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New iTunes format: regex'es with samples

  1. Artist: http://itunes\.apple\.com/((?<story>[a-z]{2})/)?artist/((?<artist>.*?)/)?id(?<artistID>\d+)
    • http://itunes.apple.com/gb/artist/uriah-heep/id139775
    • http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/uriah-heep/id139775
    • http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/id139775
    • http://itunes.apple.com/artist/uriah-heep/id139775
    • http://itunes.apple.com/artist/abracadabra/id139775
    • http://itunes.apple.com/artist/id139775
  2. Album: http://itunes\.apple\.com/((?<story>[a-z]{2})/)?album/((?<album>.*?)/)?id(?<albumID>\d+)
    • http://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/look-at-yourself/id250453528
    • http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/look-at-yourself/id78681
    • http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/id78681
    • http://itunes.apple.com/album/look-at-yourself/id78681
    • http://itunes.apple.com/album/abracadabra/id78681
    • http://itunes.apple.com/album/id78681
  3. Song: http://itunes\.apple\.com/((?<story>[a-z]{2})/)?album/((?<album>.*?)/)?id(?<albumID>\d+)?i=(?<songID>\d+)
    • http://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/look-at-yourself/id250453528?i=250453535
    • http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/look-at-yourself/id78681?i=78671
    • http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/id78681?i=78671
    • http://itunes.apple.com/album/look-at-yourself/id78681?i=78671
    • http://itunes.apple.com/album/abracadabra/id78681?i=78671
    • http://itunes.apple.com/album/id78681?i=78671
Notes about optional groups
  • If iTunes story country is ommited, "us" is supposed
  • Artist or album title groups haven't any influence to the link - they may be substituted by any text or simply ommited (same as @akuma, not like amz)
Resume

So, new-style *f.iTunes might look like:

ArtistFooter
  • |iTunes = 139775 (not sure, but seems that artistIDs are the same for all countries; if so - no need for ?s=)
AlbumFooter
  • |iTunes = 78681 (for USA story; &s=143441)
  • |iTunes = 250453528?s=gb (for UK story; &s=143444)
SongFooter
  • |iTunes = 78681?i=78671 (for USA story)
  • |iTunes = 250453528?i=250453535?s=gb (for UK story)

--Senvaikis (talk) 14:07, November 14, 2009 (UTC)posted in a weak hope to liven up new iT stuff solution

I think the letters "id" should be left in in templates for the ease of copy/pasting (double click highlights a whole word) and to make it easier on newcomers because a number by it self is more ambiguous. LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 06:43, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Touch

Hey, could you touch the pages you moved afterwards again so they disappear from the category? And could you please touch these? Thanks, 18:05, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

DoneGreen, but not sure if that helps--Senvaikis (talk) 19:41, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
P.S. Hope you've noticed that pages with non-empty destination weren't moved. It seemed for me that some of them should be redirected instead of moving. --Senvaikis (talk) 19:56, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
Hi, Chris. Noticed changes in your movables list. Processed all nodes with empty destinations. Once again - list items with non-empty destination weren't moved - they contained pages, which should be redirected, not moved (see this f.e.). We've been talking about that already - cyborg just can't be that judge, deciding which page version should be recognized as being 'lawful'. So, if you wanna put this process on some more regular backbone, we must describe it more strictly.
BTW - this post saving was blocked by spamfilter, so I was forced to whitelist your hosted site address ;) --Senvaikis (talk) 09:03, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
Well, I know my lists were blocked (seems to be "http://*.funpic.*" block); why do you think I had to post that "redirect"-link earlier all the time? ;)
As you know I've got a complete funpic-account now (which I only created so I can provide you with "XML", feel honoured^^); if you want to, I can create a ftp-account only for Lwt in its own directory so it can post a log file of pages that weren't moved - I'll give you my desired format (which is very easy but extremely helpful). Then it's me again who could work with the list easily, compare contents and redirect pages afterwards...
So decide if that ftp-posting of logs is ok with you, and if so, I'll give you a small blueprint of how the logs are to build. - Chris 15:19, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Big plans

