :) --Senvaikis (talk) 16:33, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
If you show me how, I'll do it, shouldn't take more than a weekend? I have two computers, one dedicated to Lwt. --ES (talk) 16:42, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
Mission impossible: as I've mentioned already, Lwt doesn't have built-in tunable search/filtering functionality. But seems I should better think about adding it... ;) --Senvaikis (talk) 17:18, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
Wonderful! And let me emphasize; every request I had and will have of you, I am willing to accompolish myself; all I expect is a little shot of Jing, no more! --ES (talk) 17:29, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
Woohoo! Working Mojo! --ES (talk) 04:54, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
I know you'd better like to get a fishing rod instead of fish, but making a new Lwt version, adapted for you, would take too much my time, - so I've chose the easiest way - just made desired Colonless_Songs list for a while (it took ~ 30 min to run).
But sooner or later filtering will be added to built-in Lwt queries - promise :) --Senvaikis (talk) 05:03, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
Or we could just include a colon check in SF. Along with fixing search links for song collabs. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:24, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Admin Review!

Senv, when you have a minute, can you please check the AF params in Danger Mouse And Sparklehorse and tell me if they are ok, and if not, what should be done about them?
Obviously this is just as an example of one asppect of collaboration works; The case when both artists have their own page, so the collab artist page may be considered redundant.
tia --ES (talk) 21:28, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
Seems we've been talking about that already, thus some my reasonings may be repeated - then just sweep aside them.
  • First of all - about the term "collaboration". You say that collab page is redundant, when both (all) artists have their own pages. Let me disagree. I understand LW object "collaboration" as construct, containing known artists, when most or even all of them may have their own page. Otherwise it would be just a new trivial LW artist (duo/band). So, when DM & SH are joining to release some album(s), I have no other choice but creating a new collab page, treated later by LW as a new "artist", 'cause current LW album page concept requires single AH.Artist parameter. That's one of the main differences between LW and such discography-oriented DB as mb, dog or amg. Exception - iTunes, also having such construct as "collaboration", but we'll talk about that later.
    • Resuming - I don't think "DM And SH" collaboration page is redundant (until LW concept wasn't changed).
  • Now about AF. Good or bad, but I'm some kind of programmer, ergo - I prefere working only with well-defined objects, which may be described by strictly structured and unambiguous set of methods and properties. Looking at this AF from this point of view, you should agree - it's far from being such an object, even more - it just can't be filled-in without violating logical requirements of my semi-silicon mind. Why? Strictly speaking, this AF parameters should lead us to pages of collaboration "DM&SH" on external sites. But, as was already said, such pages don't exist on most of our ext. sources! That's why you replaced them by links to the external pages of tis collab release, in other words - now they are a properties of object "LW.AlbumFooter", not "LW.ArtistFooter". In addition, they are redundant here, as being used already on their legitimate container - album page. Strictly speaking, only AF.iT wouldn't break such logics, 'cause iT also have such object as "collaboration", so it could be used here... if it used to work ;) Don't know how it looks like on your box, but my FF (and comp) got absolutelly crazy, falling into infinite unbreakable loop of opening new and new empty tabs... It wasn't easy to stop that even with Task Manager...
    • Resume: AF.fLetter is the only one parameter I'd leave here (until LW concept and {{ITunes}} weren't changed).
As always, traditional final note: that's only my humble opinion ;) --Senvaikis (talk) 07:39, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
Agree on every point! I shouldn't need to jury rig the CollabAF params to make them work on my machine, which sends your, and most other people's machine into a loop. My aim is to change the concept of Collaborations at lw. A collaboration is a release by two or more artists, we are gaining no advantage by treating this joint venture as yet another artist, the legitimate container is the album page. So if 6 creates the new collab album header, so it has individual links to each of the artists, all should be fine.
Then we can list the collab album on each individual artist page. The Alb.footer params would link to external sites correctly.
If the concept is changed at lw, we can reduce the number of artist pages further, the collab album pages stay with bit of a Alb.Header tweak, and we can have a bit more peace and order in da Haus!
You have noticed that all the Collab albums that were edited years ago and have footer params, those params are useless and get nowhere. The current state of collabs is not useful to anyone!
Thanks for your input, humble or not, it makes sense and it works ;) --ES (talk) 09:25, April 10, 2013 (UTC)


Here's the list of 132 all-caps-titled artists, - possible pretenders to be merged.--Senvaikis (talk) 07:15, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
So all the the work/dupe lists are now listed at User:Senvaikis/Stat? --ES (talk) 13:16, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, their location wasn't chaged - just links collected in one place. --Senvaikis (talk) 13:58, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Statistical Trivia

  • 90,000 artists @ Metal Archives: [1] Curious as to the numbers at other ref sites... --ES (talk) 06:32, April 12, 2013 (UTC)
  • 745,412 @ mb --Senvaikis (talk) 09:04, April 12, 2013 (UTC)
  • 7,746 @ pa --Senvaikis (talk) 09:15, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

Translating Y, E, و to English?

