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GPP - Do you agree?

Hi Senv,

please read this document on the "Gracenote Placeholder Project" (GPP) and tell me what you think Yeah and if you agree with it. Sean and Trainman already discussed and agreed in the chat, but as you're never there, I'm asking for your opinion here now. 6 got the same message (C&P Wink). - Chris 01:43, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Chris.
I'm not sure if I've undertood all details of your project, but I did like the main idea. It would be great to release LW from that white elephant. Adage "never too much of a good thing" is one of most dangerous in IT - sometimes it's better to have less, but reliable and well-organized information, not swamped in a mesureless sea of all kinds of infomation garbage.
So then you'll be done wit GPP, think about another, but very akin problem: grabbing lyrics from inet. It may very easily lead us to the situation when number of LW pages will be equal to the number of songs, multiplied by number of all possible variations of mistitling, misencoding & misaccenting (see here & here...).
Btw, I was very impressed by your project of most LW basic templates rewriting. Very nice and veery wanted job - hope you'll not be very long with it :)
--Senvaikis (talk) 21:31, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. Only skimmed over the details – tired & my brain is fried. Only downside is we won't get an automatic alert when a pagename is unjustly protected (i.e. GN page has come into existence & GNB has somehow "forgotten" to unprotect it), but that could be checked manually from time to time. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:45, July 1, 2011 (UTC)
...aaaand done Smile. 8 hours of work for the 2nd and 3rd step. Regarding step 4 I've got to think about something first.
I'm only posting this here as 6 also watches this here. @Senv: I'm sorry you didn't stay longer, would be fun to talk to you; maybe next time. Don't worry about "I am to slow" or "My English is too bad." We've got plenty of time. @6: I've never seen you in the chat, either Tongue - Chris 10:12, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

English Latin

Hi Senv,

just here to let you know this happened. I don't think you can do much about this but maybe it's good for you to know. - Chris 16:59, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, you are right - I can retrain Lwt, but not Google language detection api. All I could change - exclude Latin language from the list of detectable languages, but not sure if it would be the best solution. Btw, Latin isn't the hardest task for Google - confidence of Croatian/Serbian detection is even worse, not speaking about romanized Japanese, usually being detected as Indonesian. --Senvaikis (talk) 21:43, July 9, 2011 (UTC)
Excluding Latin... well I guess usually Google is quite right about Latin, it would block correctly detected languages, maybe. I suppose the typos in the song are the real reason, like "coml" in the first line. What text part does Lwt crop to pass it to the Google API? - Chris 13:37, July 10, 2011 (UTC)
Lwt doesn't look for any special part of lyrics, most suitable for language detection - just takes the starting one. Have got any idea for such lookup? --Senvaikis (talk) 14:07, July 10, 2011 (UTC)
Hm, maybe section-wise, and if there's two contradictious recognitions with both GC 0.85+ (or whatever a good limit is, I don't have much experience with GC values), don't do anything? - Chris 18:36, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
Hm? Yes, hm... not bad... :). Speaking more serious, I'd not rush making any changes to this deprecated api-based procedure at all... :( --Senvaikis (talk) 19:55, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
Google is already discontinuing work and will completely remove old V1 and new V2 of their most use- and successful API in December. Wow, that's rough. Yeah, don't put any effort in it. We'll see if the "Microsoft Translator Tools" API will fill the gap, allowing MS to gain more power again. - Chris 01:49, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

Photos

Thanks for explaining, Senvaikis! Keep editing!!:)

hard4me 14:08, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

Looking at your response and followed contributions seems that my explanation is still too Hard4You to understand. Would it be more obvious to you, if I remind that all albumcover images without {{albumcover}} may be just deleted, without any additional editings/explainings?
So, keep learning, Hard4me!!
--Senvaikis (talk) 21:04, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
You just put a stop sign signal on my talk page and I understand why. I was going to ask you how you got to that page you used in your explanation but I was busy for a while and I was about to ask today. Please explain. Thanks!
hard4me 14:07, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
Just jump into Special:Chat, if you are online, and I'll try to explain once more. --Senvaikis (talk) 14:15, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
Glad to see you've got the gist yourself. Grats! --Senvaikis (talk) 14:55, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

