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"Dirty" Redirs & Dels

You've been reminded already about the necessity of cleaning up after yourself. Seems you haven't noticed this 6's note. Anyhow, here's the second reminder: please, try to resolve all the redlinks/ltrs, created by your dels/redirs, especialy when they are applied to disambigs, aliases etc. Here's only a short, partial list of WLH's to your latest dirty redirects/dels:
Hope this reminder will help you to clean this list, as weell as other similar unresolved ltrs/dels.
Feel free to ask if you still don't understand the reason of this requirement. --Senvaikis (talk) 17:50, August 1, 2018 (UTC)
PS This talk-page definitely needs archiving (note the broken links in content list...)
In case you missed it, the above tasks are handled by 42 (including unlinking deleted pages and adding aliases to SH for artists that changed titles) In other words: items 1, 2,3, and 4 on your list, as well as fixing red links on uploaded aas (another fav). If your concern is unresolved redirects in general, there is a special page for it, with items going back quite a long time. It is very strange that I need to remind a bureaucrat as to what goes on under the hood. --ES (talk) 20:34, August 1, 2018 (UTC)
I'm not surprised neither by the style nor by the content of your response - it's just a perfect illustration that you really still don't understand what two bureaucrats are trying to say you. Not all ltrs may be simply resolved by a bot or just by one button click. That's why cleaning up after yourself is your job, Admin. --Senvaikis (talk) 21:05, August 1, 2018 (UTC)
Indeed not only all redirects cannot be resolved by a bot nor bots can do human tasks like figuring out that a related artist indicated on an artist page is in fact the earlier or later title of the same artist: an alias. Items 1, 2, 3, 4 on your list are indeed easily handled by bot since the human bit was accomplished.
As for examples of ltrs that may not be simply resolved by a bot, I see no relevant example in this thread, though they certainly do exist. If you wish to educate the site on matters related to unresolved redirects I highly recommend the documentation, with specific section on ltrs that may not be simply resolved by a bot with specific examples to illustrate your point. --ES (talk) 00:46, August 2, 2018 (UTC)
Examples for users reading this thread:
1. redirect not easily resolvable by bot:
Songs of the album Morcheeba:Blaze Away (2018), in credit box: "Skye Edwards" changed to [[Skye|Skye Edwards]]? or simply resolved to Skye? (docs say >nothing<)
Tangent:On Skye's {{ArtistInfo}}, the correct heading for Morcheeba is memberof, nor related.
2. deleted page link easily handled by bot:
Page Hamilton@Helmet
3. aliasing in {{SongHeader}} easily handled by bot:
Buster Poindexter is alias of David Johansen
Hopefully knowledgable folks wish to provide more illustrative examples. --ES (talk) 01:35, August 2, 2018 (UTC)
That's funny you mentioned Page Hamilton@Helmet as the "easily resolvable" case. Well, let's take a closer look at it. The problem is that not all (even knowledgable) folks have permissions to check the history of deleted pages. Nevermind, I'll help them (not sure about you...).
So, why this revision of Linkin Park has been commented as the fix of "...uncleaned doubtful redir - doubtless wrong, unresolvable ltr"? Because atm of this edition Page Hamilton, member of Helmet, was... just a redir(your edit 2018-07-31T12:39:31) to his band page (...) - so any simple ltr resolving, performed by a bot or any inatentive user (clicking the button "Resolve redirs") would have lead to knowingly wrong result: song Linkin Park:All For Nothing was featured by Page Hamilton Wikipedia16, not his band Helmet. And how any, even smartest, bot or cyborg could then "easily" fix this nonsense, even after your deletion (2018-08-01T02:57:04) of Page Hamilton's page?
Leaving this thread, as always - with a sense of wasted time. --Senvaikis (talk) 07:36, August 2, 2018 (UTC)
This is not a new issue either (redirecting of "band members" to "band" can lead to the problem you illustrate), depending on the context. Or a similar example : when [[Band|Bandmember]] is used instead of plain "member" or wp:member. Use of {{wp:artist}} in SH is outside of docs...
If these matters are of sufficient importance then the outcome of such discussion "Ought to be" included in docs" rather than disappear into talk page archives. --ES (talk) 08:44, August 2, 2018 (UTC)
Things handled automatically by bot after deletion
Unlinking deleted albums in sh.
Things that can't be handled automatically
Unlinking anything else. Page Hamilton was only unlinked after checking that all backlinks were song pages (artists on va comps must not be unlinked), the job was triggered manually, IOW me (not the bot) doing your work.
Deleting broken redirects (if target is moved without leaving redir, broken redir must be updated not deleted).
BTW, pages with lowercase words can be (and are) handled by bot, so following your logic above, you shouldn't tell other users off if they don't stick to the inicap rule.
Suggesting that cleanup after deletion be included in the docs is ridiculous, since 99.9999% of users can't delete in the first place, and the rest ought to know the basics. — 6×9 (Talk) 12:29, August 2, 2018 (UTC)
Deleted (or never created) pages that appear in S.WP is whose responsibility? The creator of the pages, the creator or redirector of the misattributed song pages, the editors who inserted the links on other pages? Let's split the bill with Janitor/Sean/LW. Biggrin --ES (talk) 10:25, August 3, 2018 (UTC)
Oh yes, others create red links too, so why should you clean up after yourself? That argument is worthy of a 6-year-old. So either you were trying to derail a serious discussion with a non-serious comment, or you were actually serious and are therefore incapable of logical reasoning. For an admin, neither of these options is acceptable. — 6×9 (Talk) 11:06, August 3, 2018 (UTC)

Latest example6×9 (Talk) 07:11, August 19, 2018 (UTC)

Find (if you wish) a list of Red album lists, created and left empty, but inserted on album pages, not from the past few days.... --ES (talk) 07:16, August 19, 2018 (UTC)
So (again) you're gonna use the fact that there are other red links as an excuse no to clean up after yourself? — 6×9 (Talk) 07:21, August 19, 2018 (UTC)
Exactly what is the time limit on anything @lw? One (rarely since seen) admin once asked if there is an admin manual, the answer came back...<({ })>, (there is no time limit on creation of such luxury item, I suppose). Take any particular item you wish, killing red links, fixing redirs, adding OS items to OS, etc. Which can be allowed to stay for weeks and months and years and which don't? yes ty, rt.... --ES (talk) 07:39, August 19, 2018 (UTC)
Do you keep a list of all pages you deleted, to eventually clean up any backlinks once you get around to it (or feel like it)? Or was this yet another typical ES-style evasive "answer"? — 6×9 (Talk) 07:45, August 19, 2018 (UTC)
So I get an evasive answer or none at all… exemplary behaviour for an admin. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:22, August 20, 2018 (UTC)
What you are overlooking is that such issues are not new. Dead links show up in special pages, links to redirs have its' own page. Where are the "lost" problem pages? (is there such a thing?) Are invalid/bogus/LWPN violation album links lost? Take a wider look at my edits, or continue evading the 99% for the 1%. --ES (talk) 23:57, August 20, 2018 (UTC)
I'm not overlooking it, I acknowledged it the last 5 times you mention it & replied a couple of times. You were already told there are cases that can't be handled by bot. Here's another: move A to B, then B (because of typo) to C without redirect. Redirect A2B is then broken & will be deleted instead of fixed; any links to A are then red & will be unlinked instead of updated.
Since discussion (as has become the norm) appears to be pointless, let me put it this way: start cleaning up after yourself, or we'll have to reconsider your admin status. — 6×9 (Talk) 04:37, August 22, 2018 (UTC)