I notice that some of these Hispanic, Portuguese bands have album covers with &/And in addition to Y, E. I wonder if it may be a good idea to have a policy on this (translate the E, Y to English) or go with majority of existing covers. Our refrence sites sometimes contradict each other. Any thoughts? --ES (talk) 17:51, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Don't think that partial autotranslating or even promoting such "translation" into a policy would be a good idea. Just tried to imagine such policy applied to Lithuanian names - brrrrr!:).
Yes, external sources contradict each other, more over - even official sites of artists often contradict to albumcover info. And even albumcovers may not keep the same style, changing from "e/y" on early albums to "&" later or returning to "e/y" again. That's why I'm trying to look at the version, mostly used on the covers of the latest releases. Good or bad, but any choice is better compared to existing of dupped artists pages imo :)
--Senvaikis (talk) 18:33, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
I threw in the 'و' as a joke ;) I am not advocating an international policy, just that the hispanic/portuguese artists have a large market/representation in the English speaking world, hence the flip flop on y/e/&/and, which will cause us to flip flop.
I would seriously advocate using just Y/E and ignore all translations, just to satisfy the native speakers who will be the majority of users/editors of such pages. Certainly we can't leave things the way they are.

btw: are you leaving däs und for chris & 6, or is that the next one coming up? --ES (talk) 19:15, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Should I understand the last question as gentle reminder to be more productive? I promise to mend... ;) --Senvaikis (talk) 19:45, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
Heck no! As you notice I am still going thru the remnants of the Swapped ArtistNames (iTunes). It was just to tease 6 & Chris over the und/and issue! --ES (talk) 19:50, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
Requested list is empty, as it should've been expected :) --Senvaikis (talk) 20:16, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
Are you saying that we have no und artist?! The Spanish & Portuguese could learn a lesson from the Germans then...:) --ES (talk) 20:33, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
No, I just claim we have no "und" artists with existing (non-redirs) "&"-dupes :) --Senvaikis (talk) 20:42, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Ranking #2

As some of you have possibly noticed, lately Lwt was running some kind of ranked pages inventory, trying to synchronize page content with ranking-info, where possible, but as was mentioned already, remarkable part (up to ~50%) of ranked pages still are "talkless", ie - a target for such synch doesn't exist. In principle, Lwt could create missing ranking-info-pages for such talkless pages, at least for Bronze ones (pages above bronze need a watcher, thus Lwt can't completely fill-in them). Now, when this job is drawing to closing, I have some questions for all experts of ranking:
  1. is ranking-info page (talk-page) mandatory for all ranked pages? (it's obvious for silver and gold, but what about bronze?)
  2. if yes - should Lwt create a missing talk-pages for bronze pages then?
  3. should it do the same for silver & gold pages, or downgrade them (as unwatched &/or uncertified)?
  4. is watcher mandatory even for bronze albums (contrary to artists & songs), and if it is - why?
  5. am I right supposing that only watcher is mandatory for silver, and only gold song requires both {{Watcher}} & {{Cert}}? Shouldn't I change my mind reading Lw:PR/S then?
  6. should be page downgraded, if it doesn't meet at least one PR requirement? (a few would remain undowngraded...)
  7. And the final (multi)question: who can explain me the raison d'etre of these ranking-info templates at all? What additional info do they carry? Why should they be filled-in manualy, without adding almost any additional info and without any mechanism of its(synch) checking? And what dividends do they pay for all the efforts of supporting them after all? And can't the same (or better) result be achieved by transclusion, f.e.? In other words - does such Lwt's inventory/synch job have any sence at all? :)
TIA, --Senvaikis (talk) 11:24, April 15, 2013 (UTC)
Transcluded/automated ranking will sweep the NKVDish burecratic mess of ranking into the dust bin. Pages can be ranked without direct human intervention up to Silver (and I bet Lwt will turn out the legitamte ranking king).
Putting our contributores thru the hassle of studying the murky ranking documentation, most of whom consider lw a mere lyric site, is a burden they can do without. Humans are best left to verifying the lyrics, no bot/template can go there.
For the case of song/album credits for Gold (as 6 mentioned) we need a well designed Credits templates, and a few have already been designed which could be a starting point.
Currently the human applied ranking is merely a way for editors to distinguish their likes per facebook etc.--ES (talk) 14:22, April 15, 2013 (UTC)
  1. No.
  2. Wouldn't hurt anyway -- less work for human editors.
  3. Downgrade. If they're being watched, likely some editor just forgot the talk page and will fix it; if not they have no business being ranked Ag/Au.
  4. Nope, just another doc that wasn't updated.
  5. Yes, you're right. What's listed under Ag heading is requirements to advance past Ag, not requirements for Ag.
  6. I think I answered that with #3?
  7. PR came before variables, transclusion wouldn't have done any good then. IIRC Automated Page Ranking was one of the slogans with which I got Sean to install variables extension, but there seemed to be little interest -- reducing redundancy between headers & footers was what won everyone over. — 6×9 (Talk) 17:55, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Stats on black link artists & albums?