Senv, could you imagine working together with me? I thought, maybe we could do more of these "shared TBI projects" together, all based on certain files stored on my server, all with a defined XML-structure that Lwt can work with. What I had in mind f. e. is that my scripts may generate XML for every artistpage I visit, and I just store these jobs in one big XML file, upload it after a while and Lwt cares for it anytime later - just a bit like a queue for Lwt, so I can just copy and paste the automatically generated jobs, and then relax^^ That'd be great!
There might be a method to make it even more comfortable: you needed these "emtpy"-parameters... To get these, I had to strike a new path regarding my Greasemonkey scripts: I used "gm_xmlhttpRequest" for the first time to send queries to the LW-API (method GET). But maybe I am even able to create a POST-request with GM, which is handled by some interface I designed and feed the data into a MySQL database. If this is possible, I can just "log" these pages in the background whenever I'm surfing through LW, and from time to time I use my DB to check the entries and eventually generate a XML file for Lwt.
This is the same idea like my "AutoFix" script - as I edit and save the pages anyways I can automatically tidy it up at once, can't I..? But we'll see what future brings, and maybe you rather want to write a completely new program just for these TBI-projects than adapting Lwt all the time? - Chris 15:19, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Yep, formerly I used to be none the less enthusiastic and keen like now you are... Glad to see a good relief in nearest LW future :).
...Usually such introductions are being followed up by ponderous explanation why all above ideas are inoperable. I'll not follow this scenario, at least partially ;), saying in the first instance: ok, if you have any good idea how such cooperation may be more productive compared to working individually - you'll have all my/Lwt support. All we need for that - well measured task/goal, demonstrating benefits of such cooperation and well defined roles, procedures and rules of cooperation. Don't you feel we are coming critically close to above mentioned ponderous evasiveness part ?;). No? Then ok :). Thank heavens you are programmer, so I don't need to explain how Sisyphean may be programmer's job, if task were thoughtless.
Now I can say in good conscience all the rest I wanted to say :) While we'll be working in any common project, - keep going to develop your own tools - much less you are on a right way: all Lwt's job is based on HttpRequest GETtings and POSTings. So, instead of giving you a fish, I'd be happier teaching you fishing :). Don't know what programming language you are using, but I'm sure that samples, written in VB.NET, one of most easy-readable proglangs, could be a good start for such 'fishing' :).
That's not yet all what I wanted to write here, but sorry, - must leave for a while. Once more - you have my 'ok'; - try to formulate your first task :) gl, --Senvaikis (talk) 19:49, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
Hehe, yeah I know these plans sound quite impossible, but I recently set up a project just like that one xD (It now works perfectly, HTML, JS, PHP and MySQL all together - maybe not the first choice but it worked absolutely fail-safe until now).
I'm programming in Delphi which was developed for schools and is based on Turbo-Pascal. In spite of all teachers always telling us that this certainly is not the programming language we're going to use later, yet it's the only one compilable to executable programs I have learned so far. So I use it and as long as I am able to do what I need most, it's fine with me.
I've seen a bit VB.NET and I think it's a great language because you've got so many possibilities you certainly have not with Delphi (I once looked into the Vista-Gadgets for CPU - it looks like JavaScript but it's so much more powerful). Java would be a fine thing too, but I think I'll learn VB.NET.
However, these "defined roles, procedures and rules of cooperation" you're talking of is what I meant when I wrote "certain files with a defined XML-structure" - on boths sides we have to be able to rely on that every agreement is fully kept. So I say what I expect to happen, you tell me how the list-format has to be so you can work best, and I'll do my best to get the absolutely safe standard closest to your desired format. It's like pushing two blocks together, both sides get nearer to each other until they meet.
Ok, enough with the theory. What I "need" are just two things so far:
  • List I can upload to move pages to another destination
  • List of pages that are to be touched
These are the two forms of tasks that are very time-consuming by hand, especially when it comes to big lists.
Well... Actually, I think it wouldn't hurt if every page was touched once, because some pages are not showing up in the categories they are in (until you touch them, then they do) - I guess the move caused quite a mess in the category-system. - Chris 22:18, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
Hey Chris, I like where you're heading with this. I've had the same ideas with building a local database of artists, albums and songs and generating the wikitext from that to update pages. I didn't have enough time/dedication to put into the project (I started building a bot, but there where some problems with the API that made it a pain in the arse, so I didn't get it working fully). I've thought a few times that a wiki isn't as good as a database for a lyric database, but it did make it very accessible for the community to sculpt what we've got now (in stead of rhttp://images.wikia.com/common/releases_201001.1/skins/common/images/button_sig.pngequiring changes to PHP for a small change to anything to be made). I'll be keeping an eye on what you're progress on this front :P. LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 03:41, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Well, - then what we are waiting for, Chris? --Senvaikis (talk) 09:51, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Just to answer your question: I'm waiting for some free time on my hands to write the scripts ;) Maybe I can finish some other projects later so I delay them to get these plans moved upwards in my plans-queue^^ - Chris 21:23, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Hi Senv, I'm here to inform you about a new move-list available for Lwt: move_NP.xml contains the wrongly named pages from Special:NewPages. Format is the same like move.xml, which is named move_DEP.xml now. Old "move.xml" just remains in case Lwt tries to import the file under that name before you read this note. Please let me know when you changed it in Lwt. Please note the new ID-format in order to distinguish between DEP and NP as sources. - Chris 01:55, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