Deprecated js in SV namespace

Just wanted to inform you, that since today embedded audioplayer support is moved from Senvaikis' to MediaWiki's namespace and now it may be easily managed by your script prefs (menu "My Tools/Script preferences"), so you may remove the call to "User:Senvaikis/AudioPlayer-js" (as well as most other lines, btw) from your common.js.
regards,--Senvaikis (talk) 21:14, August 3, 2018 (UTC)

Lyrically App

How long does to update all of the lyrics people add? BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 23:50, August 21, 2018 (UTC)

Do you mean how long does it take for a newly added lyric page to become accessible via various lyric widgets?
I use a different app, but from my experience sometimes the update is immediate sometimes it is not. Maybe someone else can shed more light on this. --ES (talk) 00:05, August 22, 2018 (UTC)
Okay thanks. BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 23:45, August 22, 2018 (UTC)

Mose Allison:Takes To The Hills (1962) vs. Mose Allison:V-8 Ford Blues (1961)

These are actually the same records. Originally released in 1961 as "Takes to the Hills", it was re-issued in 1966 as "V-8 Ford Blues". The only Discogs1 reference to a 1961 mono version of "V-8 Ford Blues" is wrong (the #SX 6058 in the Columbia catalog belongs in the year 1966). All the re-issues after 1966 are called "V-8 Ford Blues" or sometimes "Sings And Plays V-8 Ford Blues". The cover of my 2016 CD version states "FORMERLY ENTITLED MOSE ALLISON TAKES TO THE HILLS". Could you please merge the two entries?--Vssm2004 (talk) 18:50, August 28, 2018 (UTC)

done @ Takes to the Hills (1961) --ES (talk) 21:49, August 28, 2018 (UTC)

What's The Change?


I saw you made edits on the Tony Banks page. I'm sure you know what you were doing, but the problem is that I don't see what you have changed... I really would like to know, so that in future I can make sure that I post the things correctly.


Wyverex2 — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wyverex2 (talkcontribs).

I'd suggest using our Special:Wikify for making tracklists, and comparing the output with your handmade ones. hth --ES (talk) 00:57, August 31, 2018 (UTC)

John Prine Duets

I just noticed (because of your recent changes to the Hank Williams:Cold, Cold Heart) page that, in December 2016, you edited all of the songs on the John Prine:For Better, Or Worse (2016) to remove the duet artist from the page names. (I note that you have also not added these artists as 'featured' to any of the song pages)

You can tell from the Wikipedia article, or by listening to the album, that these are duets. Moreover, the back cover of the album uses the term 'with' rather than 'featuring', which usually (admittedly, not always) connotes a duet.

This website is meant to be driven by listening to the audio recordings of the lyrics. That is the unique strength of this site; that it does not depend just on bots and on mining data from other sites. All these songs divide up the singing time 50/50. The only sense in which they can be said to be 'John Prine' songs rather than songs attributed to the other artist, is that the album was released in his name. Any of these artists could justly put these songs on their own albums, and there would be no dispute that these are proper duets, and the artists are not simply 'featured'.

--RWDCollinson (talk) 10:31, September 3, 2018 (UTC)

Kingnee - Musicbrainz Feat @mb, Discogs1 Featuring @dg, ITunes icon feat. @iT, Featured Vocalist Wikipedia16 @wp, JP@AllMusic i, Spotify 16 feat. @SP (but track credit to feat artist).
The word With (as w/?) only appears on individual track pages at mb, example Kingnee - Musicbrainz w/ Susan Tedeschi.
In all cases the Page Name artist is John Prine, and that is how the song Page Names are indicated @lw.
  • It is impossible to detect whether a song is a feat or a with by listening to it. Either way it is a duet if two people sing it; per "You say Tomayto, I say Tomaato", some call it feat, some call it with. --ES (talk) 11:12, September 3, 2018 (UTC)
Hold on. As I said above, the back cover of the album (which I believe commands more authority than any other internet source) says with. I linked to that above. The fact that our various external references are inaccurate doesn't mean that we need to be. --RWDCollinson (talk) 15:10, September 3, 2018 (UTC)
With on cover? Please see Derek Trucks & Susan Tedeschi Band:Space Captain...
Artist per mb Kingnee - Musicbrainz: "Derek Trucks & Susan Tedeschi Band with Warren Haynes, David Hidalgo, Cesar Rosas & Chris Stainton"
Artist per dg Discogs1: "Derek Trucks & Susan Tedeschi Band with Warren Haynes, David Hidalgo, Cesar Rosas & Chris Stainton"
Artist per back cover of DVD
And please note the credit box of the song page...
Indeed it is John Prine's album, the secondary artists are his guests, so they don't belong in the page name.
On 50/50: A vocalist that sings 100% of a song may just be a guest Have a Cigar
A non vocalist can be a page name artist: Buddy and the Juniors (1970).
If a duet is a policified designation and its' validity can be ascertained by inspecting various items (aurally or visually), I'd like to see the relevant doc.
The album in question was created with John Prine as Page Name artist... --ES (talk) 23:07, September 3, 2018 (UTC)


Just want to point out for the name of the actual spelling of the Irish song is King Of The Faeries. Sorry if I’m a bother.

Pepperthewaterrescuepup (talk) 03:49, September 4, 2018 (UTC)Adam

According to the official vinyl record, it is spelt "fairies". Unless there's an earlier release with the "ae" spelling, the page is fine where it is. - Patzilla777 (talk - contributions) 14:24, September 4, 2018 (UTC)

Bollywood Lyrics

Hello Can I add bollywood songs lyrics?

Coollogo_com-54641250.png Tᴀʟᴋ

Yes. And you may find some existing ones at Hometown/India. --ES (talk) 17:23, September 6, 2018 (UTC)

Hi, just for letting you know. this ip is vandalizing some pages, so could you please block it? Kind regards. :-)--ΠλVƋX {disc} 20:32, September 9, 2018 (UTC)

done --ES (talk) 21:01, September 9, 2018 (UTC)

Hawaii: Part II

Hey ES,

Thanks for helping me out with those pages. I appreciate it.