starting point: 植松伸夫 (Nobuo Uematsu) Wink --ES (talk) 19:42, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Got a wise algorithm? Wink --Senvaikis (talk) 07:41, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
done, see Black Albums list. Strictly speaking, it's not absolutelly "black" - in addition to albs with plaintext tracklists it contains also other kinds of songless albs (as Nat King Cole:The Billy May Sessions (1961) or Citizen Cope:The Clarence Greenwood Recordings (2004). --Senvaikis (talk) 16:37, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
I hear ya! Just recoverd The Devil Wears Prada:Patterns Of The Horizon (2005) from the lot; plain bad tracklist formation, was a nest of colonless songs!
I'll go thru them and check, I imagine some are candidates for the chopping block. The two you noted obviously are just malformed and keepers. Most of 植松伸夫 (Nobuo Uematsu)'s page is just junk, including the black track albums. Thanks!
Next? Lwt Featuring songs containg ft./feat./featuring (in every language in songname? lol) I'd love to know how many of those we have...
then..Lwt Featuring artist pages with album listing missing tl|aa --ES (talk) 17:04, April 16, 2013 (UTC) you wish I hadn't returned!
  1. done, see Featured Songs list, en-only ;)
  2. "..featuring artist pages with album listing missing tl|aa"- what's that, sry?
--Senvaikis (talk) 18:31, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
Oops! I mean Artist pages that do have one or more albums listed in them, but the Album Art template(s) are not present. Actual album pages may or may not exist.
Essentially if you can find all artist pages that do not have Album Art template on them, they are either artists with only OS (good for tl|split), or they are artists with album but no Album Art template, yet another work category.
Of course if possible, testing each album listing on an artist page for the existance of album art template would be super, but I may be pushing it ;) --ES (talk) 19:06, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, but such tasks just can't be stuffed into a single Lwt filtered query, whatever it were advanced... I'm afraid you need Chris' help again... ;) --Senvaikis (talk) 19:29, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
PS: just thought it may be more clear to you, if I try to explain how these lists were made. So, FS list filtered all songs with titles, matching regexp pattern "\b(ft|feat|featuring)\.?\b". BA list filtered all albums with content, having no "'*\s*\[\[\s*.+?:.+?\]\]"-matches. Don't know if that made things clearer, but at least I've tried... :)
nite, --Senvaikis (talk) 19:51, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
What are "black albums"? - Chris 22:14, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
Ah I see - "Artist pages that do have one or more albums listed in them, but the Album Art template(s) are not present". Does that mean "none" or "not all"? "None" could be easy, "not all" is more difficult and maybe not failsafe, because the qnd method would rely on counting if an algorithm can be achieved at all.
@Senv: please keep in mind that lists like this one are not generated by a program but manually by logging in as Botanic and then performing manual requests. I currently do not have the time to build a programm around the queries that deals with the HTTP requests. I simply downloaded all the artists, then used Notepad++ to filter the lists and only then used a short VB program to generate the output lists. All other things (HTML representation with pagination and so on) are handwritten, not generated Wink. - Chris 22:26, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Chris for jumpin in while Senv is taking a well deserved nap :) Take a look at Beanie Sigel, albums listed on page, but no album art template present, that is one type of target I'm looking for. Any Artist page with no album art in general is a worthy target (others will be only OS Artists, add tl|split). Black album means albums like 植松伸夫 (Nobuo Uematsu):All Sounds Of Final Fantasy I-II (1989), a true abomination! Senv went one step further and generated this list User:Lwt/BlackAlbums --ES (talk) 00:18, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
Okay, a list for artist pages w/o any {{AlbumArt}} is on its way. Will take a little while, because homework for uni goes first. I'll notify you here when it's done. - Chris 16:36, April 17, 2013 (UTC) P.S.: Do you think we need some extra page for Admin Cooperations like these? Ideally one that all admins watch, but it'll not spam an admin's talkpage.
There are two reasons why I don't think you should waste your time making such list, Chris. First of all, - it may be just now easily made by Lwt. The second reason - enormous size of such simple list of coverless artists would make it useless imo. Just now made a query, checking artists up to "B" - it returned over 4500 items :). --Senvaikis (talk) 18:14, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
Here's the list of artists, having at least one album, declared on page (regardless of album page existence), but not having any tl|aa. Hope it may be more usefull, being much shorter and having more info --Senvaikis (talk) 20:35, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Featured Songs, 2nd run please

As usual lack of clarity was on my part! Featured Songs list is too short. We need all of the following matched:

  • Featuring/featuring/Feat./Feat/feat/feat./Ft./Ft/ft./ft

(brrrrr.!) --ES (talk) 06:32, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Oops! That's not your fault - it was obvious that regexp should be case-insensitive, but it wasn't initially, - I noticed that (and lack of "ft" part) yesterday, and even made a new list, - just forgot to publish it. Now it's unreachable for me, but I hope to recreate it soon. Sorry. Be ready to see muuuch longer list.... :)--Senvaikis (talk) 07:23, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
done Tell me if you wanted to shorten this list, splitting it into 2 separate lists (for artists & songs). --Senvaikis (talk) 07:51, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
Sure I 'd rather have Songs & artists in seperate lists... also...
There is with too!
and then there are maladied page names like Krayzie Bone:Silence(& Quot;featuring Graveyard Shift & Quot;) & Lemmy Kilmister:Back In The USSR (feat. John…, hopefully much shorter lists. tia! --ES (talk) 07:54, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
FA list & FS list - done
Do you really want to include "with" into this filter pattern? That may produce remarkably longer lists, containing a lot of unfeatured artists & songs...
And as usual, - please "extend" your definition of "maladied page" :)--Senvaikis (talk) 08:25, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Excellent job Senv!

  • With: I realize that there are legitimate withs as part of many song names, but as I saw in Josh Groban:
  1. Josh Groban:Lullaby (With Ladysmith Black Mambazo)
  2. Josh Groban:Machine (With Herbie Hancock)
  3. Josh Groban:Somewhere (With Charlotte Church)
so maybe search for (with and (With to begin with?
  • Maladied: Any page with:
  1. Quot <-- some valid ones will be caught
  2. ;<--I have seen one instance of valid semicolon in a song name
  3. â€<-- even with valid instances, there can't be a huge number of this one
  4. ¦ <-- certainly illegal

I think those were the result of bad bot imports. And another one is all songs ending in a dot/period! Valid ones exist, but most of them are illegal and duplicates of valid dot less song pages, I came across a bunch of them again yesterday.