Labelle

Well, when I looked up some of Patti LaBelle's albums that you have here on Wikipedia, and it says that some of them are by Labelle, not Patti LaBelle. XxTimberlakexx 15:47, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

That's exactly what I wanted to say: some albums on Patti LaBelle page belong to group Labelle, but not all - others are solo releases by Patti LaBelle (member of Labelle). That certainly doesn't mean that Patti LaBelle should be redirected to Labelle. Hope you aren't going to redirect Robert Plant to Led Zeppelin... ;).
I'm working now trying to fix this mess... --Senvaikis (talk) 16:34, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
Okay :) Anyway, thank you for fixing it, it looks great man! XxTimberlakexx 19:48, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

API issue w/dots in titles

Hiya Senv,
Was digging through unresolved bug tickets in our system & was wondering if you're still seeing this problem
Thanks,
-Sean Colombo 20:35, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Sean,
yes, HttpRequest (or .NET WebClient) still fails if pagename contains dots, but seems I've found some workaround.
Let's take api query for backlinks to M.Y.M.P. for example.
As you can see, it works fine on browser.
But HttpRequest with the same query fails with error "The remote server returned an error: (403) Forbidden."
Then I found that for some reasons urlencoding of pagename is no longer sufficient for httpRequests to api (urlencoding doesn't affect dots). Then I tried to replace dots by "%2E", and found that such query works fine with HttpRequest as well as on browser.
So, frankly speaking I'm not sure if this issue even should be registered as bug ticket, though I do remember that api used to work without such replace earlier.
Thanks, --Senvaikis (talk) 15:30, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
Weird! I wonder what changed.
Thanks for clearing that up though. Glad there was a reasonable workaround. :)
-Sean Colombo 21:22, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

Question

Hi there. I have a quick question I need to be solved. You see, Tell Me Something Good by Rufus and Chaka Khan was released to Rock Band 3 as DLC last week. I want to put the GameFeatureDLC template on the song, but there's three different pages of it: Rufus:Tell Me Something Good, Chaka Khan:Tell Me Something Good, and Rufus & Chaka Khan:Tell Me Something Good. Which page do I put the template on? Thanks in advance! XxTimberlakexx 00:53, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Hi, XxTimberlakexx.
Yep, that was tangled affair, but you've solved it quite well imo - at least I'd made it the same way as you did ;). --Senvaikis (talk) 19:17, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

RfDs

Hello...why were the requests for deletion removed on all of those incorrect spellings yesterday? If they don't get deleted the bot keeps adding them back to the bottom of the artist's page as orphans when they are all duplicates. (Ordizzle 20:04, August 7, 2011 (UTC))

Hi, - good question, Ordizzle. Briefly, the reason was exactly the one you've mentioned: preventing of reappearing in Other Songs section.
Why? In addition to the bot Janitor, collecting and distributing orphaned songs, there's another bot ÜberBot, searching and grabbing lyrics from lyrics sites over Inet. So, if you just delete misspelled song, sooner or later this song may be reuploaded by ÜberBot and redistributed by Janitor. Redirecting of misspelled song prevents it's reappearing in OS, 'cause ÜberBot doesn't redownload existing pages, and Janitor doesn't treat redirects as orphanes (so- doesn't add them to OS). That's why redirected page should contain only redirection directive (no other text or directives).
hth, --Senvaikis (talk) 09:31, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Hi!

Hey, Senvaikis! Did you need me? xxTimberlakexx said that you needed me for something but he forgot what it was. If you do have something you need from me, just go to chat. In fact, when you get the chance, could you please go to chat?

hard4me 15:15, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

I can't recall what could I need from you particularly, Hard4Me, but generally speaking, I always need communicating with all of LW users, - including you :). Sorry for belated response - if you have some question - drop it here better. Cheers, --Senvaikis (talk) 12:22, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Avie trouble...