  • move_NP.xml DoneGreen
  • move_DEP.xml DoneGreen
  • move.xml DoneGreen
--Senvaikis (talk) 11:11, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! I deleted move.xml now. - Chris 18:24, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
Off-topic, but maybe this is useful for you: User:LWChris/Sandbox - Chris 23:35, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Hey Senv,

remember the plan I got to actively search for LW:PN cases instead of waiting for them to appear on any list? Well, that "dream" became reality last night with completion of my "LWPNE" (LW:PN Enforcer). It browses through currently 59 "Songs XY" categories, and searches for Jobs Lwt could do. I would've done moving the pages on my own, but somehow the API doesn't recognize my program after I logged in (which works quite fine). So there are plenty of jobs to do for times when LWT isn't too busy: until now it found 4,063 LWT-movable pages (those with an empty destinationpage) - and it's gotten to "Songs K" which is category #28 of 59. I uploaded 19 of them, the other 9 category-lists were empty. =) Thank you =D - Chris 11:10, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I'll queue this job in Lwt's joblist asap as it finish with a UB's bluster (and when mentioned upload directory will not be empty, as now is ;)).
Regarding api, ignoring your programm. Seems to me I know the reason of your problem. I'm pretty sure you missed one detail: "POST" requests must be authorised to be processed, and cookies are used for that. While your api is just reading data, using "GET" requests, cookies aren't necessary. But for posting you must use cookiecontainered webrequests, containing your account data for current session. In other words, your programm must login into api with your account, then request a token to perform a data-modifying action for active edit session, then fill cookiecontainer with required info and use it on every post request. hth, --Senvaikis (talk) 12:21, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
All files have no header <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>. ...And seems that's not all problems with them (encoding, I suppose). -- Senvaikis (talk) 14:37, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah I noticed after I had uploaded it and went to my friend. I've got problems with my FTP account, sometimes I delete files and they are not visible in the FTP uploader but still available at the webspace, or the other way round with upload. I don't know, sometimes files disappear directly after upload from the GUI of the uploader, and sometimes it asks me if I want to overwrite files that aren't even visible at the webspace. I think it's a caching issue. - Chris 20:28, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
I found the reason, it was saving UTF-8 encoded text in an ISO-8859-15 encoded file. I'll copy and paste the contents to correctly encoded files. Did that for Songs A and it worked. Found >8000 pages so far. - Chris 20:42, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Re:

