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"Si tú me olvidas"

Hi LS.

Do you happen to know where and when Sting performed "Si tú me olvidas"?  · Lichtweber talk service  06:53, February 12, 2016 (UTC)

You could ask me about that yesterday, lw ;). I'm pretty sure that's one of countless inet hoaks, this time related to soundtrack to Il Postino, where Sting reads PNs poem ("Morning"), alongside with Madonna, reading "If You Forget Me" YouTube Icon - English version of "Si tú me olvidas". --Senvaikis (talk) 12:25, February 12, 2016 (UTC)
No, I don't know anything about that song. Sorry.
~-- Looksharp (talk) 18:08, February 12, 2016 (UTC)

Your confusion at a song being gold

Hi Looksharp. A few weeks ago you asked Senvaikis why a song I Golded was Gold, and never responded (which I expected, because you told me you often don't respond to talk page messages right away). Was there something you didn't understand about why the page was Gold? It has everything a Gold page needs, and considering you've worked with page ranks quite thoroughly already, the fact that you asked this has confused me. So feel free to let me know if you have any concerns with it. XxTimberlakexx (talk) (contribs)00:06, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

I don't remember. I guess it wasn't a big deal. I'll take a look. Thanks for the message.
-- Looksharp (talk) 00:10, February 16, 2016 (UTC)
No problem. Did you ever take a look at it? XxTimberlakexx (talk) (contribs)14:42, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
Yes. What I remember is that all the song footer information wasn't filled in. I remembered Senv's insistence that "all possible information" be filled in to upgrade to gold. When I looked again, after you mentioned it, all the song footer information was filled in.
-- Looksharp (talk) 16:07, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
I believe you misinterpreted - not all of the SongFooter needs to be filled in for a song to be Gold. The only required parameters in SongFooter for Gold are asin, iTunes, and goear/spotify. XxTimberlakexx (talk) (contribs)16:39, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
It's not a misinterpretation. I was quoting what Senv told me. All possible info. If that's wrong, I've been doing it wrong for six months. If so, I would like to see a better explanation in the documentation of just what is required to upgrade a song, album, or artist to gold. Yes, I have read the documentation, many times. If I find the passage of Senv's instructions from his Talk page, I'll link to it. I should add that having a non-English speaker writing English documentation might not be the best idea.
-- Looksharp (talk) 17:12, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
@LS: While choosing between two advices, - one based on belief and other - on lw:docs, I'd recommend to follow the latter, saying that "all remaining optional parameters in the SongFooter, i.e. those relating to external links, (should be) checked and completed" :)
Should I remind that this quote is taken from lw:docs, not from my "passages"? --Senvaikis (talk) 18:01, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
So Timberlake is wrong when he says "not all of the SongFooter needs to be filled in for a song to be Gold."?
-- Looksharp (talk) 18:15, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
Strange question. Isn't it obvious that Nic's interpetation differs from lw:docs requirements? So, either he's wrong or lw:pr docs for Au should be changed. --Senvaikis (talk) 18:45, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
Actually, I'm going to interject with: no, it's not very obvious, as me, Nic and LS (and others) all seem to have the same interpretation of the docs atm. Possibly due to the "optional parameters" in your quote from the docs in regards to MB, AllM etc. While my inner perfectionist does try and fill out all parameters, I've never thought that I had to from a doc perspective.
My question: why are they "optional" if they had to be filled out anyway? Are they only optional if they're not available? But then some songs can still be gold even if there are no ASIN or iT links available, does that make these links "optional"? What is or isn't optional definitely needs to be clearer, IMO - Patzilla777 (talk - contributions) 18:58, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
I thought "optional" meant only if you are not ranking pages. When upgrading a song to Gold, there is no optional information. It's only a matter of what information is available. Whatever information is available must be included.
--Looksharp (talk) 19:25, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
(e.c.) The term "optional parameter", contrary to mandatory one, means that its ommiting just isn't considered as a flaw or even mistake. Hope you agree that the distance between a page without mistakes and a perfect page is rather big, and only optional parameters filling in with available info may eliminate this distance (at least that's how I understand current lw:pr requirements for Au). But if these requirements may be interpretted so diferently, docs definitely should be made more unambiguous imo. --Senvaikis (talk) 20:06, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
Since when has it been that all of SongFooter needs to be filled out for Gold? Ever since I've been here, I've only checked/filled in what was listed on the talk page for Gold (album, language, asin, iTunes, spotify/goear, wikipedia, credits, youtube) and I thought that was how it's done. The talk page doesn't ask for any of the optional parameters. If those are required for a Gold song, then maybe we need to change the layout of talk pages, because on Gold songs, the talk page says that "all its information" [is] "either filled in, or marked as not applicable". I always thought this only referred to what we have to check off on the talk page. XxTimberlakexx (talk) (contribs)00:38, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