Hi, Senv! Long time no talk. I am having trouble with changing my avatar. Not only that. I am on a Wiki chat and everybody there cannot change their avatars as well... Is there a problem with Wikia? If so, LMK. Thanks! -ÂØˇÂ⁄⁄ 17:36, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, really long; and sorry, MOM, but this time you'd better readdress this questionto to Sean, - I haven't any clue how this issue should be solved :(. Hope that's the only problem in your life :). --Senvaikis (talk) 12:44, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Main Page

Hi Senvaikis, You know how the Free Music of the Week hasn't changed since Willmak left? Well, I discussed with some people in chat about replacing Free Music of the Month with something else. I have discussed with Sean Colombo, LWChris, Trainman, and XxTimberlakexx about it and we suggested an Artist of the Week/Month. If it is made, would you like to take over that project? Thanks!

hard4me 23:52, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

As you know, I never was an active member in this field of LW-activity, therefore I delegate my vote to Chris, and recommend you to fully rely on his opinion :). --Senvaikis (talk) 10:06, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

The Wiggles

Hey again. I need your help with something. The artist page The Wiggles barely has any content. I added one album and put their info in the box. If you want, you can help me put the rest of the albums on their page with your bot. If so, that would be greatly appreciated, since the Wiggles are a popular band. Thanks. XxTimberlakexx 22:20, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

I'm always glad to give some job to Lwt, but seems that "The Wiggles" isn't a best target for that - I couldn't find almost any lyrics of that childs music project. If you know some source for their lyrics -let me know and I'll make the rest job. Otherwise it would be a bad idea to make a page with a bunch of albums, containing nothing but red links (as you possibly know -I hate red links ;)). --Senvaikis (talk) 10:21, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

The mess that is Team StarKid

Hey, thanks for deleting those subpages. I've taken your advice on board and will be making some changes, but as you can appreciate, the structure of Team StarKid do mean things tend to overcomplicate themselves at times.

First off, I will be getting rid of the links in the Performers sections. I do agree that permanent redlinks are redundant, but when I initially created the pages, I hadn't taken this into consideration.

Secondly, in terms of Featured Artists, I'm still in two minds. My initial policy was to FA any performer who wasn't encore; that is, was an actual character that sings/speaks in the song. But, I can agree that on songs such as Goin' Back To Hogwarts, it gets a bit ridiculous, and thus I will likely be removing the names from such pages soon.

However, I consider FAs on other pages to be correct, as only a couple 'StarKids' actually perform in each, yet the whole group is recognised as the artist. Obviously redlinks are unavoidable in this situation, but I feel it is correct as it offers instant recognition, rather than having the user scroll through.

Obviously as admin, you can tell me to completely remove the FAs if you consider it prudent, however I do feel it would be best carrying on using the FAs in this situation.

Many thanks,

    ǝsʞpɐןǝ  (talk page)  15:19, 23/08/2011

Being an admin doesn't mean better knowledge of Team StarKid, so by no means - I'm not going to dictate any peremptory prescripts :).
Nevertheless I can't resist to temptation of giving some more reasonings, why listing of such "artists" in fa-list isn't the best choice imho. Let's start from the meaning of expression "Featured Artist": am I right that it suposes some really active, self-sufficient artist/band, usually having its own discography? Then such artist will not cause any problems in fa-list, even if it doesn't have any LW-page yet - sooner or later this page may be created, turning such fa-link into blue. That's why I still think that Performers section is much more suitable place for "artists" without any chances to ever have their own discograpy. And notice, that in distinct to fa-list, this section enables selective linking/unlinking of it's members. If you still think that Performers isn't the best container for listing some of "artists" - don't forget about Credits section as well...
Once more - that's only my humble opinion, nothing more, so feel free to edit Team StarKid as you like. Or you may want to rise this question in our Community Portal, if you like - it's always better to rely on universally accepted opinion ;).
Happy editing, --Senvaikis (talk) 17:08, August 23, 2011 (UTC)
I'm with Senv, "featured artists" are unaffiliated, independent artists or groups that "joined" another artist for that track. Featurings are usually also labeled and promoted as those. Usually, you find featurings within Hip Hop, Pop, Dance and Electro scene. In some cases "featuring" does also mean that the original material comes from the featured artist. I'd recommend to put singers into the "Credits" or the additional information section. - Chris 23:53, August 25, 2011 (UTC)
Aye, I've made the changes now. However, I have a new issue that I would like your help with. The StarKid albums are soundtracks, but as they are by one artist, they keep their artist prefix as per the guidelines.
However, on Song pages, when you change the song template so the type of album is 'soundtrack', it drops the prefix and redlinks the album. I have tried getting around this by using {{!}} in the album name parameter, but this affects footer metadata. So, is there a way of putting the prefix back?
Can you ping me on my talk when you respond? Cheers.
EDIT: Do you think it would be okay to get around it by using an ASCII instead of one of the letters in 'soundtrack'?
    ǝsʞpɐןǝ  (talk page)  14:19, 26/08/2011
Yes, "soundtrack" is a case-insensitive reserved word, dropping an albumartist in {{Song}}. And yes, - changing "type=soundtrack" to "type=&\#115\;oundtrack" should work, but I'd recommend other approach - "type=soundtrack album", though frankly speaking, not sure if that's the best choice :).
Hth, - --Senvaikis (talk) 17:04, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
You could also use type=soundtrack and your {{!}} workaround and additionally define the album parameter in {{SongFooter}} to fix the footer again, although I'm not sure whether this only affects the displaytext or the album parameter... Nevertheless it might be worth a try. - Chris 21:53, August 26, 2011 (UTC) Have to admit I'm a bit proud to say that such problems will be solved with T-Line Yeah