Floydienslip (talk) 02:13, September 10, 2018 (UTC)

yw; Please see your talk page. cheers --ES (talk) 02:16, September 10, 2018 (UTC)
How would I go about adding a single to the artist page? I tried, and it got deleted. Floydienslip (talk) 02:53, September 10, 2018 (UTC)
It's listed on the page. --ES (talk) 02:57, September 10, 2018 (UTC)

The Kingston Trio - Hidden Treasures

I am in the midst of moving this [1] release back to 1986, but I see that you were the admin who assigned it to 1958. Rather than continuing, I want to reach out. Every bit of information I can find says that the Kingston Trio was on Capitol Records in 1958, and they had one release - their debut album. Folk Era, an independent label formed in 1985, released Hidden Treasures on vinyl in 1986. Everywhere I search for Hidden Treasures, FE2036, it's being sold as a new or used vinyl LP, released in 1986 in the US. The only piece of information that mentions 1958 is Amazon - but if you look at the cover art on Amazon and expand it, the label is Folk Era, and it says original songs from 1958-1962. That rules out 1958 as a release year. Folk Era is headquartered about 8 miles away from me, and I have their phone number - I'd be willing to give them a call.

If I've created a major mess, I apologize. That's why I just put the brakes on and am writing. I will do nothing more with this album without hearing from you. Thank you--Pastafazoo (talk) 03:23, September 12, 2018 (UTC)

I was looking around earlier for release date(s) of the album... As you see in the page creation edit comment.."1958 per asin" which is what amazon still insists (per footer link), and at [2] it is listed as 1966. No entry @ TKT official site or @ And I saw all the other sites that say 1986 including 45worlds.
  • We usually use the earliest release year we can find (I don't usually write and edit comment like that, it musta been odd looking to me as well @1958). Thanks for correcting the trillion dollar company's error Smile --ES (talk) 03:40, September 12, 2018 (UTC)
Glad this all worked out. Looks like 45worlds serves as a decent alternative to Discogs. Folk Era's website is no longer with us, but they are still in business, and now have a Facebook page. I was definitely willing to give them a call to clear it up. You're welcome.--Pastafazoo (talk) 13:12, September 12, 2018 (UTC)

Traditional/Public Domain songs and "Covered"

I've been working on cleaning up this [3]album a little. Just about to add a song page for Told the Captain, but before I dive in: This is a public domain song, and was released on a 78 sometime in the 1940s by Josh White. It was released on a major label as Tol' My Captain by Harry Belafonte in 1954. Regardless, if a traditional or public domain song appears on LyricWiki on the earliest date by a given artist, and there are subsequent releases by others - Joan Baez being an example here - is the later release considered a cover of the release by the earliest artist appearing on LW?

Or, since it's traditional or public domain, are "all bets off"?

I did spend some time looking at House of the Rising Sun, and I didn't see any versions claiming to be covers of whoever appears first on LW. Also spent time searching FAQ, but found nothing. Thanks--Pastafazoo (talk) 19:20, September 13, 2018 (UTC)

My understanding of "Cover/Covered" is we define it based on the first known recording. By your description Josh White's... (secondhandsongs may be a useful site for clarifying song pedigrees). Per AllMusic i AllMusic it is public domain, which is indicated in {{CreditBox}} as writer=Traditional.
House of the Rising Sun: Earliest (1937) recording is here. hth --ES (talk) 20:11, September 13, 2018 (UTC)
OK, not to seem slow on the uptake, but I've done a quick search through House of the Rising Sun on LW, and everything is a) a cover of the Traditional ......, or b) Traditional, arr. by: No covers of Georgia Turner's 1937 recording. Is this the way it should be? I am only trying to conform with standard practice.
In my case, I think Tol' My Captain by Harry Belafonte and Joan Baez are both simply written by Traditional. And Joan Baez's recording isn't a cover of Harry Belafonte or Josh White. Just her rendition of Public Domain.
Finally, for traditional songs, I've seen both Cover of the Traditional...... and I've seen Credit Box writer=Traditional. Is either of those two preferable? I have been using the latter, but can switch horses. Thanks.--Pastafazoo (talk) 21:07, September 13, 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I've seen Cover of Traditional @lw (example: Traditional:House Of The Rising Sun), but given that a Traditional song is not a recording, I think such cover designations are a mistake. Maybe there is a better way of pointing to the origin without using {{Cover}}, or may be that is the way it was intended to be. I'd link the Traditional page to the relevant doc, but haven;t found such doc.
Captain: It is difficult to say If HB / JB songs are covers of JW's, not without seeing the lyrics.
Tip: Please help others following your posting by clearly linking the songs (created or not), as I did with your text above. --ES (talk) 00:05, September 14, 2018 (UTC)
Told My Captain by Josh White 1940
Tol' My Captain by Leon Bibb 1954
Told My Captain by Joan Baez 1964
The three songs above have very close lyrics. White sang different lyrics based on recording. I wouldn't be surprised to find an even earlier version, given that it is a work song. hth. --ES (talk) 06:39, September 14, 2018 (UTC)

Bo Diddley lyrics

I've been adding/correcting BD lyrics lately. Many of his early songs are not really "sung", but a dialog between him and (often) Jerome Green. How do you properly transcribe this? Example: Say Man, Back Again (listen to it here).--Vssm2004 (talk) 22:39, September 14, 2018 (UTC)

Example: Seven Foot Dilly & His Dill Pickles:Pickin' Off Peanuts hth. --ES (talk) 22:46, September 14, 2018 (UTC)

Leftover backlinks

6×9 (Talk) 19:39, September 21, 2018 (UTC)

The bot can handle the above without tripping, but apparently not anything like...this? --ES (talk) 09:19, September 22, 2018 (UTC)
Don't be ridiculous. How should a bot know to remove the entire line plus the "Singles" heading, rather than just unlink? LTR was handled correctly. — 6×9 (Talk) 10:35, September 22, 2018 (UTC)
...would be ridiculous if weren't simply regrettable. --Senvaikis (talk) 12:28, September 22, 2018 (UTC)


6×9 (Talk) 19:39, September 21, 2018 (UTC)

And plenty more LA songs I brought in recently have no albums yet, and there is still more songs to come and more albums to be made. All the song above appeared on earlier releases we don't have yet.--ES (talk) 23:21, September 21, 2018 (UTC)

New Orleans ST

I have 2 questions to you, both are related to LW:PN and the recently created page Louis Armstrong & Billie Holiday:New Orleans (1947):