So the FS list you generated comes down to 1/1000 of the entire inventory, ouch! Can Lwt help?! thanks again! --ES (talk) 09:36, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

@FS: I think the most usefull approach would be a separate list of (with-ed songs.
done, see WS list (de,en,es,fr,pt).
@maladies: Now got the meaning of the term, though its origin still remains unclear :). Should I take into account your location (Canada-French-malade-sick)? Anyways, I need to do some research - maybe ASCII codes may be used for filtering...) But hope now you've got more than enough job with a current lists - so I got some time... ;)

--Senvaikis (talk) 10:21, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

@Dot-ended: done; that one is extra-large, - too large to be published here in the same lw-link-list format. You may download it here. --Senvaikis (talk) 12:59, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
@Maladies: done - Artists, Albums & Songs--Senvaikis (talk) 09:54, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
Just saw your latest lists, so it turns out that the largest malady is the dotted songpages (1963)...twice as many as featured songs...
I'll work thru all artist maladies first. Thanks again! --ES (talk) 09:58, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
Uuml, only one showed in artist maladies followed by a semicolon. Something to look for in the next run. --ES (talk) 15:07, April 19, 2013 (UTC) run looking for what? If just semicolon - there are only 3 matces, all captured on the first run... --Senvaikis (talk) 15:33, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
Looking for Uuml. It's the malformed version of ü. What else? I don't know right now. All the malformed version of accented charcters? Next run maybe in a few days or weeks!
Another issue with accents; we still have some lyric pages with bad accents. Is it ok If I run songproc over spanish/portuguese/polish? tia. --ES (talk) 15:42, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
  • uuml: it was the only one also... (you may find more accents in albs or songs, as fragments like "&Number###;)
  • accents: first, I don't think SongProc (or any other sub) may help here; second - according to Category:Requests For Edits, C:AC/es is empty, as well as /pt, /pl etc... Got any info they are lying?--Senvaikis (talk) 18:50, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
Bad accent in lyrics: [2] (as you said with ###). I bet there are more of those.
Uuml: your patten wasn't specifically looking for Uuml, I thought the pattern caught that because of the following semicolon.
Other issues in Artist pages: explicit file links! [File: I caught Gloc-9 last night from your Malady list. The other I had mentioned earlier is <small></small> --ES (talk) 19:18, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
In the old days I used the bot to specifically fix polish/spanish/portuguese accent problems...
  • accents: given sample features not a bad accents, - just html-encoded, and this issue may be catched & fixed, imo. Really bad accents (incorrectly encoded ones) may be fixed either manually (language knowledge needed) or just reuploading the lyrics. The second approach was only one acceptable for me, when I used to clean these acs categories ;)
  • Files & smalls - both done.
nite, --Senvaikis (talk) 20:10, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
I made you a whole lot of work, didn't I?!
damn! I was sure that's me who makes a lot of work for you... Basta - no more lists! :) (senv)
two more things to look for:
  1. :: double colon songs - done
  2. : colon space songs - done
graet job! Hope you get enough snooker to compensate :) --ES (talk) 16:17, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Artist and Subpages not matching

Thanks for the aa avalanche Senv. Another issue that may need a list: Organismen has many pages within listed under Organism 12. Any chance you can make list of artists pages with this malady? :) tia --ES (talk) 06:03, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

Later may be, - pro tem you may take a look at Usage samples/Redirs & Caps fixing on artist page - not exactly what you asked, but hope may be usefull. --Senvaikis (talk) 07:32, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
thanks! --ES (talk) 07:44, April 19, 2013 (UTC)


Why did you remove those pages? I know they're not real (like Knuckles the Echidna), so what's the deal? --Tentomon22 (talk) 13:29, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

Hope Es has explained quite well all the reasons of this deletion to you, while I was watching snooker :).
cheers, --Senvaikis (talk) 17:40, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

I noticed the Do Not Disturb sign :)

Batch move to correct Capitalization

Senv, is there a way to batch move incorrectly capped pages of one artist? see Kabanos. tia --ES (talk) 18:34, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

See UG/IniCaps checking/fixing. (Don't forget to apply previous sample (Redirs & Caps fixing on artist page) after that :) --Senvaikis (talk) 19:10, April 24, 2013 (UTC)
I'd rather fix the artist page caps first! Unfortunetly the artist page redirs fix of Lwt doesn't seem to work for me, I'll try it again next opportunity... thx! --ES (talk) 19:40, April 24, 2013 (UTC)
You just can't mechanically fix inicaps of all links on artists page without making needed redirs before - that'd only lead to additional redlinks on the page and additional orphaned (mistitled) pages. --Senvaikis (talk) 19:50, April 24, 2013 (UTC)
I manually fix the artist page first, which causes red links to show on artist page, true. Then Lwt moves the pages, which makes the redlinks disappear. --ES (talk) 19:58, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

The Secret Violet Society

Looks like you found it! ;)--ES (talk) 09:52, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

This part of society was well-known since time immemorial ;) The beast of job here - such pages may be be fixed by bot in only one, donkeywork-way (reuploading correctly encoded lyrics)... --Senvaikis (talk) 10:12, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
I looked up one of the songs from your fetched list Lux Occulta:Tworzenie, and every other lyric site that I checked (including a Polish one!!) has the accents mangled too. Turns out not only the content is junk, but so is the attribution!

--ES (talk) 10:47, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

Just another interseting tidbit about the illegitimate memebers of the violet society, see KINYA:AERIAL, it was mislabeled! I think I will go through the Violet songs category and visually inspect them, certainly the CJK ones.

PS. Noticed your detective work with Lux Occulta, well done! --ES (talk) 04:15, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

User Contributed Maladies

Senv, just as I thought you had every possible malady nailed down, I came across this: Wir! I'm not touching it till I hear from you. --ES (talk) 10:55, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

If the question is about making a separate page for "Wir" - formally it's legitimate, but I'd returned this (only one!) studio album (with corresponding comments, if needed) to its proper place... As always - that was only senv's ho :)--Senvaikis (talk) 11:18, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
I think there are at leaset 3 of those ho's (if not more) in the Admin sector ;)
Hopefully there are not many examples like it. --ES (talk) 04:19, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

Lwt's Arsenal

Senv can you please give me a hint about Lil Wayne, (OS=335!) with almost entire discography listed on page. What does Lwt offer to save me a week of detective work? And if some of those songs turn out to be unredirectable, what should I do next? --ES (talk) 04:24, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

Lwt doesn't offer any magic tools in addition to mentioned already UG/Fixing OS. Not all tasks may be done by bot; this one certainly requires serious (versed) human intervention. Unfortunatelly, next to 6 I'm not a big expert in Lil Wayne discography also, - sry.