thanks, I say THANKS

I just stopped to say hello. I will likely bug you sometime for advice. Cheers...Derekbd 18:45, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

You are welcome! --Senvaikis (talk) 20:01, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Wax Poetic album titles

Hi Senvaikis,

Afaics originally, both WP titles, nublu sessions and copenhagen, are written lowercase. So I named the pages according to the LW:NP upper case. But I chose to use the original spelling for the link text. You changed that so I wonder if I missed another policy here? Thanks for your help in advance. --Lichtweber 20:12, August 28, 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Lichtweber.
Yes, according to lw:pn, page link display part may (not must!) be capitalized according to capitalization, used on album cover, especially when such capitalization reflects a certain semantic information, or for some other reasons (some Japanese traditions, f.e.). But usually this link text should follow the normal titles capitalization rules for that language (you may want to study these quite complicated rules @MB). It's a commonly-used practice to use all-lowercase or all-uppercase album/songs titles on covers just as some form of graphical design. That's why I think that Wax Poetic:Copenhagen (2006) should follow normal capitalization rules for English language, ignoring lowercase of title on album cover, as well as The Beatles:A Hard Day's Night (1964) ignores all uppercase, or Procol Harum:The Prodigal Stranger (1991) - lowercase. Hth, --Senvaikis (talk) 21:32, August 28, 2011 (UTC)

Using OL for bonus tracks

I know how to use the template. Thanks for pointing to it. Is it preferred to have the track numbers for the bonus tracks indicate what track#s they are on the (special) release, or are we just counting the TOTAL number of tracks listed? See Rufus Wainwright:Release The Stars (2007) if you need to see what I mean. There I numbered according to what the track # on each release is (or would be if they were all physical discs.) Is that correct or should the last 3 tracks be numbered 15, 16, 17 ? Cheers.. Derekbd 12:12, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Seems you know already - LW doesn't have any strict policy regarding bonus tracks formatting. Yes, our Help states that bts "...may be listed at the end of the track list using headers created by the {{OL}} template", and your sample is a good evidence that you've read this help and really do know what these templates are for and how they should be used :).
In other words, all you've done here, was done very well. But are you hapy looking at this page? Especially keeping in mind, that strictly speaking, this list of bt's combinations may be not complete yet. Now try to imagine a page of some album, having much more rereleases, "limited/deluxe/aniversarry/etc.-editions", with a full list of all possible tracks/bts, with exact numbering combinations. That'd be a complicated task...:). Moreover - that'd look terrible imo. Let me ask - what for? Are we a discography-oriented site? No. Yes, it's certainly better to keep info about tracks numbering and releases, when it's possible, but when things are going too complicated, I'd recommend to simplify them, remembering that LW is lyrics-oriented site first of all.
Here's one of possible ways of such simplifying:
.....
12 Release The Stars
Bonus tracks:
13 Do I Disappoint You (instrumental) (UK CD)
14 Cowboy Song (UK CD & iTunes)
15 Patience is a Virtue (Wal-Mart online)
16 Old Paint (Best Buy download)
17 Low Grade Happiness (Best Buy download)
Once more - there's no any strict policy, specifying bts formatting, hence that's only my opinion, not mandatory to follow. This question isn't as simple as may seem at first glance (we should remember that all songs and their album-dependence should stay visible to API, still highly oriented to artist, not album pages). It would be interesting to hear what BM, 6 or Chris (now finishing his T-line) would say to us...
--Senvaikis (talk) 14:54, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