Quick & Dirty Summary

If it exists and if it is applicable, all of the following must be filled in:
1) Song Header: album(s), year(s), additional album(s), album type(s), artist(s), cover(s), covered(s), (embedded) Youtube link, B-Hits, Wikipedia link.
2) Lyrics and credit
3) Song Footer: fletter, song, language, asin, allmusic, itunes, musicbrainz, spotify, goear, album, youtube.
4) Song Talk Page: watcher, certified lyrics, Song Info marked with "done," "unknown," or "not applicable": album, video (youtube or embedded youtube link), audio (link to spotify or goear or both), language, asin, itunes, wikipedia, credit.
--Looksharp (talk) 19:19, February 21, 2016 (UTC)

To put it bluntly (cld not resist) Qualification for External links is "if available", so a song may be Au'd with at least one of them. Back to start of thread. --ES (talk) 19:22, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
This kind of thing doesn't help -- "may be Au'd" -- when only a little more effort is required to write with clarity "may be upgraded to Gold." Two more letters can turn "cld" into "could."
--Looksharp (talk) 19:29, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
And that is the entire point of having talk pages, so it may lead to resolve the edits or the docs.--ES (talk) 19:31, February 21, 2016 (UTC)

Sam Phillips album

Thought I'd let you know that I created a new Sam Phillips album that surprisingly didn't have a page here yet. You might want to tend to the red links on the album to keep her page complete, as I can't find lyrics to them online (you may have to transcribe by ear). XxTimberlakexx (talk) (contribs)00:44, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

Sam Phillips Songs

Hope you are taking notice of the SP songs that I am editing after you, You can see them, right? --ES (talk) 20:37, February 24, 2016 (UTC)

Is that the way all song headers are supposed to be done now? If so, no one told me. And the documentation will have to be updated.
--Looksharp (talk) 20:39, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
Docs are already updated, and there was a message on the Community Portal, which is a good place for you to follow LW updates. - Patzilla777 (talk - contributions) 23:12, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
Looksharp (talk) 23:13, February 24, 2016 (UTC)

Alice in Wonderland (1951)

Hi LS, why, do you think, did I list songs on this page separately when they are separated by a slash sign?

E.g.: Kathryn Beaumont:Pay Attention / In A World Of My Own. Because they are separate songs. Had you looked into the mb links of songs, you should have noticed that mb refers to "In a World of My Own", not to "Pay Attention / In a World of My Own". Btw. have you thought about broken redirects?

So please revert your edits on the album page and re-rename the song pages. And next time you start such a job, please consider asking someone before you start. Thx  · Lichtweber talk service  07:22, March 9, 2016 (UTC)