Another type of Malady

飛輪海 (Fahrenheit), like Gorgoroth, which I stumbled upon thru one of it's maladied albums. tia --ES (talk) 10:55, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Have you seen the Gorgoroth's desire?--Senvaikis (talk) 11:39, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
What's good for the gander, is good for the goose moose! ;) Have you seen their Metal Archive pages, and the lyrics we have submitted by submitters? No doubt if it is deemed necessary 6's fav GRU eliminator will give those pages a visit. --ES (talk) 17:49, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
I don't think that's a GRU's issue - it's more about our respect for the will, expressed by the authors of songs (if such desire has been expressed indeed). --Senvaikis (talk) 19:09, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
My concern is the tracklists, not the lyrics. Similar to 飛輪海 (Fahrenheit). If anything needs elimination out of respect for a band member, it's the lyrics, I guess. --ES (talk) 19:17, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
Gotta love these lyrics ;-) Maybe G have relaxed their stance somewhat, at least two songs are now licensed through GN. If the anonymous user is correct though I distrust anyone who shouts the objecting member is no longer with the band… — 6×9 (Talk) 19:39, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
At this point, it seems if any G lyrics need to be taken down, it will have to be thru the merciless GN-TD procedure, but given that GN has supplied G lyrics... I say we show mercy and let the lbl deal with GN. --ES (talk) 20:06, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

More file deletions

Senv, can you parse through all file deletions and filter out those with comment="Violation of Wikia's Terms of Use"? Because it looks like Sannse isn't the only perpetrator, and it'd be good to know who else to keep an eye on. Thanks! — 6×9 (Talk) 15:00, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

That's strange, - Lwt returned only 8 matches, meeting given RC query filter, though I'm pretty sure there should be are much more. Should research this mismatch (any idea?), but for a while - here those 8:
Image Deleter Date
File:Barathrum - Okkult.jpg Sannse 2013-03-26T00:41:10Z
File:Archer Prewitt - Wilderness.jpg Sarah Manley 2013-03-15T18:43:57Z
File:Schneewittchen - Schneewittchen.jpg Sarah Manley 2013-03-15T18:43:55Z
File:PigDestroyer - Terrifyer.jpg Sarah Manley 2013-03-15T18:43:37Z
File:Roxy Music - Country Life.jpg Sarah Manley 2013-03-15T18:37:20Z
File:Deströyer 666 - ...Of Wolves, Women & War.jpg Sannse 2013-03-14T18:46:07Z
File:Disgorge (Mexico) - Forensick.jpg Sannse 2013-03-08T23:53:09Z
File:Disgorge (Mexico) - Chronic Corpora Infest.jpg Sannse 2013-03-08T23:53:07Z
It is possible that this is similar to UserBot's zero edit history despite the fact that it has a large contrib record. --ES (talk) 19:20, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
An age limit maybe? The above were all within the last 3 months, Sannse's next-older deletion was Jan 30. — 6×9 (Talk) 19:26, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
More like #1 (RC check time-scope was taken from 2011). --Senvaikis (talk) 19:42, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

PN & your neighbourhood

Shouldn't Brainstorm (LV) be moved to Prāta Vētra (Brainstorm)? tia--ES (talk) 17:30, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

Don't think so.--Senvaikis (talk) 18:54, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

Video versus "embedded youtube"

Per chance, can you explain *where* this is even documented? I see no less than 2 different GUI elements that presume to embed video - at the top of this edit box, and to the right, both shaped like film clips.

I see *zero* options for "embedded youtube" only "video".

If you want people to use this "embedded youtube" *make something visible for it*.

Otherwise this will become a broken record as people attempt to do exactly what I just did. Mystica555 (talk) 13:12, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

And it would appear that Wikia proper has a link ; calls it "less versatile" ; and it doesn't even match the syntax you used to edit my video.

Seriously, where is the *useful* documentation on this? Mystica555 (talk) 13:49, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Mystica,
here's "something visible" for you (and obligatory to follow for every LW editor):
Let me know if even after reading above docs you still have some questions.
hth, --Senvaikis (talk) 15:52, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I still have questions. This obligatory documentation doesn't present the Youtube embed in an intuitive manner. By the time I've trudged through all the mundanity, it exists in some place I'd never figure to look: "badges". I want to put a video on a page not a badge. I'm not a long-time Wikier. WTF is a badge? Isn't that what Wikia gives me for doing things?
Now, yes, 'ctrl-f video' or 'ctrl-f youtube' would work for this on that page...if I had any idea that there was anything different from the 2 always-visible "video" 'add features and media' buttons. This is simply not intuitive.
Further, I have attempted to find where it is stated that following every single subsection of the help, as 'obligatory'. I see no terms and conditions stating this, I see no "Please follow all guidelines" banner on an edit page, not on the Help:FAQ list, nothing. I also do not see anything NEGATING the use of the 2 prominently visible Video buttons.
If you are going to attempt to impart blame on me for not following what is 'obligatory', first I would like some proof, and further, VISIBILITY, of this obligation, ideally *while editing*. Second I would expect that if this embedded youtube template was *required* that there also be documented dissuasion of the most prevalent method of embedding a Youtube Video.
So, where is this obligation found? Is it only implied? If simply implied, you cannot expect it to be enforceable. If it is not only implied, and has documentation somewhere, how far do you expect me to drill-down to find this obligation? Wikia's TOS doesn't appear to explicitly mandate that individual sub-wikis' guidelines be explicitly followed either.
Which brings me to the end of this: why exactly can't there be something more prominent within the edit page, complimenting or replacing the "Video" "Add features and media" list on the edit page which explains "You might want to try this other YouTube thing, instead of the most visible and intuitive button."?
Perhaps within the default template for a new song, present this apparently hard-to-find syntax as boilerplate code - just like the lyrics tag, the song title tag, the footer. This would have preempted our entire discussion. Mystica555 (talk) 09:26, May 8, 2013 (UTC)
I'm always ready to bring my apologies for everything what makes you so unhappy, - even when you are complaining about some things I'm unhappy too (being unable to change them). I bring my apologies for blaming you also, though was naively sure it was just friendly attempt to help you.
And finally, one more, anticipatory apology for my last advice: avoid any activity, making you so unhappy, and maybe you become more friendly. --Senvaikis (talk) 11:44, May 8, 2013 (UTC)