What you say is good sense. Besides understanding there's no strict policy on the issue, what I needed to be told most was that this is not a discography. I was veering that way, innit. Thanks... Derekbd 14:37, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

take down

Can a take-down notice be prompted for review, or is it all strictly automatic? Isn't it it odd that only a single Rufus composition is "forbidden." Rufus Wainwright:The Art Teacher. Cheers ...derekbd 11:24, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Derek.
Sorry, but I can't add nothing new to Chris' comment: Quote by LWChris: "Gracenote takedowns are illogical from time to time, it's just like that (if I made a top 10 list of the most nonsensical takedown titles you'd probably be laughing till you cry. Wink). Yet there's nothing we can do about it, takedowns have to be applied and revoked as Gracenote specifies."
--Senvaikis (talk) 13:26, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

House of Rufus

Thanks for the comment on my page.
If you have the time and inclination would you see the message/query I left on Redxx's talk page? Since (I believe) you have 'special powers' (a script) would you be inclined to enter the tracks for House of Rufus? It would be a big help, as you can imagine. Cheers...derekbd 04:58, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunatelly my scripts are helpless untill none of Lwt sources (wp, amz, amg, mb, dog & iT) have this info (isn't that a sufficient ground for doubts about it's necessity in LW? ;)). But I understand and respect your striving to make Rufus really "golden" or even "platinum", thus made (manually) some starting rough draft for your job. Forgive me for unfinished listing, but a)I'm very slow in manual typing; b)thus I hate manual editing; and sorry, but c)I really haven't enough time for that atm. Hope that this starting draft'll help you, at least partially.
Cheers, --Senvaikis (talk) 09:20, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

No worries! It is a help. I like finishing jobs and I have lots of time. Cheers..derekbd 12:42, September 13, 2011 (UTC) I actually looked at your draft. Holy cow! Thanks SO very much. I didn't think LW would list the tracks on dvds. Is this just special case for box set? Should other standalone dvds be listed on the artist page? cheers..derekbd 23:51, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

I'd listed only DVDs titles of box set, without full track-lists (or at least with unlinked lists), 'cause remarkable part of tracks are interviews, behind-scenes etc. - in other words - not the primary object of LW. But that's only my humble opinion :). Good luck, --Senvaikis (talk) 05:01, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

Avatar is gone!

What happened to it! --TheBen10Mazter (Talk -Blog -Contribs) 19:39, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

Nothing special, Ben - Just I disabled it preparing for possible retirement. Truth to tell, that should be done much earlier...:). Cheers, --Senvaikis (talk) 13:26, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

automated lyrics addition of newly added group page

Hey, I just yesterday added the band page for Son Goku and wanted to add the lyrics one after another over the next few days when I find the time to do so. Today I noticed that User:Lwt added all of them in a batch job, mostly completely unformatted, like ignoring song flow and German capital lettered words. Actually I consider that a fair bit demotivating and strange. Why should I bother listening to songs and checking the lyrics anyway when your bot does some job straight ahead... I'm not claiming it to be edit-steal, but I wonder if that's really how things are expected to work here? So should I just add album pages in the future and sit and wait for Lwt to fetch the lyrics from... where actually did it pull it from? Why didn't it add them before but directly after I created the group/album page? Makes it feel like it's sitting on a sack full of lyrics that it only wants to share when one sets out to invest some time already, to tell them that they aren't worth the effort. *frowns*