  • Album title (release date): are you sure this soundtrack was really released (not recorded) in 1947?
    • Why then "Giants of Jazz Records" called their Discogs1 1982 LP as "The Unissued Soundtrack of New Orlean"?
  • Titles of most songs: are you sure all the songs on this album have been performed by LA&BH?
--Senvaikis (talk) 13:23, September 27, 2018 (UTC)
AllMusic i (1947) - "Recording Date: September 11, 1946 - October 17, 1946": (earliest release date per ref:1947)
  • Song PNs follows album PN, SH.a follows Song PN.
  • That BH doesn't perform most of the songs is clear from the linked YTs. --ES (talk) 20:42, September 27, 2018 (UTC)
  1. As you positively understand, this amg "ref" (without any additional reliable info) simply can't be considered seriously. Thus, according to the reliable info (dog, label, album etc), 1947 is just the date of recording, not the first release, which must be used while building lw album title and following LW:PN.
  2. Song PN must follow LW:PN (<Peforming Artist(s)>:<Song>), not the album PN, - that's strange I should remind that to you
  3. Just can't comment such an "argument"... :). Want to know who performs the song? - just turn on the sound and listen! Nice, congrats - such interpretation is a really new wave @LW! But what for is LW:PN then? Are you going to come up @AP with a proposal to declare it deprecated? Well, let's wait and see if your interpretation will be approved @AP. But for a while - be so kind to follow the current LW:PN. Take my friendly advice - use Discogs1 this dog info (section "Credits").
--Senvaikis (talk) 22:21, September 27, 2018 (UTC)
Song PN must follow LW:PN (<Peforming Artist(s)>:<Song>)
Just can't comment on such an "argument", just yet: the currentLW:PN makes no such explicit claim. Kindly link the relevant passage, or @AP we may have a discussion to consider the possibility of including it in LWPN. --ES (talk) 01:27, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
As it happens usually in discussions with you, I refuse from further comments. Disagree - contact AP, but be aware: the final subject of such discussion may be completely different. --Senvaikis (talk) 07:18, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
There would be no point in someone else taking your quote, currently not exiting in LWPN and starting a discussion. The onus on you to provide reliable info when calling something policy, and if you think that
Song PN must follow LW:PN (<Peforming Artist(s)>:<Song>)
belongs in lwpn (where else?) why don't you step forward in AP? --ES (talk) 07:31, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

Move pages

I can't rename pages anymore :( Any idea why? BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 11:03, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

Not a clue! What happens when you try... Do you see the move page but get an error when you try? --ES (talk) 11:06, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
Now it works. BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 11:09, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
On a side note, songs with the same title but different lyrics by the same artist can be on this website right? Like Guided By Voices:Little Jimmy The Giant and Guided By Voices:Little Jimmy The Giant (Different Version) They are the same song but different lyrics. Is that okay? BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 11:53, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
I'd put both on same page, separated by a header Version 2, instead of making up a page name for the 2nd one.--ES (talk) 11:58, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
Okay will do that. BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 12:00, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
Can you please delete some pages that I made that are different versions. I put those on the original's pages. BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 12:10, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
done there was only one, not page(s), right? --ES (talk) 12:19, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
No, there are more. Guided By Voices:Paper Girl (Different Version), Guided By Voices:A Proud And Booming Industry (Different Version), Guided By Voices:Rubber Man (Long) and Guided By Voices:Are You Faster? (Different Version) All need to be deleted. Might be more, I'll check. Sorry. These are all of them. BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 12:22, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
All done (redirected to proper song pages, not deleted)
Two notes: might be better to use the album title or disc/track number (if on same alb) instead of Version 2. If secondary versions have different spotify links you can insert the link below song Footer, please see Little Jimmy the Giant as an example. hth --ES (talk) 12:35, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
Ok. Thanks for the help and I will keep that note in mind. BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 12:41, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
@BBF: Sorry, but I'd not recommend you to follow such solution (joining two songs with different lyrics into one page), for two reasons:
  • first of all, such approach would be acceptable for versions with nonessential differences in lyrics, which is not the case, so it would be better to create a separate pages for each version, using an addition notation. That becomes essential, when these different versions appear on different releases. So, the 1st version appears on the box set Suitcase... (2000), while the second one - on the EP Discogs1 Glue On Bicycle (2013) (still missing @LW yet...)
  • but to be precise, we are speaking not about two versions of the same song by the same artist. We are speaking about two songs, performed by two different artists. Actually the second version (song by GBV) is the cover of the first one, performed by Little Bobby Pop - one of countless aliases of Robert Pollard...
Please don't worry, - I don't insist on renaming all the tracks on the mentioned boxset, according to all the Pollard's aliases, listed on the album cover :). But merging these such different songs into one page would be a mistake imo.
regards, --Senvaikis (talk) 22:05, September 28, 2018 (UTC)
There is a wrinkle when two songs by the same artist have the same title and are disambiguated, per docs Please note exact link. (hint for the experts waving in the general direction of docs).
Examples: Mis-Disambiguated, disambiguated by additional notation (album title).
Wrinkle: Now lyric widgets won't find anything at all, unless widget users rename their songs. fwiw. --ES (talk) 01:17, September 29, 2018 (UTC)
Since you've linked to the relevant doc, you might as well read it: the first disambiguated page in above list which you "fixed" was originally in line with the recommendations and now isn't. So I suggest you undo your changes, and very carefully recheck your list whether any of the pages are actually mis-disambiguated.
My mistake, should have checked the history first. My apologies. — 6×9 (Talk) 17:13, September 30, 2018 (UTC)
Widget programmers can use metadata to fetch the correct lyric. Our job is to enable them to do that by using a consistent naming system. — 6×9 (Talk) 16:57, September 30, 2018 (UTC)

Redirect, delete by admin?

On this song:[4] - These are the same lyrics as Goodbye Stevie - the no comma song. I can't find any references (Discogs, Musicbrainz, Allmusic) to this song ever being released as Goodbye, Stevie. Now that this has been detached from any album, why should it even be in Other Songs? Just seeking your input. Thanks--Pastafazoo (talk) 20:14, September 30, 2018 (UTC)

That is why we have redirects. hth --ES (talk) 21:46, September 30, 2018 (UTC)


Hi there!

I noticed that you moved (gathered) Louisahhh!!!:Change (Radio Edit) to Louisahhh!!!:Change. The thing is they are two different editions of the same song, with a change in the lyrics... confusion! Maybe I didn't tag properly, I'm new to lyricswikia and not familiar with the way it works... Sorry for the trouble... Have a good day!--Redgez (talk) 11:37, October 7, 2018 (UTC)

(Radio Edit), (Live), (alt take) and similar notation is not allowed in Page names, unless required for disambiguation, (example: if the notated version has sufficiently distinct lyrics to justify another lyric page, and we have the lyrics for both versions). hth --ES (talk) 11:45, October 7, 2018 (UTC)

Who is the Song Artist?