[3], happens on CollabAlbs hth --ES (talk) 05:19, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Oops... Thanks, es! --Senvaikis (talk) 05:24, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Waah! ;) [4]

And would you throw me a Jing example (you may already have) on how to fix Song Header Artist, when it doesn't match namespace. I see you've been very busy with the recent lwt updates! tia --ES (talk) 17:24, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Maladies & Rabbit Holes

New searches for Lwt!

  1. All pages ending in colon or colon space. see Styles P:.
  2. Albums with (????) in year
  3. Oblivion/Rabbit Holes: Artist pages that were redirected but the linked songs/albums were not moved. La Quinta Estación was redirected in 2008, linked pages got moved today... tia --ES (talk) 20:33, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
Not now, sry, - gonna be a busy weekend, with pleasures of higher priority... :)
Take a rest too, es! ;) --Senvaikis (talk) 20:55, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
No rush Senv, we have till 2020 :) enjoy the weekend! --ES (talk) 20:58, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
2: Category:Albums released in ????6×9 (Talk) 21:40, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, that was easy! So where is Category:Pages in Oblivion :)) --ES (talk) 21:50, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
this heretofore unlisted malady just popped into view Legião Urbana...--ES (talk) 17:46, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
More Ã's for easy start... --Senvaikis (talk) 20:18, May 14, 2013 (UTC)done

Grand Duchy/Albums

Help! I just created ^ this ^ page and I forgot the "no transclusion" (?) trick to keep pages with Album List references to it from showing up in Category:Album_Lists. --Rossetyler (talk) 05:17, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

done, see the trick. --Senvaikis (talk) 07:46, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing it for me. Could you also teach me how to do it myself? I knew once but something must have changed (I won't rule out my ever fading memory). I can see the change you made in the edit diff but I can't see it on the page - much less figure out how to make the change myself. What am I missing? --Rossetyler (talk) 19:25, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
You'd have any problems in monobook skin, btw. In Oasis some simple tasks may turn slightly tricky indeed, (see demo, hth)
nite, --Senvaikis (talk) 22:14, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
As always, I very much appreciate your help. I have made a note to myself. Shame I can't find this documented anywhere. --Rossetyler (talk) 22:56, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

Pipe Malady

Artist and album pages whose tracks starts with | or anything but #. tia --ES (talk) 21:50, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Latest Update

Move Department: Great job! Well Done!

What else is hiding in there? --ES (talk) 23:25, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
What else? Well, now you may try to find all …'s, f.e., - see UG ;)
(don't look @ artists - all three such artists have been fixed already)
--Senvaikis (talk) 20:58, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Disabled Visual Editor

Hello. I'm a user from a wiki that has been looking for a way to disable the Visual Editor. A certain user here had told us to come here and ask about how to disable such features. So I'd like to know what specific technical modifications had been done to the site's codes so that the Visual Editor is no longer usable on the entire wiki. The reason for why we would like to do the same to our site is here. Thank you for spending your time reading and replying to this question. --"I don't want to see anymore..."—Reika Kuze 13:37, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't have absolutely any experience in this area - I think you'd better ask wiki stuff about that, - sorry. --Senvaikis (talk) 20:10, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
Ah well, ok. I may as well ask the person in charge of JavaScript, PHP, etc. of the site. Can you tell me who the user is? --"I don't want to see anymore..."—Reika Kuze 02:05, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Self Cycled redir

Thanks for fixing what I missed at Ben Caplan & The Casual Smokers. It seems that something changed in the latset edition of Lwt (in the Move or Redirect Song section) and I didn't notice it until a lot of those self cycled redirs happened. I doubt I need to explain further. ;) --ES (talk) 18:19, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Oh yes, there's no need to explain further indeed, - who else may know better about the harmful nature of Lwt... I have already given up hope of ever fixing it completely :). But if some of its countless bugs make your life especially unhappy - let me know (providing a short description), and I'll try to do my best. Another (worse) problem - there's no need in any bugs to make buggy things with Lwt due to its just negative fool-proof, so sometimes you don't even need to be a fool to be seriously fooled by Lwt...;) Anyways, - that's not mea culpa - you was warned in advance... (the danger of weapon is in direct proportion to its power) ;)
nite,--Senvaikis (talk) 20:59, May 23, 2013 (UTC)
That was certainly no bug, just an unexpected (and useful) change in behaviour. Artist matching changed to artist starting with. Fooled me once, no more! --ES (talk) 02:09, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
Once? Please, don't comfort me ;). Anyways I'm glad to hear you aren't mad on Lwt even after catharsis with aliases (I used to step on the same rake too) :) --Senvaikis (talk) 15:27, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