Rhonda D'Vine 19:41, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Gerfried, -
thanks for your message, - we'll discuss this problem for certain later (it's a deep night in Vilnius now), and I'm sure we'll find some way to take Lwt in sail :)
nite, --Senvaikis (talk) 22:10, September 20, 2011 (UTC)
Ok, let's investigate your complaint about bad Lwt manners in more details, in hope to extenuate crime or find some optimal solution for future (though very likely Lwt'll retire at all in the nearest future, together with it's boss Senv).
First of all, I hope that the strain of your message was dictated just by your bad mood, and actually you don't seriously believe that I'm sitting and waiting for a chance to demotivate or abase you. But as I've said already, I understand how such Lwt interventions could cause your bad mood. That's why I'll try to explain what Lwt is, what for it was created and how does it work. Actually Lwt isn't a bot - just a program, containing some set of tools - automated procedures for batch editing and various data collecting from LW and over Inet. So, user Lwt is just my alternative account, occupied by this program. The main Lwt concern is to keep LW as "healthy" as possible, trying to supplement or fix external links, add required images or fix existing ones and minimize such LW categories as SNLI, SNFA, AAWA, CC etc etc. Most of these tasks would be impossible without powerful engine of data searching over Inet. I don't want to talk tall, but Lwt is really powerful and handy tool for that, so it would be unwise not to use its power for missing lyrics searching and adding also.
  • Now let's follow Lwt actions to understand ...why didn't it add them (songs) before but directly after (you) created the group/album page. There may be various scenarios, but usually Lwt finds some pages with unfilled lyrics while managing category AAWA which increases every time when someone adds a cover art image for some still pageless album. So, trying to minimize this category, Lwt looks for possibilities to create a page for this album, if that's possible. Should say, that creating any page, containing only red-links, is not a best practice imo, so Lwt's striving to create album pages, containing at least some songs with filled-in lyrics. If that's not the case, then Lwt tries to find missing lyrics and only then creates an album page. In our case initial Lwts attention could be caused by short page membership of another Category:Invalid Album Art Template, also being managed by Lwt. So, now I hope you agree that wasn't made intentionally to abase you.
  • Let's return now to the first part of your message, stating that lyrics were ...completely unformatted, like ignoring song flow and German capital lettered words. Yes, as you know already, that sack full of lyrics Lwt's sitting on, is Inet, and you certainly know what a mess of information/disinformation may be found on it. And yes, Lwt isn't smart enough to convert all that often garbaged texts into perfectly formatted lyrics, following particular language rules. But remember that it's not absolutely dumb bot also, and it's not allowed to upload naked garbage. Have you find at least one song with multiple mistitled versions or containing absolutely uneditable garbage of misaccented text on your page?. Haven't you never seen artist page with Other Songs section, filled with oodles of mistitled, misaccented duplicates of songs, existing on that page already? Fixing all of them is a real pain even for admin, let alone ordinary user. If you made some popular artist page and left it untouched, waiting for ÜberBot & Janitor assistance, you'd probably understand what I'm talking about. So, uploading some correctly titled lyrics with most reliable, editable text, available on Inet, isn't the worst thing that could happen to your page, believe me.
  • I intentionally accented word "editable", preparing to discuss the last (main, imo) part of your complain: Quote by Gerfried Fuchs: "Why should I bother listening to songs and checking the lyrics anyway when your bot does some job straight ahead... I'm not claiming it to be edit-steal, but I wonder if that's really how things are expected to work here? So should I just add album pages in the future and sit and wait for Lwt to fetch the lyrics..?". No, you shouldn't. I think that "listening to songs and checking the lyrics" is the most important editing job in LW, and editable lyrics, uploaded by Lwt, shouldn't steal the joy of this job from you imo. Just I thought it'd make it easier, - sad if I was wrong.
  • Time to resume: if even now you remain unhappy about such "silicon assistance", - just let me know, what solution would be more acceptable for you:
    • introducing some minimal time delay (week, f.e.) between page creation and any its edition by Lwt
    • introducing some "exceptions list" for Lwt - then all pages, created by you (or any other user in thet list), would be protected from any Lwt edits
Should say I don't like neither solution (both aren't in a good agreement to the spirit of LW), but I realize that a)problem exists b)you may be not lonely. That's why my response was such oversized and polite :). Anyway, I'm open for any other thoughts.
Happy editing, --Senvaikis (talk) 13:05, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
I hope I format this correctly for the response. :) It is a bit difficult for me, usually I use the itsalltext addon of firefox and edit in vim, but that doesn't seem to work with this edit interface, I'm unsure why ...
Anyway, thanks for the lengthy explenation. I know you could have read a bit of frustration on my side in the message, but I also hope that I didn't think you did it on bad faith. I know myself from my involvement in Debian that in voluntary projects it's hard to please all, and the more you do the more people you will trip on their toes, no matter how much you try to avoid that. So let me state it clearly: my frustration was against the situation, not against you personally. Don't know you yet at all. :)
I can see that your explenation is much more general than the situation at hand. So what you are writing is that Lwt instantly notices pages that have, even when a really short time only, invalid albumart macros in them, Lwt gets notified about that right ahead? Or was it just that it was checking the page coincidently at that time?
And actually, now I start to understand that I probably never should ever put song lyrics with rating Green on, that is a good default, but it might make more sense for automatic import. I wonder though if I could set Silver already or if I should stick to Bronze like I did on Grossstadtgeflüster:Lebenslauf and Grossstadtgeflüster:Kann Ich Auch. What do you suggest? Are they ready for Silver?
Actually what took me a bit off-tracks is that User:Trainman lists what band pages he created, and I thought, nice idea - and then was "ripped" off the chance to create the song pages for Son Goku myself. But it's fine, they need work for getting to Bronze and Silver anyway, and like you write, that's much more needed.
I also noticed the changes you did on Papermoon, thanks for fixing my starting mistakes. Will try to avoid them in the future. By chance, Lwt doesn't has a sack full of the rest of Papermoon's lyrics? ;)
Rhonda D'Vine 08:07, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
Trying to be laconic this time:
  • both mentioned pages now lack only Credits info (lyricist + composer) to be declared Silver. Moreover - you may make them even Golden, just certifying them.
  • DoneGreen done already
--Senvaikis (talk) 20:30, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
I hope this won't be seen as abuse of this thread if I continue here, it's somewhat related. ;)
About itunes, goear, amazon and the other data that is wanted by the Song Info template, do you know whether someone has a bot that can complete these information? It looks like a perfect job for a bot. :)
Also, I am a bit puzzled that the album back-link from the song pages themself aren't bot'ed yet, I noticed a fair amount of missing album entries in Thomas D and wonder if that couldn't get scripted too. Maybe I should dig into bot writing myself, do you have a hint on that grounds? Or a place where I could drop artist pages and an already existing bot would go through the albums and songs linked from there and check that the Song macro has the Album set, at least the main album in case there are multiple ones (like from best of albums) ...
Rhonda D'Vine 07:30, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