Oh, Well, I'm sorry I didn't realise. I read the page on restoreing deleted pages and it said that any admin would be willing to listen to any cause for restoration and that's why I made such a comment. I wouldn't really say it was a complaint, more of a strongly worded comment Computer says no 21:29, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

That's ok, let's close this topic - I saw your latter comments to the mentioned post ;). I can add only that the same pagenaming rules ("ArtistName:SongTitle") should be applied to other your edition too :). Happy editing and always feel free to ask for a help;) --Senvaikis (talk) 21:42, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

A little help please

I wonder if you can also help me with a little problem I have. I have made a page called Follow Follow and there seems to be a problem with that the sidebar cuts across and is positioned over the text after a few seconds and I can't see anything wrong with the way I worded it so could you sort out this mess for me please? Computer says no 21:35, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Lol, I was talking about this page just a minute ago (see above). Ok, I'll look at it, cu--Senvaikis (talk) 21:44, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
Ok, after a brief look at the page I fixed only two of three problems in it:
  1. lyrics should be enclosed between <lyrics>...</lyrics> tags. (clock this - closing tag differs from opening one) DoneGreen
  2. song page must contain SongFooter template at the end. DoneGreen
  3. and the last - you should know a performer of the song before making a page for song. Then if the artist name is Rangers F.C., song page should be titled as Rangers F.C.:Follow Follow. I didn't change the title of page (that's equivalent to moving page), since I don't know such artist. So, if you know the artist, you can move the page yourself or just tell me, and I'll do that for you.
hth, --Senvaikis (talk) 22:07, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
P.S. And take it easy, but once more: - please, spend a little time studying help docs and examples how things should be done before editing - that's the best way of time saving. I say this after your last redirection, breaking our pagenaming policy again ;) --Senvaikis (talk) 22:19, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
Yep... Seems we are talking about anthem of the Rangers F.C., a football club in Glasgow. Then Rangers F.C. is surely not a performer of this record :D. I managed to find one stadium anthems album "Blue Anthems", containing this anthem, performed by "The Ibrox Quartet". Then your page should be titled as The Ibrox Quartet:Follow Follow. Happy editing, --Senvaikis (talk) 23:29, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Hello!

Hi Senvaikis, I just wanted to stop by and introduce myself. I'm Kacie, from Wikia Entertainment, and I'll be helping out and producing content here on the wiki. Thanks for all of your great work here! I've just created an article for the 2010 Grammy Awards, and I'm wondering if you could help me recruit users to fill in the remaining nominees for this year. We're trying to get finished by the end of the week, so any help would be greatly appreciated! It's right here: http://lyrics.wikia.com/Grammys. If you need anything or have any questions, please let me know. Cheers---- Kacie@fandom (talk) 18:15, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

GN Takedown stuff

Hey Senv,
Sorry I didn't leave an explanation of this stuff ahead of time, but more details are here LyricWiki_talk:Community_Portal#GracenoteBot.27s_takedowns
-Sean Colombo 21:44, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

What's this?

http://lyrics.wikia.com/index.php?title=Free:Heartbreaker_%281973%29&diff=next&oldid=6114233 - Chris 16:03, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Have no idea. Hesitate to affirm, but that may be result of inattentive manual edit under Lwt account or some other undebuggable process, as program crash. --Senvaikis (talk) 20:13, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
http://lyrics.wikia.com/index.php?title=Taylor_Swift:Jump_Then_Fall&diff=next&oldid=6381967
Maybe you hit the button unintentionally? - Chris 21:53, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
http://lyrics.wikia.com/index.php?title=Journey%3ASend_Her_My_Love&diff=5977977&oldid=5735278
- Chris 21:53, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
This last (Lwt)example isn't interesting at all - there are a lot of pages with such "unintentional inserts". That usually happens due to lagging page skin transformations under low connection speed. --Senvaikis (talk) 22:09, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

thanks

thanks! --Treaki 20:07, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'm in light confusion (having any idea for what your thanks are), but you are welcome :) --Senvaikis (talk) 20:16, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
you have add the language english to Dopewalka:Turn Around, Think Again
Gotcha :) thx, --Senvaikis (talk) 20:31, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Cosmic Blues (2000)