This item: Joan_Baez:John Henry, raises a general question - if an album is a compilation, various artists, and is issued under the name of an artist, are all songs on the compilation songs by the Album Artist, regardless of who performs (vocally or instrumentally) on the song? In the case of this one, it was released in 1959 as a genuine compilation, and reissued in 1963, under Joan Baez's name - Folksingers 'Round Harvard Square Wikipedia16. Someone who actually owns the "Best of Joan Baez" vinyl LP posted a "video" on YouTube YouTube Icon and deleted John Henry 4:10 because Baez is not singing. I only want to do whatever is consistent with LW guidelines. If it should be redirected to Bill Wood, I can do so. If it remains Joan Baez simply because her name is on this LP, I won't touch it. I just looked at the "Concert for George" tribute album, and the songs are not shown as songs by Harrison, but I might find something else if I choose another compilation. Thanks in advance.--Pastafazoo (talk) 19:02, October 9, 2018 (UTC)

Folksingers 'Round Harvard Square (1959) is a 3 way split, not a VA, per cover. Each song is to be attributed to the performer (I can't tell if the LP sleeve indicates otherwise due to instrumental accompaniment). hth --ES (talk) 19:23, October 9, 2018 (UTC)
I found a pretty good image of the LP sleeve for Folk Singers 'Round Harvard Square, if it can help the status of this album at all - [5]. Definitely doesn't support 21 tracks. Maybe they were recorded, but no evidence for release. Thanks for your response.--Pastafazoo (talk) 22:28, October 9, 2018 (UTC)
Well done! That settles it. --ES (talk) 22:50, October 9, 2018 (UTC)
PS: I moved the page. I hope I can leave the internal details to you (track list, bonus tracks etc.). tia --ES (talk) 22:56, October 9, 2018 (UTC)

Double article

I just noticed there are two articles for the song "Evening Falls" by Enya. Enya:Evening Falls...
Enya:Evening Falls Is that really necessary? Shaneymike (talk) 01:42, October 10, 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. In such cases we redirect one to the other. The one with "..." was on std albums, so the other one from the box set was redirected. hth --ES (talk) 01:49, October 10, 2018 (UTC)

Syntax for a Page Move

I have successfully done page renames and redirects. You once left me a note on my talk page on how to do a move - [6]. I was wanting to move a couple of those Joan Baez reissue cover art photos myself, which I now see you've done, but honestly, was somewhat afraid to try it. The simple Rename pulldown isn't even there for cover art. I haven't found any documentation except what you provided in my Talk Page. Is it this - replace all existing content with >>> "Page", or is it replacing all existing content in the edit page with: "Page" >>> "Page" , or is it something slightly different. Thanks --Pastafazoo (talk) 17:28, October 11, 2018 (UTC)

Alternative album art: the tag "reissue" is too vague: an album may be reissued many times in different years, so indicating the year is helpful, as is indicating year of bonus tracks/discs; following the album page naming scheme "artist:title (year)".
You wrote: Is it this - replace all existing content with >>> "Page", or is it replacing all existing content in the edit page with: "Page" >>> "Page" , or is it something slightly different
...I have no idea what the above is...
Moving Pictures: Rename/Move under Edit.
What are your choices under edit @ File:Joan_Baez_-_Baptism_2003.jpg? hth. --ES (talk) 21:45, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for responding. When I go to: File:Joan_Baez_-_Baptism_2003.jpg, I have 3 choices: History, Replace and Talk. Rename is not an option. Tried 3 browsers. I wanted to rename those "reissue" jpgs myself, but really couldn't figure out how to do so. I have found that replace allows you to upload a new photo, but at least for me, it's the new photo but the name stays the same. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Below is the quote from what you wrote me about doing a move. I think I realize now that you simply meant to use the Move function, not to click edit and then type in >>> somewhere. Sorry about that! I've had no problems with songs. Probably would work fine with an album, too.
"...Like this requires moving the song to the corrected page nameJoan Baez:El Preso Numero Nueve >>> Joan Baez:El Preso Número Nueve. hth --ES (talk) 22:26, July 30, 2018 (UTC)" -- I thought >>> was something I needed to type, sorry about that. Thanks again. I certainly like the idea of appending the year of the reissue to the newer cover art.--Pastafazoo (talk) 06:12, October 12, 2018 (UTC)
I have replace as well, but that is for uploading a new file to replace the existing file (no option to change file name). So the route to take would be to upload a new file with a more descriptive name (yyyy instead of reissue), and change the alt cover file name on album page to match. This is not the first time an editor mentions problems with moving album art, and finally I understand exactly why...
Admins have a "Rename" option for images that works exactly like renaming a song page, type the new name <enter> and done. --ES (talk) 06:27, October 12, 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for earlier.

I'm the anonymous user who has been editing the Blind Guardian pages (through both school computers and my own). Thought that these edits were happening so often that I should probably have my own account. I just wanted to thank you for fixing the mistake I made while trying to add Don't Talk to Strangers to the Forgotten Tales section. These edits are the first I've made in years to either Fandom or Wikipedia. Hailstrike3 (talk) 21:59, October 11, 2018 (UTC)

Ambiguous situation

I just finished transcribing this song page:Joan Baez:O What A Beautiful City. Quickly discovered it's the same spiritual as this: Joan Baez:Twelve Gates To The City. I've just listened to Twelve Gates to the City, courtesy of YouTube, and it's lyrics are 99.9% identical to what I transcribed. (Except for a well, or but at the beginning of a line). No change in melody whatsoever, FWIW. In other words, what I published (for O, What...) is far more correct for Twelve Gates than what's currently on LW. LW is just about evenly divided on what the name of this song is. And there is one other artist who has it both ways - Rev. Gary Davis. The cover art on Folksingers 'Round Harvard Square says: O, What a Beautiful City. Very Early Joan:Twelve Gates to the City. So is either name "wrong"? Thanks--Pastafazoo (talk) 03:07, October 15, 2018 (UTC)

Common situation, same song released under two or more titles, I'd redirect Twelve Gates to Beautiful City, and hope it doesn't run afoul of Heavenly ordinances. Wink --ES (talk) 03:17, October 15, 2018 (UTC)

Edits on H.E.X. pages

Dear EchoSierra, I disagree with your edits on H.E.X.:Hercules, H.E.X.:Slingshot and H.E.X.:Sword & Shield. I think removing the Youtube embeds without providing a descriptive edit summary wasn't a good idea, since that may make people think H.E.X. doesn't exist, and people may actually want to know whose music the lyrics are to. Not only that, but you think that H.E.X. is an unknown artist. It's not. H.E.X. is short for House Electronic Xperience, a band that made music for 1980s ZX Spectrum game B-sides. It's not clear who sings the lyrics, since sometimes it's a guy and sometimes it's a girl (any of the singers' names are unknown), but in Custerd's Quest's manual (watch at 2:07 to see) it said "All music by House Electronic Xperience via Wayne Allen." So he's not a singer, but he's likely a composer. Overall, thanks to these edits, people probably think I'm lying about these songs, even though they exist. So, could I please be able to restore the Youtube embeds, correct the mistake that H.E.X. is an unknown artist, make pages for more H.E.X. songs, and could you please leave more descriptive edit summaries than "-yte" or "UA"? If not, could you at least tell me what I can do about this? The earliest I'll respond is 3 PM UTC. Thank you for reading. Piterpicher Talk 19:53, October 18, 2018 (UTC)

I removed the vids because they were "dead" when I checked them, but now have been restored. If you have anything else to add to H.E.X., please do so, and note that none of the songs appear on any release... --ES (talk) 20:56, October 18, 2018 (UTC)

Okay, then. I'll find more songs and hopefully expand the H.E.X. page if I find more info. Thank you for the explanation. Piterpicher Talk 18:51, October 19, 2018 (UTC)

Born vs b.