I'm back!!

Hello! Been a long time. I'm finally back. Hope things have been good with you. Some big changes around here, I see! Anything major I should know about? I'm a bit rusty, but I'm sure I'll pick things up again quickly. With me not being on at all the last few months, I'm surprised that I only fell 9 places on the Leaderboard (from #23 to #34). Sad to know only a few are truly commited. Anyway, I know we don't bother with Gracenote, but if an album has a title listed with punctuation one way, but Gracenote has it another, how do I link them? Is there a template for this sort of thing? I can't imagine that there isn't, just need to know it! Thank you! BeatriceBlue 07:13, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back, Beatrice!
  • @Changes: I'm not very happy about most of them, especially new edit preview. Yes, I know - that's senility...
  • @GN-linking tl: no, I don't know about such tl, even if it exists at all.
Cheers, --Senvaikis (talk) 13:39, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

Changes to Thomas D

Thanks for cleaning up some of the formating mistakes in the page, helps me to learn about the ft macro and artist info with respect to related artists.

The related artists is where I would like to hook in: You added Nina Hagen to related artists because she did the Song Thomas D:Solo together with him. Now I wonder: The whole album Thomas D:Solo (1997) contains of songs that feature other artists. Do you really think it's beneficial to have them all listed as related artists? Would grow a fair amount of related artists, to be honest, and the relationship isn't that close I would think.

If they all should be listed, should all artists that did contribute to the album "A Tribute To Die Fantastischen Vier" (wasn't able to find that yet, will create it ;)) be listed as related to Die Fantastischen Vier too? Should a relationship be done in both directions?