Hello! A user told me to delete this album (it's unofficial [1] and it isn't listed in wikipedia) but since you created the page I wanted to ask you first. Do you have any info of it being official? Thanks! :) Titaki 12:38, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

No other info but MB & Dog (btw, asin link is wrong - pointing to mp3 track instead of album). So feel free to remove this page and links to it (if present), if all songs were released on other, oficial albums (most are included in Ultra). --Senvaikis (talk) 14:04, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

The Kinks Other Songs

Thanks for leaving me a note. Where did all these "other" songs come from? What is "Oblivion"? --Rossetyler 07:01, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

"Oblivion" is our nickname for song pages that aren't linked on any artist or album page, but aren't really "orphaned" either (i.e. they don't appear in Special:LonelyPages), because they have a redirect (or two) linking to them. Because they don't appear on any special page, there is no sure-fire automated way to retrieve them. — 6×9 (Talk) 09:15, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
To make 6's explanations more obvious, they may be illustrated by two samples with songs of another artist you've edited.
So, now Robyn Hitchcock's OS list should be appended by 8 items, and only one of them was in real Oblivion. But this list may increase ominously for such performers as The Kinks, The Byrds or Nick Cave And The Bad Seeds, due to large possible redirects count (from Kinks, Byrds or Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds/Nick Cave). hth, --Senvaikis (talk) 13:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
@6: Thx, - this is it :). Btw, - how do matters stand with {{ITunes}}? --Senvaikis (talk) 13:49, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
Nag, nag  ;-) I understood that Sean was going to handle it, and he already made a test template; no idea if he did any actual testing with it. Do you think you can hold out a bit longer, or should I start fiddling with it? — 6×9 (Talk) 14:09, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 :) I can hold out a bit longer... but I saw mentioned test also, and seems to me that your fiddling would be desirable ;) --Senvaikis (talk) 14:37, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, that makes sense. So, is there some periodic polling of/in "Oblivion" to parent these pages (can I expect this to happen regularly)? I am curious - if these pages are not listed anywhere (e.g. Robyn Hitchcock:A Man's Gotta Know His Limitations, Briggs), how does one find them (short of waiting for an "Oblivion" poll that reparents them somewhere)?
Sigh, I guess there is a lot of clean up to do. --Rossetyler 17:29, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
I've started by fixing the Robyn Hitchcock & The Venus 3 "Briggs" songs - thereby destroying its further use as an example (sorry). --Rossetyler 17:38, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
@R:Sorry for delay in answering to your questions about oblivion managing - if you'd like, later I may describe the algorithm of "fishing" in oblivion. For a while I'll stop short at saying that it's not a very easy task for non-cyber-editor. But you always can ask me (/Lwt) to make this job for you.
Nice joke about destroyed samples, btw :). I'd like all samples of such kind to be destroyed :). Happy editing, --Senvaikis (talk) 06:44, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Changing broken accents to '

like here is very confusing, because it doesn't look like there was something missing although every ' is for a missing character. Do you still do that? If so, please stop it and leave � because the questionmarks are attracting the attention much better to the missing accented characters.

Bad enough BotUm changed {{Accent}} to a violet star like here. With {{Accent}} the pages were at least sorted into the category so you could have a look at the language you're good at and fix errors, now they are just in Category:Violet Songs amongst 18k others, so no one will look at them.

I'm going through every violet song now and re-apply {{Accent}} (or apply green star if the problems were fixed). Unfortunately I cannot edit the pages by bot, because the bot can't use � as reference anymore as Lwt changed them into ' =( - Chris 18:20, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

I'll not comment your magisterial "stop it", and try to believe you just couldn't puzzle out that last edits of such kind have at least ~one year age. Otherwise... In either case - looks blue. --Senvaikis (talk) 21:55, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
Of course I noticed these edits were from 2008. But I wouldn't have asked you if I was sure you weren't about to maybe run the script again.
"magisterial"? =S There was a "please" before. =D I think you know what I mean by "the questionmarks are attracting the attention much better". It's harder to search for ' than for � when correcting the mistakes.
I hope you know I didn't want to command you around but am trying to state my point of view on what's better in my opinion - which never means that I'm convinced of only mine is the correct one. Hopefully you did not feel too offended. =( Sorry - Chris 23:04, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

.