The most sophisticated dupes

That's an old story; here are only 3 episodes from it:
  1. Kari Tapio:Sinitaikaa (1993) & Ï»¿Kari Tapio:Sinitaikaa (1993) - seemingly identical, but actually - two different pages, and it wasn't easy to turn the latter red... The same story with Ï»¿Kari Tapio:Olen Suomalainen (1983)
  2. All my attempts to resolve today's double redirs to 大谷幸 (Kow Otani):It's Just Love (Machine) by reediting involved pages have failed. Attempt to delete one of redirs (notice the time:37:54) didn't fail, but it failed to resolve double redir - the page "was" still here, in the list of double redirs! And again, only after deleting by ID (53:52) dbl redir list was cleaned finally. Interesting detail: file deletion log still shows time 37:54, ergo - page, deleted by name and page, deleted by ID, were different pages!
  3. This episode has the same nature as #2, - included here just as answer to ES' wondering: "why does this keep showing up?!" So, why was image "いきものがかり (Ikimono Gakari) - 花は桜 君は美し.jpg" reappearing persistently afer each its deletion? The answer was hidden in response to this query:
<page pageid="3254492" ns="6" title="File:いきものがかり (Ikimono Gakari) - 花は桜 君は美し.jpg" />
<page pageid="883043" ns="6" title="File:いきものがかり (Ikimono Gakari) - 花は桜 君は美し.jpg" />
Both names are identical only on browser, but any hex-editor will show you, that latter contains unbreakable space, or, to be precise, ideographic space (dec #12288, hex 3000) instead of space (#32). That's why any our actions (editions/deletions etc) via browser by file name used to affect only the first file, containing a simple space in its name. And the only radical solution in such cases is deletion by pageID, at least for a while. Notice, that two my subsequential deletions (by name, @42:08 and by ID, @44:32) were applied to different pages, but both "view/restore" links lead to the same (first) page... :)
I'm just curious - what's the actual count of such hidden, uneditable & undeletable (by name) duplicates?
--Senvaikis (talk) 07:57, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
Decided to make a table of chars-generators of possible ghosts. It's not complete yet - feel free to add new items.
--Senvaikis (talk) 18:39, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
So.. is nbsp in pagename guaranteed to cause problems? It is used fairly often in rtl text, and I have always suspected it as a malady (like those undeleteables of years past), but never encountered any issues in our rtl department. It is possible to be typed accidentaly (option-space on Mac)
The other is double spaced page names like Machine. Anything strange there?
and there was the case of Ā­ in pagenames that once caused apparently identical page names ;) cheers --ES (talk) 06:16, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
<Opt>-sp on Mac produces ascii code 202 (hex CA); ideographic spaces (hex 3000) may come only from unicode-encoded sources imo. --Senvaikis (talk) 13:14, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Problems With Allmusik Link

Hi Senv, we both tried to add an allmusic link to the GDR Anthem. Since I did not want to link to a specific recording but to the information about the piece itself, allmusic only offers mc links. I've had that problem before. It often occurs with songs that are common property or traditionals. When leaving the /composition/ part to the link, it works but the page is listed as invalid allmusik link page. Is there any way around this problem while INCLUDING the link to the page? And if not, is there a way to make it work? thx,  · Lichtweber talk service  16:42, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Works now – I've updated {{allmusic}} to recognise the "mc" prefix. — 6×9 (Talk) 17:13, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

"NOT"ing the intersection

Senv is it possible to use the intersection API with NOT? I want to find all artist pages that do not have any AF params. (ignoring extras like MA,BC,SV,RN) What hoops do I, or Lwt need to jump thru? ;) tia --ES (talk) 06:21, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Double "no": a) iApi doesn't feature "not" logics; b) even if it did - there's no such category as "Artists with an empty footer". And c): Lwt also doesn't have any built-in routine for such task, as I can recall, sry. --Senvaikis (talk) 06:46, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

discriminatory information of Sleipnir

Hello, I like to ask you to write a statement to the discriminatory of Sleipnir, because it could have effects for other groupsides too, who has indexed albums or says political statements! Thank you very much! User_talk:6_times_9#Information_on_Band_Page --LYRIC-Schweineschwarte (talk) 20:23, June 4, 2013 (UTC)

Hope you are satisfied now with 6' solution and comment - brief artist info in {{ArtistInfo}} shouldn't be considered as any discrimination of artist.
On the other hand, I'd recommend Lichtweber to concentrate more on the main LW target - lyrics and refrain from any political, ethical or social estimations and comments - just half-step remains from them to censorship... --Senvaikis (talk) 06:01, June 5, 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't want bother you or other users, but I thinks that were wrongful. But I accept your choice and thank you for your conversation with Lichtwerber. --LYRIC-Schweineschwarte (talk) 19:42, June 7, 2013 (UTC)


Yeah, sorry about those funky characters...I'm not sure what the deal is. I'm in China at the moment and computers here have Unicode that alternate between multiple keyboards. ngggph sssh 08:40, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that explains the reason, but never mind - that's not a big problem imo :). As you understand, I can't reproduce the same situation and find some workaround, but I'd try to be more carefull on selecting ytID part (non-printing char is located at the end of ID). If that doesn't help - remains only one workaround - just delete manually ending part of ID in edit mode).
Thanks for info, and happy editing in China! ---Senvaikis (talk) 08:56, June 7, 2013 (UTC)


Hi, Thanks for your message. I'll try to follow the guidelines more closely. Best wishes, Kate. DaylightSaving (talk) 10:14, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

You are always welcome! Feel free to ask any help if you have some questions. Have fun!--Senvaikis (talk) 10:17, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

P.S. Best wishes to Richard also!

Request for editing page's name

Hi, Senvaikis!

Do you remember me? :) It's been a long time since I prepared for my graduation (and of course I couldn't visit LyricWiki :(). But now, I've finished all and I'm very pleased to continue contributing to this Wiki.