I don't know what a broken redirect is. Can you give me an example? Re: Alice in Wonderland. I was thinking about the black links. Senv had recently corrected me on leaving black links, so I thought here was another example of black links that I could fix. I've never known how to handle medleys. According to the Wikpedia entry, the tracks for the Alice in Wonderland CD have titles which combine the songs, e.g. "Pay Attention / In a World of My Own." That's one track (title) composed of two songs despite being separated by slahes. I've seen medleys done inconsistently on Lyric Wikia. So I guess I don't know how to handle them properly.
Looksharp (talk) 15:04, March 9, 2016 (UTC)
I did look at Musicbrainz, but I also looked at how Amazon, Wikpedia, and Allmusic listed the tracks, and they combined the names into one song.—Looksharp (talk) 15:06, March 9, 2016 (UTC)
Broken redirects are pages that link to a page before it was moved, and have not been fixed accordingly. Before you move a page make sure that all the redirects pointing at the old page are fixed. Check Special:WhatLinksHere to find these pages.
It's a good thing to fix "black links", but only if you know what you're doing and if it is coherent in regard to content. So if you're sure that the page you want to rename actually contains all the lyrics that are referred to in new title, and if they're not just two separate songs which were (randomly?) listed as if they were one track, consider moving/merging them. If you're not sure, better keep them separate. Have a look at Chess (1984) and see how you can also note songs/medleys.
And finally, if you move/rename/merge pages make sure the track listing on the album page still contains all the titles that are part of the release.  · Lichtweber talk service  17:26, March 9, 2016 (UTC)
@LW: only problem with Chess (1984) is its' VA designation.... --ES (talk) 17:34, March 9, 2016 (UTC)
Right. Still a construction site of mine...  · Lichtweber talk service  17:41, March 9, 2016 (UTC)
Didn't mean to look too sharp @ your construction sites ;-) --ES (talk) 17:53, March 9, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks to Lichtweber for all the help. ES, what is "VA designation"?
Looksharp (talk) 21:16, March 9, 2016 (UTC)
I notied that Chess doesn't have the artist after it, e.g. "by Björn Ulvaeus & Benny Andersson". Is the "by" designation included on every song of Alice in Wonderland?
Looksharp (talk) 21:31, March 9, 2016 (UTC)
VA = Various Artists --ES (talk) 21:36, March 9, 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately, you did not go through with fixing Alice. Now I did that for you (in one single take, I might add).

Next time you want to start a job like this please make sure you have learned how to find and handle broken redirects (Special:WhatLinksHere, page history, Special:Contributions/Looksharp). "Be sure to check for double or broken redirects. You are responsible for making sure that links continue to point where they are supposed to go."

Please also make sure you got the right track listing for respective release. Those are basics.  · Lichtweber talk service  20:31, March 22, 2016 (UTC)

I admit I still find soundtracks confusing. I don't see the logic in your changes -- and I don't know how I would've known to do it that way unless it's 1) in the documentation, 2) done that way somewhere else on the site.
Song Page -- You used Bob Hilliard, the songwriter, for the prefix in the page title (e.g. Bob Hilliard:Alice In Wonderland) rather than the performer, The Jud Conlon Chorus. That's new to me.
Musicbrainz work -- Putting "work" before a musicbrainz ID is new to me. I've been using no ID or "release group." work/aae4a84a-fc6d-4f05-85b1-dc732ad211ea
Two Songwriters Divided by a Slash and Then Two Perfomers Divided by a Slash -- This is new to me. And medleys are still confusing.
Redirects -- still confusing. —Looksharp (talk) 22:29, March 22, 2016 (UTC)
Bad luck, I'd say: Of all the soundtracks you picked one that is nothing but a big construction site. To date I could not find reliable sources for a track listing of a possible 1951 release. Mind that all external sources (but mb) refer to later recordings/issues. If wp:en can be trusted with this, the track listing would look different. Unfortunately, the mb work page does not give an actual track listing but only lists songs alphabetically.
It doesn't? You think this page is unreliable? [1]. The later recording is a reissue, so the track listing should be the same. [2]
Release years 1: 2001, 2: 2006, not 1951  · Lichtweber talk service  23:24, March 23, 2016 (UTC)
So what you can see now on that page is a mix of a root page for a musical work and a soundtrack recording. That's why things are still inconsistent.  · Lichtweber talk service  20:26, March 23, 2016 (UTC)

I hope that I finally sorted it out.  · Lichtweber talk service  17:39, March 24, 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry about the problems I caused. I'll be more careful. I had been looking at the "Requests for Help" pages and I saw that a lot of work needed to be done on soundtracks, among other places, so I wanted to help. I thought I was ready to do it, but I guess not.
Looksharp (talk) 19:05, March 24, 2016 (UTC)
No problem. I'm sure you'll be able to do stuff like that in the future.  · Lichtweber talk service  19:26, March 24, 2016 (UTC)

Family Guy /Seth MacFarlane

LS, I really appreciate your efforts. But please stop using tons of edits for just one move: it makes revision/correction a hell lot more complicated and it's just not necessary. If you want to move a page make up your mind and only then move it to the right place. Same goes for editing album pages/track listings: usually, one take is enough if you're well prepared. And, as I told you before, take care of all the broken redirs you leave behind.