Senv... =( please tell me what's wrong, I basically hoped you would rather point out what the changes were intended to afford than be offended by my choice of words. I'm sure you didn't change them for fun, so I wanted to know and asked, unfortunately indirect when trying to say something that I can't even express in my mother tongue with one word; all I wanted to reach is to discuss the reason for Lwt's changes before maybe editing back.
Even more, I actually hoped for some masterplan to quicken the re-applying of {{Accent}} with language parameter. I'm currently searching for %EF%BF%BD in lyrics, which is hexcode for � and then adding the template with the "language" parameter from SF.
Sorry, please don't be mad with me. "Do you still do that? If so, please stop it" should've been "Could you explain why Lwt changed it and if another run is intended please hold on with it until my script is done because it needs the questionmarks as reference", and nothing else was meant. - Chris 01:25, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
Aren't you going to put the poor guy out of his misery, Senv?
@Chris: Don't worry, I've done far worse things to Senv in the past, and he's still talking to me :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 19:47, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
@6: Your are right as always, - thanks for your words of wisdom :)
@CHris - Forgive me, an oldman, for a bad mood, and follow me - trust 6 :).
--Senvaikis (talk) 20:07, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
P.S. After rereading what I've just wrote I realized that my words may be misunderstood again, so I better rewrite them: don't follow me in style of communication, - just follow me in trusting 6 :). --Senvaikis (talk) 20:20, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, of course! Senv, I'm not resentful. =)
Finally, my funpic account was fixed. All data was lost, but I've uploaded my backups. There are 6 xml files for moving now. Some issues may be already fixed. - Chris 19:30, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

  • move_NP.xml DoneGreen (some of them were fixed by 6 already)
  • move_DEP.xml DoneGreen
  • sorry, but I'm positivelly not smart enough to calculate four remaining files addresses ;)
  • and last note: try to open move_NP.xml in FF, IE or GC, and you'll get an error like that: "A semi colon character was expected. Error processing resource". The reason is an ampersand ("Spiritualized:Songs in A&E" in this case), which is a special character in XML and should be replaced by &amp;. That's not crucial problem for me/Lwt (we are able to make required replaces before parsing the xml), but in general, for xml-standards and canons of good manners sake, that should be fixed.
--Senvaikis (talk) 21:25, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
Directories are free to inspect ;) other 4 pages are move_NP_2.xml to move_NP_5.xml. & done, I usually just forget to search & replace. - Chris 01:27, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
4xDoneGreen. Btw, check uppercasing procedure - sometimes it fails (nodes NP_2010326_16-18 in move_NP_5.xml).--Senvaikis (talk) 19:06, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, it didn't look for ":<lc>" - will be fixed next time. Oh, and could you please touch pages in Category:Song Template on Translation Page - I'm sure they'll all disappear then. Thank you so much for your help. =D - Chris 02:30, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
DoneGreen; (STOTP.count: 658 -> 1). --Senvaikis (talk) 09:40, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

SAHB Credits

My LP and CD reissue give (partial writing) credit to D. Batchelor on Jungle Jenny. There is also the download that can be referenced from this: http://www.allcdcovers.com/show/53925/the_sensational_alex_harvey_band_the_penthouse_tapes_1975_retail_cd/back

Do you think otherwise?

Separately, David Batchelor is given production credit for the album.