I have a request about this page: This is a song page not an artist page (and that means it's wrong page's name?!) and I want to create a page of artist call Baby Blue. So hope you'll edit this page name!

Thank you so much! Have a nice day and keep working hard! :)

--Cuonghp75 (talk) 10:27, June 18, 2013 (UTC)

done, happy editing!--Senvaikis (talk) 12:07, June 18, 2013 (UTC)

Live Albums Redundant?

Hi Senvaikis,

you recently removed the live album and a compilation of unreleased song versions of the band Trio.

For the live album: I did not know that it was against LW policy to list live albums and I could not find such a rule anywhere. I'd be grateful if you could direct me to those rules.

For the compilation: I added this album because it is the only legitimate release feat. Ein bißchen Liebe. And all the other versions of songs haven't been listed here before. Since this is a wiki project I was hoping that there would be a chance for the users to add the different lyrics successively.

So would you be so kind to revert the deletion? Thanks,  · Lichtweber talk service  17:52, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

  1. Live album: you are right saying that live album listing doesn't go in contradiction to LW policy. But the reason of this album removing was its redundancy, not the live type - it doesn't contain any song, unavailable on other albums. That's sufficient reason for any single, compilation, live or even studio album removing (with rare possible exclusions for some especially noteworthy releases), 'cause LW is lyrics-, not discography-oriented site.
  2. Compilation: first of all let's start from definitions - "Trio (Deluxe Edition) (2003)" isn't a compilation, even if en:wp states vice versa. DE:Wp is more close to the truth and LW-style definitions, naming it just as "1981: Trio (2003 als Deluxe-Edition neu aufgelegt)". But you don't need in any wp-help here, 'cause first of all your editions should follow LW policy, stating: "Any album differences due to various regional releases, deluxe editions, or limited editions are best noted on the regular album page." So, if Trio DE contains some songs, unavailable on regular album, they may be listed additionally, but on the same, original album page. Any "different" versions of songs, containing (live version), (demo version), (10" version) etc notations, aren't any different versions in LW-interpretation, if their lyrics are identical to originals. So, why can't you just list the song Ein Bißchen Liebe in Trio original album, as DE track (as was done with some other tracks)?
Now tell me - what "deletion" should I revert? --Senvaikis (talk) 21:44, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for the link to the album page rules - I must've missed the deluxe part. Sorry. Now I followed ur suggestion on this, though it does not look quite elegant to me. If you have examples on how this could be done better - I'll be thankful for any hint.
Now there's only the live album part left. As I mentioned in my previous post, I was planning on successively adding the lyrics that were actually used on the live albums which might sometimes very much differ from those sung on the album. And on top there are some awesome videos from their live performances on youtube that I'd love to add to the live song pages.
Therefore I was hoping I could use the existing live album track listing as kind of a grid. That would help me very much to finally fill the gaps. Without it, I would first have to create a live page for the respective song, this one would appear in the "Other Song" section and I'd have to sort it into a new live album list after each song is done perfectly. This seems a little strenous to me. And I don't want to set up a red link list, either. What are your thoughts?

 · Lichtweber talk service  14:21, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

As was mentioned already, this live album didn't contain any song, unavailable on other albums atm of its removing. Hope you understand that any edition reverting should be based only on actual facts and LW policy, - not some unknown, even best, intentions. Any youtube videos, even nice, can't be considered as an argument for such reverting also. But if you really have reliable info about songs with really different lyrics on this album, then I don't see here any problem for you: just create songpages for those songs, list them in a new live album page, then include this album into artist page etc. That's up to you, - making your edits without any new orphanes creating or OS list increasing. Frankly speaking, I'm slightly confused, while explaining such trivial things - maybe I've missed something... --Senvaikis (talk) 16:56, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
What I was trying to say is that the live listing is "work-in-progress" as is the whole page. Quite common for a wiki. In other words: I was hoping you'd make my job easier by restoring it. I really see no harm if sometimes redundant information is showing on a page temorarily, as long as someone takes care of it and is willing to improve it step by step. Exactly what I am trying to do here.
I hope I'm not taking too much of a risk when I say: The other songs and albums on the Trio page are partially still far from being correct. Technically, that would be a reason to delete them, too. But does that make sense? Or does it just make the job complicated?
I am editing on LW for quite a while now, so I'd really appreciate if you could just trust me and give me time to work on it. Thank you,  · Lichtweber talk service  14:50, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
Once more: you are free to add any new info (album is no longer redundant if you have info about different songs on it). Just I still don't understand what do you want from me - hope you know the difference between page deleting (making it unavailable for further editing by an ordinary user) and simple page content revision (when any removed info remains available on the page edition history). So, if you need initial tracklist "as a grid" for your further work - feel free to use it - it never was "deleted for good" and always remains available for you. hth,--Senvaikis (talk) 17:41, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Guideline for Musical Plays?

I am glad that u finally approved ;) What puzzles me is how to handle authors, performers, and different releases (i.e. soundtracks) of one and the same musical play. Obviously, many of the contributors are confused about that as well. So before I start a discussion I wanted to ask if there are any guidelines on how to properly create a musical play page (I think it should be a page that can contain all releases) and how to format their featured songs. IMO it is wrong to put the author of a song in the "performer" section of the song template, because writers such as Andrew Lloyd Webber hardly ever "perform" those songs. But each release of f.i. The Music man have their own performers ...Zillions of questions in the quiver, but that's it for now.  · Lichtweber talk service  14:01, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for belated response. To be honest, the reason of delay is childly simple: just can't suggest any "ready for use" wise recipe or guideline... Hope you'll have more luck in the discussion you are going to initiate :). Good luck, --Senvaikis (talk) 21:17, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
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