Would you show me where in documents all users should use b. instead of Born in infobox? Songsbr (talk) 14:18, October 22, 2018 (UTC)

Brevity Wikipedia16 needs documentation? --ES (talk) 14:19, October 22, 2018 (UTC)
Well, seems like you choose that we all must use b. No, I don't accept that. This is a personal choice, some users choose to use Born:, b. or B: per Tom_Morello or Iza so all you have is what you want, that's not enough. Songsbr (talk) 14:23, October 22, 2018 (UTC)
There are a lot of edits that are not explicitly documented, but we do it for the sake of brevity. Creation of 1 track singles is a matter of history now, but edits like this are not documented! Haven't seen any of those reverted...
b/d is used on a lot of websites (including our ref sites) and in newspapers, it is not an invention, just like brevity.
If b/d is likely to be confused with something else, there's a case to avoid it. --ES (talk) 14:40, October 22, 2018 (UTC)
I just asked about Senvaikis about this 'cause i didn't know you would answer me. Well, probably this was the first time you gave me a good answer actually, (usually is one line answer) cause I already notice you watching my edits and changing all that's possible but i'm not get out of the site just cause you want. I'm not gonna add Born: again even is short word, doesn't need any "bravety". But why don't you use bravety in "active" like Active=s. 1993 or 1993-p.? Songsbr (talk) 14:48, October 22, 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for sharing your imagination. --ES (talk) 15:02, October 22, 2018 (UTC)

Two completely different songs, same artist, exactly the same title

OK - this item - Joan Baez:Colours . There is an issue with the song released on the album Baptism. The LP cover art and the hub call it Colours. However, it is a recitation (no singing) of a translation of a poem named Colours by a Russian poet. Clocks in at 1:14. See this image: Discogs1 Baptism Images. I've listened to it and transcribed it. No relationship to Donovan.

Do you the think perhaps the least messy approach would be to convert to US English "Colors" to separate this item from the other releases? Thanks in advance for any good ideas.--Pastafazoo (talk) 03:46, October 25, 2018 (UTC)

Good Catch! (doesn't seem to exist elsewhere) I'd leave it at "Colours" per release, with your transcribed lyrics. The other one is a duet with Donovan, so it would be at Joan Baez & Donovan:Colours, judging by search results from spotify @ [7]. hth --ES (talk) 04:09, October 25, 2018 (UTC)
Sorry to say, there are two distinct recordings she made of Donovan's song - one appears on "Farewell, Angelina", and I've listened to it in the iTunes store and here:[8] . Donovan doesn't appear as a singer or instrumentalist. This version (roughly 3:07) also appears on some compilations. The duet with Donovan appears on Rare, Live and Classic and is roughly 3:22, and is also available on a "laundry list" of compilations. FWIW, neither of these appear on Greatest Hits (1996) - duet or solo. So something needs to be done to handle her solo on "Farewell Angelina". Or something needs to be done to deal with the Russian poem. Thanks again.--Pastafazoo (talk) 05:11, October 25, 2018 (UTC)
Colours (poetry recitation) at original page name,
Duo Colours at duo Page name
And given that the Duo was performed solo by both JB & Donovan individually, redirect the solo versions to the duo version, since they have identical lyrics, and in CreditBox indicating on which lw available album it was performed solo/duo. --ES (talk) 05:25, October 25, 2018 (UTC)
OK, one last issue before I embark on this one - what about the list of folks who have covered Donovan's Colours? Are they left in the lurch in this scheme? Are you sure it wouldn't be less disruptive to switch the really obscure, short, Russian poem, which had a later release, to "Colors"? Would you mind terribly if I engage another Admin - xxTimberlakexx on this? Not trying to stir up a hornet's nest, but Donovan's Colours is a pretty high profile tune. I feel that perhaps the Hippocratic Oath applies, first, do no harm.--Pastafazoo (talk) 05:59, October 25, 2018 (UTC)
They have covered a song that was performed by Donovan, JB, and Donovan+JB. Since our page name of the song becomes JB+Donovan:song, that is what the {{cover}}s point to. The idea is to take 3 identical songs by two artists and make it into one song. The author of the song is indicated in CB of the duo and all covers.
  • Tip:When any page/file is moved or redirected, all links to it need to be updated, by checking What Links Here for each moved/redirected page. --ES (talk) 06:12, October 25, 2018 (UTC)
By the way, I “caught” this by simply looking at the entry for Baptism in Wikipedia- Discogs only corroborated --Pastafazoo (talk) 15:03, October 25, 2018 (UTC)
Nice catch indeed, PF.
...and very appropriate subtle reference to the Hippocratic Oath - it would be nice if all our administrators always followed a similar principle - either help, or at least do no harm. It seems that ES does not think so: quite recently he proposed joining 2 songs with a different lyrics into one page; now he goes even further and advises to merge... even songs, performed by a different artists. Sorry, but this not only goes in violence to current lwpn, but also deprives any sense of such term as the cover. The funniest thing is that the version, offered here to be declared as the original, was performed live in the festival and has been released only in 1995. Should I remind you that the original version is considered the earliest release of the song, i.e. Donovan's Discogs1 single, released on 28 May 1965. Next goes the solo version by JB (SecondHand icon October 1965), and only after that - JB&D duet. And all these 3 songs are absolutely different songs in terms of LW, as songs, performed by different artists.
Considering the Russian poem, I tend to agree with your idea of using American "Colors" as the lesser of two evils :)
regards, --Senvaikis (talk) 15:51, October 25, 2018 (UTC)
The key bit is that the song was performed as a duo, as well as solo, all such redirects were per bureaucratic advice, not policy.
Changing colours to colors is a violation of lw:pn.
For songs of same title with different lyrics by same artist, examples at John Lee Hooker --ES (talk) 21:30, October 25, 2018 (UTC)

The Other One by Grateful Dead

Hi Echo, though I wasn't the one who was changing the writer credit for Grateful Dead:The Other One, Weir, Kreutzmann is accurate, as this lyric page is only referring to a particular Weir sung segment of the main suite That's It For The Other One. More info at top of this page: Prkcz (talk) 23:23, October 25, 2018 (UTC)

done --ES (talk) 23:27, October 25, 2018 (UTC)

The Power Rangers Orchestra

I don't think it makes sense to credit John Pierce as The Power Rangers Orchestra. He was just one member of that one-time ensemble. --LYRIC-Stormwatch (talk) 10:09, November 7, 2018 (UTC)

Discogs1 TPRO is alias of John Pierce (with Matt Sorum), without creating an artist page for TPRO, which has only one song. --ES (talk) 13:54, November 7, 2018 (UTC)
That page is so bad, it doesn't even mention 3 out of the band's 5 members.GGPR 1995 film Wikipedia16, MMPR The Movie Wikipedia16 --LYRIC-Stormwatch (talk) 18:33, November 7, 2018 (UTC)
Either way it's a one song collaboration, TPRO itself is not considered an artist. --ES (talk) 20:57, November 7, 2018 (UTC)