You're with us long enough now, and I know you're better than that.  · Lichtweber talk service  23:42, March 11, 2016 (UTC)

I know, that was a mistake because I was getting an error message with the double colons in the title, Seth MacFarlane:Family Guy: Live in Las Vegas, so I had to try different title combinations that were accepted. I was getting the message in red letters "Does not meet guidelines," or something like that. Is Seth MacFarlane:Family Guy: Live in Las Vegas an acceptable page title? Or does it have to be Seth MacFarlane:Family Guy Live in Las Vegas? Note the two colons. I've had the double-colon problem before on other pages.
Looksharp (talk) 23:56, March 11, 2016 (UTC)
"Seth MacFarlane:Family Guy Live In Vegas (2005)" is just fine. Please fix the broken redirs.  · Lichtweber talk service  00:04, March 12, 2016 (UTC)
I don't know how to do that. At the bottom of the screen I click on "My Tools," then I click on "What Links Here." That takes me to a page of links. What does this page tell me? What am I supposed to do with it? I need something more specific than "fix it."
Looksharp (talk) 00:22, March 12, 2016 (UTC)
Until you have figured out how to deal with links to redirects, please refuse the urge to move pages. If your wasted edits/moves requires three other admins to clean it up, maybe you may wish to do something else?! --ES (talk) 02:48, March 12, 2016 (UTC)
I don't know what I did wrong. I don't how or why it was corrected, except in the vague sense of "fix broken redirects." That doesn't tell me enough. I need something more specific. I've been redirecting for a long time and no one has complained, so I don't know what to think. As for your comment about three other admins, that's news to me.
Looksharp (talk) 03:04, March 12, 2016 (UTC)
Hate to point it out, but another editor with 70K edits does no better with regards to ltr (Links To Redirects). You have bungee jumped yourself into a situation while unbuckled, and oodles of experience of yours, flapping your arms like a ... bird? won't help you land softly. Best take the stairs, elevator. Refuse the urge.... --ES (talk) 03:16, March 12, 2016 (UTC) I'm keeping it entirely NON Technical

LINKS TO REDIRECTS , aas, ai mods, aa per title

Do you speak English? Because I don't what any of this means: "LINKS TO REDIRECTS, aas, ai mods, aa per title, not personal opinion"
Looksharp (talk) 16:59, March 20, 2016 (UTC)

After looking for the edit in question, I found it:
  1. "LINKS TO REDIRECTS" - fixing any songs which still link to the redirect instead of the new title
  2. "aas" - removing redundant names of album art files in {{Album Art}}
  3. "ai mods" - minor modifications to ArtistInfo
  4. "aa per title, not personal opinion" - probably something to do with the "Gold Stars" album. - Patzilla777 (talk - contributions) 17:23, March 20, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks to the Englishman who is not in New York and has nvr been to London ;-) but can still read my edit comments. --ES (talk) 21:17, March 20, 2016 (UTC)

Avoiding edit conflicts

While I am working on a page it is best not to edit the page, until you can be sure I have saved and left, I have a habit of keeping a page open for edit for hours, to avoid a gazillion minor edits as some sharp editors do. --ES (talk) 21:30, March 27, 2016 (UTC)

You have a habit of working on pages while I'm working on them.
Looksharp (talk) 19:34, May 12, 2016 (UTC)


– em dashes & en dashes are not allowed in page names or page contents. simple - is what we expect--ES (talk) 19:32, May 12, 2016 (UTC)

Where? Do you have a link? I edit in different programs, maybe that's what happened.
Looksharp (talk) 19:35, May 12, 2016 (UTC)
Possibly a cut and paste from Wikipedia.
Looksharp (talk) 19:43, May 12, 2016 (UTC)

Non-ASCII punctuation symbols may display incorrectly in some browsers or plugins and should be replaced by their ASCII equivalents if possible. E.g.: … (ellipsis) should be replaced with three full stops, – and — with a simple hyphen, ` and ´ with ', “ and ” with ".