Thanks, Rhonda D'Vine 09:34, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

You are right - relationship, limitedd only by one or two featurings, shouldn't be treated as sufficient argument to including in related artists list. Feel free to remove NH from that list if you know that this relationship doesn't meet your criterias, - I just added her, trying to fill somehow the left part of ai table ;).
I have one more doubt about my addition to TD page - I mean the last album and especially its lyrics (they are just simple clones of previous Lektionen. I'm not sure if this album should be added at all. Let me know if you think it should be removed together with all songs on it.
--Senvaikis (talk) 09:52, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Btw, about Nina Hagen: seems that song Solo should have two separate pages for versions on album Solo (1997) and on single Solo (1998) (see dog), cause lyrics of both versions are slightly different (see solo & feat.). --Senvaikis (talk) 10:18, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
It's not a question whether it would match my criteria, it matters whether it matches lyricswiki criterias! I'll have to read up on that, but I guess my feeling might be more towards the reason here, though. ;)
About your changes to the "new" album of Reflektor Falke 2011, my feeling is that it should be listed nevertheless. Yes, the lyrics are the same, but the music is said to be different (I only saw a video of Thomas D where he spoke about it, haven't listened/bought the album yet). From what I understood he wanted to give the lyrics a new cover with different tunes and thus make them sound differently, but the lyrics remain unchanged. It was (and still) is a concept album with respect to the lyrics, and that's his vision.
So the question here is: We do list cover versions (like, Wise Guys:More Than Words which originally is Extreme:More Than Words, or Guano Apes:Big In Japan which originally is Alphaville:Big In Japan, so why shouldn't an artist be allowed to cover himself?
Todo for myself: Go through the covers that I'm aware of and list them properly, hints for the macros are in the Big In Japan pages above. ;)
Again, thanks, Rhonda D'Vine 10:09, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
P.S.: Do you know whether it's possible to get my account renamed? I noticed that actually noone uses their realname on here, and Rhonda D'Vine is much more my real identity, which I already use in my signature ...
@PS: You should ask Sean about this, I think. --Senvaikis (talk) 10:18, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
About Thomas D:15 Min Of Fame, there is Thomas D:15 Min. Of Fame (notice the difference in the dot after Min), and I wanted to take a look at the lyrics (to cert them) and then turn the other page into a redirect, people might have put both writings into their song infos and/or search for both writings. Actually I would even make 15 Minutes Of Fame to redirect there, but the official writing is with the dot from what I can tell.
You are always are free to make backward redirect (from min. to min) or even make a new page Minutes and redir both min & min. to minutes :) cheers, --Senvaikis (talk) 10:32, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
And with respect to the Song Solo, it is quite common that single versions do have different lyrics (or even not just one different lyric but even multiple of them through remixes and stuff), personally I want to cover only the Album versions because that's what I have myself - anyone else is free to cover the singles when they have them and are able to cert. I personally only want to put lyrics in that I can cert. :) Rhonda D'Vine 10:25, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

moving Wish from Thomas D to Franka Potente

Tricky move. People will search it on Thomas D's page, even though you are right, the single is advertised as "Franka Potente feat. Thomas D" (at least on amazon), though the cover itself does write "Franka Potente & Thomas D". A link from Thomas D's page definitely should be kept, but I'm uncertain in what way that could happen by the rules - you are #1 and thus are the more authoritative person with respect to such things. ;)

Thanks again, Rhonda D'Vine 11:26, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

P.S.: you are too productive for me, tough to keep up with your speed!

P.P.S.: Do you speak German at all, by chance? :)

  1. Usually section "Collaborations" may be used for links to other appearances of such kind
  2. Productive doesn't necessarily mean authoritative...
  3. Leider weiß ich nicht; do you speak Lithuanian, by chance? ;)
--Senvaikis (talk) 12:17, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Just A Moment Of your Time...

Alright, all I needed was, in Mastedon. In the 'Other Songs' list, there is a song called 'Blood And Thunder', that is usually confused. 'Blood and Thunder' was a song by the metal group Mastodon. Not to be confused with Mastedon. Anyway, I wanted to know how to delete it without that bot bothering me. Tongue

Thanks! -ÂØˇÂ⁄⁄ 17:05, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Seems to me we've talked about that already - deletion wouldn't help you in such case - sooner or later someone (or something, like bot) would reupload mistitled lyrics... Use better redirect instead, and you'll: a)avoid reuploading; b)not need admin assistance. Anyways - doneDoneGreen.
Cheers, --Senvaikis (talk) 17:46, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
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