One alb collabs

Last night you deleted the page Michael Sadler & Rachel Flowers and the reason was "1 alb collab, plz see docs." I have not been able to find the relevant section in the documentation on how to handle artists that currently only have one collaboration. Can you please point me to the documentation on this? --Rminsk (talk) 21:13, November 7, 2018 (UTC)

Possibly I was mistaken and one alb collabs are not explained in docs. thanks.
Please see {{AlbumHeader}} section: Special Parameters
That section does not talk about needing to have more than one album together. I was using Brian Eno & David Byrne as an exmple. When am I suppose to create a page with the Collaboration template? When they have more than one album together?
--Rminsk (talk) 22:11, November 7, 2018 (UTC)
Yes, when there is more than one album; please see: c.AC, including Eno & Byrne.
Though an exception would be when there is a single album collab but neither arrist has a solo page, example: Lucy Simon & Marsha Norman. hth --ES (talk) 22:52, November 7, 2018 (UTC)

Move bug

I need help moving pages for Cash Rivers and the Sinners, it's all the pages with apostrophes. I tried moving the pages but after 3 pages moved, I get an error that tells to contact Wikia. BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 21:03, November 12, 2018 (UTC)

The rest of the songs are just missing the album but that's because I'm too lazy to add it to all those songs. BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 21:14, November 12, 2018 (UTC)
done. I got that error a while ago (for about a week), required a lot of encouragement on my behalf to convince FANDOM to at least let admins move more than 3 pages per minute. (in case other admins are reading this) --ES (talk) 21:20, November 12, 2018 (UTC)
PS: There is a numbered bot that sometimes adds albums to the song header, but its schedule has never been revealed. Lost --ES (talk) 22:19, November 12, 2018 (UTC)

Georg Kreisler:Hurra, Wir Sterben! (1971)

Are you able to read? Album rear side

And: Discogs1 Philipp von Zeska never wrote any song. As it is written Discogs1 here : Music by, Lyrics by, PianoGeorg Kreisler - and von Zeska is the performer! On the cover it is written: Philipp von Zeska singt "Lieder eines älteren Herrn" von Georg Kreisler, what means: Philipp von Zeska sings "Lieder eines älteren Herrn" by Georg Kreisler

So, why do you like to make always such a messs with things you know? nothig about? --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 01:38, November 14, 2018 (UTC)

(btw: how about recreating Friedrich Hollaender?)

Pleass see:
2. LW:PN

of course an album created in 2013 when the editor was new, last edited in 2016 (still new editor)

I suggest reviewing your past creations for confirming that they meet site standards; LW:PN

cheers --ES (talk) 02:23, November 14, 2018 (UTC)

Could you please put there his correct name? --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 04:17, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
von --ES (talk) 04:25, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
Of course three sources report his name in 3 different ways, and that is why we use aliases (per dôcs). --ES (talk) 04:27, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
Where did you get that "n"? --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 04:35, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
Kingnee - Musicbrainz. #11-14 Discogs1.
PS my goggles are not for sale. --ES (talk) 04:40, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
Though for this one... I used a monocle Wikipedia16. --ES (talk) 04:44, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
@ES: Philipp von Zenska is neither a name nor alias of Philipp von Zeska Wikipedia16 (see also Discogs1, Kingnee - Musicbrainz, Spotify 16 or ITunes icon, or just the image of album backcover). So, this page title, based on a simple typo, has nothing to do with lw docs and should be fixed.
And finally, stop this practice of mockeries as a way to "mask" your own mistakes.
--Senvaikis (talk) 12:19, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
Is this the first time that sites and releases disagree on an artist name? Walter Vinson or Walter Vincson Front Cover? P Von Z or PZ?. Admins have had disagreement over which source for as far back as I remember. --ES (talk) 12:38, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
I'm not going to waste my time on yet another senseless journey to your "Kingdom of Crooked Mirrors and Distorted Logic". Just make your own choice, while you are online - either fix the title of mentioned page according to the sources, listed above, or prove that they are all wrong. You've got 2 hours for your choice. --Senvaikis (talk) 14:08, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
I left it to you to choose since the page name would be correct with Von or without Von, depending on your choice of source.
But these matters usually get resolved [9]. --ES (talk) 14:20, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
Crooked Mirrors, indeed :). I'm speaking about mistitled Philipp von Zenska instead of correct Philipp von Zeska. ...Though I know for sure that you already know that... ;). So, make your choice. --Senvaikis (talk) 14:40, November 14, 2018 (UTC)

Admin status

After long deliberation, Senv and I have agreed to revoke your admin status. Please don't ask for our reasons, they're spread out over your (and our) talk page(s).

Consider this also to be a warning shot – if your behaviour, especially towards other non-admins, doesn't improve, we see no other option than to block you. — 6×9 (Talk) 15:45, November 15, 2018 (UTC)

Removing info added by other users

If you know for a fact that the length is wrong, say so in the summary. If you don't, leave it. — 6×9 (Talk) 07:39, November 17, 2018 (UTC)

The ones I removed are not valid, since I have looked for them, tonight and when i created them:
We know that discogs does not provide length.
Those lengths are fiction, one who enters them is supposed to provide the source, in AF or summary. hth. --ES (talk) 07:43, November 17, 2018 (UTC)
Hence "say so in the summary". As for "is supposed to provide the source", you're confusing us with Wikipedia. As for "discogs does not provide", Discogs1 look again. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:14, November 17, 2018 (UTC)
thanks.I had credits hidden. --ES (talk) 08:17, November 17, 2018 (UTC)

Ikey Robinson compilation 1929-1937 and Pizen Tea Blues / Rock Pile Blues single

For compilation 1929 - 1937, I used Discogs. When you look at the listing of the songs for the compilation, each song has a length. Simple addition gave me the total length. Also for the single Pizen Tea Blues / Rock Pile Blues. These songs are on the compilation has have lengths. Again, simple addition gave me the totals. True I have not seem a listing for the single length anywhere that shows the time, but as stated, the same songs are on the compilation with times.