And the same goes for album/artist page contents, and all content page names. However feel free to use them on talk pages, many user sigs usen em dashes.
--ES (talk) 23:02, May 13, 2016 (UTC)

Looksharp (talk) 23:06, May 13, 2016 (UTC)
Would you take a look at Toto ArtistInfo? For some reason, hyphens and dashes look nearly alike on my browser. Thanks.
--Looksharp (talk) 19:00, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
Every dash on Toto is a hyphen (-), no en dash (–) or em dash (—) present. User:Senvaikis made a chart of such similar punctuation characters (and quotation marks etc.), which I cannot find right now.. But see wp:Dash Wikipedia16. hth --ES (talk) 20:40, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
I know what they are. I wanted to check with you to make sure they rendered correctly to you, to check what they looked like to you, because on my browser on my screen, for some reason, they hyphens and dashes are indistinguishable. The font, perhaps. I thought I would send you a message before you threatened me again. Thanks for the link - but I'm not a nitwit.
--Looksharp (talk) 21:18, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
I think the documentation is clear on it not? as clear as it is about Verse/Chorus etc. Can't be a font problem: n/m dash of any font is as wide as n/m of that font (hence the name), hyphen is narrower still. Same hyphen used in album art file name! The issue about avoiding High ASCII punctuation online is as old as the internet... Ask your optometrist? said the cat with paper goggles! --ES (talk) 21:31, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
@ES: Monospaced fonts, anyone? Have fun counting the pixels. BTW, that rule is in place mainly for lyric plugins (which might not always deal properly with non-ascii), not for browsers anymore (which almost always do, at least as long as charset is correctly declared).
@LS: a surefire way is to hit ctrl+f and search for hyphens – any dash that isn't highlighted should be replaced (in lyrics anyway). — 6×9 (Talk) 16:28, May 17, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. In response to the rule, a guy on a tech forum wrote me this message:
It is true that "Non-ASCII punctuation symbols may display incorrectly in some browsers or plugins and should be replaced by their ASCII equivalents if possible" 1998. Here in the future, in 2016, all Web browsers are fully capable of displaying non-ASCII characters, and (gasp) can even display characters that aren't in the American English alphabet.
--Looksharp (talk) 16:37, May 17, 2016 (UTC)

(Backdent) The docs could be clearer on this issue and they could also mention that this restriction applies to all content pages, and page names. We don't want variations of essentially the same characters (" ' - etc.) in pages, even if they do render correctly, or nbsp instead of space (try checking that visually!).
However, given that in all of our documentation, whenever a dash is indicated, it is indicated with a - and no other form, (same with ' & " etc.) there is the clear example to follow.
And the same with [ ] and {}: Since we have special uses for those pairs, in page contents we expect (), unless the above pairs are used for template/links, and no other place.
The issue is clearly distinct from non latin charsets: CJK/Arabic etc. text and page names are most welcome @lw, their distinct punctuation is certainly not, same with Fr/Ru quotation marks. You may check variations at Punctuation Wikipedia16. ؟! --ES (talk) 07:16, May 18, 2016 (UTC)

True that the docs aren't consistent on this issue. The thing to do, then, is to bring the issue up on the admin portal, so we can decide on a guideline or policy and update the docs. Until then, the statement "em dashes & en dashes are not allowed in [...] page contents" is simply not true (although I wouldn't encourage people to use them either). — 6×9 (Talk) 18:00, May 18, 2016 (UTC)

Next to You - The Police Lyrics

I think a line in the song Next to You by The Police is mistaken. A line says "Talked to my doctor, he said give it time" when it should say "So many times I used to give a sign". I could be wrong, but that's the line in the text given when played in the video game Rock Band. 01:21, May 9, 2018 (UTC)

His web site says the first. Rock Band must be wrong. See Looksharp (talk) 01:00, August 11, 2018 (UTC)

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