Also, thanks for making my unresolvable LW links resolve to something meaningful (e.g. WP). I didn't know one could do this. I would like your advice: What do you consider when creating/modifying such links? I was thinking that one should create a link in hopes that someday it would be resolved. --Rossetyler 22:38, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

First of all - thanks for your valuable contribution to LW and SAHB particulary, for two reasons: (i)I appreciate your style of work; (ii) now I hope we both like some same oldies ;)
Now about credits links: frankly speaking, revisions you are speaking about were made intentionally - with a hope to provoke you for discussion ;). But beforehand I must say - all my arguments should be treated only as my opinion, not some imperative instructions. Ok, let's start.
So, what internal LW-link may point to? Naturally - to any LW-page owner (song, album, performer etc.) That means that while making such link your are sure that such page does exist on LW or, as you reasonably noticed - should exist on LW and sooner or later will be resolved by someone. But wait - who may be an owner of a page on LW? Song performer. Do you really hope that some day sound engineer David Batchelor will have a page on LW? ;) I don't. The same should be said about credits to lyricists, managers, designers etc. I'd said even more - even not all musicians (performers), mentioned in credits, are potential owners of LW page, because they haven't (and will not) released their personal records. So, how should we hope that such link will be ever 'resolved'?
Returning to David Batchelor - by no means I didn't 'deprive' well-deserved credits from him; I just relinked them from LW, having no DB-dedicated page David Batchelor, to existing WP page David Batchelor (sound engineer). Which link is more informative in your opinion?
Once more - thanks for your help on SAHB page; nite, --Senvaikis (talk) 23:49, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
Your advice makes a lot of sense. I agree with it. Unfortunately, in order to follow it, one is burdened with figuring out who these people are. I was simply copying credits from the album to the LW page without evaluating who the people were. Sigh, I will accept this burden and revisit the SAHB credits I have done today. I appreciate your guidance.
I think you misunderstood the David Batchelor issue on Jungle Jenny. I wrote:
S.A.H.B. / David Batchelor
as this is what the song credits say. You changed this to
thus giving no writing credits to David Batchelor. I don't think that is what you meant to do, is it?
Speaking, apparently, to a SAHB fan, maybe you can answer this question: Is the second album named "Next" or "Next..."? After investigating this, I personally think there is no correct answer but I do have an opinion. I wonder what yours is.
Oh, and BTW, if you ever run across a collarless black and yellow striped rugby shirt like Alex's, let me know. I have been looking for over 36 years. --Rossetyler 02:09, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
  • @DB: Sure, if you have any info that DB did participate in song writing (not producing, as told in wp), you may return him writing credits, instead of producing. Hope you understand that wasn't the main idea of my changes.
  • @'burdening': I'd suggest very simple solution: if you have no idea who's the person, mentioned in credits - just don't burden yourself by linking to LW ;). Very likelly that may be lyricist or composer or whoever, who'll never have a page on LW. Have't I mentioned that I hate red-links in LW? ;) Provide LW links only to those, who does or, in your opinion, should have LW page.
  • @"Next": to be precise - surely "Next...". See LW:PN: "Artist, song and album pages should be named as close as possible to the original name". I haven't seen any release cover with title "Next", without "...". The fact that most inet sources, used in LW for referencing (wp, mb, amz, amg, iT, acuma etc) represent this album as "Next", may be explained just by some technical (searching etc.) reasons. So we should do one of two: move "Next" to "Next.." or, if we decide it's not worth to do, - create page "Next...", redirected to "Next". I'd prefer first solution, regardless to the fact who was the creator of the page ;). (Most of album pages, created by me/Lwt, are based on auto-info, taken from mentioned sources).
  • @Rugby shirt: ok, though with a little hope I'll be more succesfull than you :)
--Senvaikis (talk) 16:41, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
I'm glad to see that we think alike on this issues.
@"Next": The spine and labels of my LP say "Next", the song is named "Next". It is only the front cover that says "Next...". However, I used to have a T shirt that said "Next..." so I vote with you. Since we agree, the next (excuse the pun) thing I will do is move/rename LW to "Next...".
@red-links: I'm with you. Even my own signature bugs me. Sorry: ---Rossetyler 20:55, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
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