13th Floor Elevators:A Love That's Sound (1968)

On this one, you are probably correct in removing the length. I could not find this listing anywhere. I found a Youtube that had the album, but it had extra tracks ( ). So mainly, I took the lengths from the album "Bull of the Woods" for a number of the songs and then found the songs on other compilations and used their lengths. So you are probably right to remove the length on this album

Removing information

[10] Why? — 6×9 (Talk) 15:52, November 28, 2018 (UTC)

Did you mean: [11]? Discogs1? --ES (talk) 15:57, November 28, 2018 (UTC)
Who plays on which album. — 6×9 (Talk) 16:07, November 28, 2018 (UTC)
Album specific details are listed on the album. I can make the other album, if there are lyrics --ES (talk) 16:11, November 28, 2018 (UTC)
There aren't. So why remove the information? — 6×9 (Talk) 16:15, November 28, 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for splitting hairs, hope you find the new version more complete. --ES (talk) 16:22, November 28, 2018 (UTC)


Unless the genre param has been filled in by bot, using external sources rather than familiarity with an album to replace it is a bad idea. I suggest you stop it and revert those edits where you're not sure. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:04, December 6, 2018 (UTC)

CtC, I checked the song credits of the album and the same editor's contribs at the artist page (2008, 2009, 2016, 2017), yes... familiar.
I am sure all pages I labeled "... Blues" also meet "Folk", but that is not the same sure as in: "an LP is not a CD for sure. --ES (talk) 00:38, December 7, 2018 (UTC)
Musician, not writing, credits. Neither Stormcock nor Sophisticated Beggar are in any way, by any definition of the term, Folk Rock, so you obviously didn't know what you were doing. Since it's highly unlikely that those two were exceptions, kindly undo your edits or verify them (which means listening to the albums in question). — 6×9 (Talk) 16:36, December 7, 2018 (UTC)
I have listened to all of His albums, over the years, many times. Obviously we disagree on the genre, not unlikely that people disagree on genres while being fans of the artist: RYM. --ES (talk) 22:17, December 7, 2018 (UTC)
Then explain how something without any rock elements whatsoever can be called Folk Rock. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:14, December 8, 2018 (UTC)
Other sites have got around this by allowing reviews, multiple album genres AllMusic i, Discogs1, voting on album genres, or even allowing song genres.
I think calling it plain Folk is too vague, given all the other plain Folk artists.
Meanwhile the search for The Authority on Album Genres continues. --ES (talk) 08:43, December 8, 2018 (UTC)
Too vague is better than plain wrong, but we've been over this already. — 6×9 (Talk) 09:21, December 8, 2018 (UTC)
A lot of people apparently got it plain wrong, or all those votes and opinions were bot work. --ES (talk) 09:25, December 8, 2018 (UTC)
There is an empty reviews box on the album page at his website... --ES (talk) 09:44, December 8, 2018 (UTC)
Again missing the point (not blindly relying on external sources) completely, and even then ridiculous – 4 pro is hardly a "lot of people", especially vs. 38 against. — 6×9 (Talk) 16:44, December 8, 2018 (UTC)
While 69 (blindly, by your estimation) voted for Progressive Folk at RYM. Essentially anything but Folk would be labelled blindly relying on external sites. Leadbelly, John McDowell, Almeda Riddle etc. are in good company with Roy. You have yet to explain why it is not anything but folk, per ensemble you hint. Do musicians define the style? The search continues. --ES (talk) 17:00, December 8, 2018 (UTC)
Learn to read. I never wrote anywhere that anything but Folk is wrong. Folk Rock, however, is wrong, utter absence of rock instrumentation being one strong hint.
So are you going to re-check all pages where you replaced Folk with whatever some external source suggested? — 6×9 (Talk) 19:02, December 8, 2018 (UTC)
You restored Folk Rock with Folk because (as you called it) it was a blind edit, unfamiliar with the artist/album. By the vote of the majority Progressive Folk and Folk Rock are not outlandish evaluations, which would be Dead Wrong and require restoration.
Your evaluation of Folk Rock being dead wrong is just your opinion. And plenty more contrary opinion exist. --ES (talk) 07:26, December 9, 2018 (UTC)
Stop bringing Progressive Folk into this, it has nothing to do with the issue. 4 out of 42 is not a majority. And if genres are merely a matter of opinion, we should immediately remove any params/templates – opinions belong on talk pages, not in categories.6×9 (Talk) 08:30, December 9, 2018 (UTC)
If the matter was not a matter of opinion, why would RYM community allow multiple genres and voting on them? Of course there would be Dead Wrong values for any album/artist (RH as Heavy Metal, Country etc.) Personal listening experience of an album is not a guarantee of all listeners coming to the same inner conclusion as the exact applicable style. Listeners do not arrive at an evaluation based on a prescribed vision through a path that leads to the same outcome. That there is a diversity of opinion is a given, not a dead wrong exception. --ES (talk) 08:52, December 9, 2018 (UTC)
Per policy we have multiple external sources on genre cat pages. If you have new ideas on genre matters, let the community decide. --ES (talk) 16:18, December 9, 2018 (UTC)
As usual, erecting one straw man after another rather than even once admitting you might have made even the smallest error of judgement. — 6×9 (Talk) 17:31, December 9, 2018 (UTC)
A discussion on genre matters with wide participation...--ES (talk) 17:59, December 9, 2018 (UTC)

Are you or are you not going to review your edits? — 6×9 (Talk) 20:39, December 9, 2018 (UTC)

Provide a link as to how to distinguish a dead wrong genre, that would require reversion, per your recersions. --ES (talk) 21:00, December 9, 2018 (UTC)
[12] So are you going to review your edits? — 6×9 (Talk) 07:23, December 10, 2018 (UTC)
Calling external sites Genres are perfectly ok, in fact @ BC artists do provide the genre for their own albums. As for each site's genre and review, the link is in the album footer. --ES (talk) 09:25, December 10, 2018 (UTC)
So you won't review your edits? — 6×9 (Talk) 18:57, December 10, 2018 (UTC)
All of them, and not just for genre. --ES (talk) 19:01, December 10, 2018 (UTC)


Hi ES! Notice the band refers themselves as Taxi, without the acute a. Only in compilation albums made by others they are listed as Táxi (with acute a).[13][14] Securita (talk) 09:07, December 11, 2018 (UTC)

Unlinked items in non-OS sections

It would be nice to follow your own good advise, especially when song appears on the ITunes icon album, not a single. --Senvaikis (talk) 22:54, December 11, 2018 (UTC)

Error on userpage

It says you're an admin but you're not. I recommend changing that. —Justin (koavf)·T·C 06:41, December 12, 2018 (UTC)

Correct way?

Should it be labeled Tobin Sprout:Live At The Horseshoe Tavern (2005) or Tobin Sprout:2004-04-19: Live At The Horseshoe Tavern (2005)‎? BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 12:18, December 27, 2018 (UTC)

Is it possible to move File:Tobin Sprout - 2004-04-19- Live at the Horseshoe Tavern.jpg to File:Tobin Sprout - Live at the Horseshoe Tavern.jpg? BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 12:39, December 27, 2018 (UTC)
It's ok at the current name. --ES (talk) 12:43, December 27, 2018 (UTC)
Alright. Thank you. BuffaloBillsFan (talk) 12:51, December 27, 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for tidying up the List

Thanks for tidying up the List, I love the fact that you added bold text. Cheers.


Warren Woodhouse | Blog | Talk | Videos | Quote: "I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. What I can't accept is not trying." - Quote By: Michael Jordan 17:36, January 21, 2019 (UTC)

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