FANDOM

2,054,148 Pages

Archive

User_talk:DesPhagues/2017

Uploading Album Art

If an album page is created first, uploading the art from the link on the album page automatically fills the mandatory template. hth. --ES (talk) 16:51, April 1, 2017 (UTC)

Artist/Song title variations, misspellings etc.

...does not lead to new pages: [1]. Please see Help:Redirect. hth --ES (talk) 14:26, April 2, 2017 (UTC)

Editing Feats

Please see {{SongHeader}} --ES (talk) 15:52, April 9, 2017 (UTC)

Was following guidelines from Help:Contents/Editing/Formatting/Songs#SongHeader_Template: The song, artist, language and star parameters are required. All other parameters are optional. Exception: For instrumentals, the language parameter should be omitted. DesPhagues (talk) 16:40, April 9, 2017 (UTC)
If feat is to be indicated at all, the number one place for it is on the song page, not the artist or album page, since it is data associated with the song, so it won't get lost... --ES (talk) 16:49, April 9, 2017 (UTC)
I hear you. It becomes problematic for me though with a track like Kerrigan-Lowdermilk:Run Away With Me that appears on the original album twice (by 2 different artists) but with the same text and then again on the live album with yet another artist. In this case I have tried to use feat1 and feat2 to distinguish on the single album but it does not cover the live album scenario. any advice on this scenario? DesPhagues (talk) 17:11, April 9, 2017 (UTC)
You can insert the details of the diff recordings in {{CreditBox}} trivia, or use addtext in {{SongHeader}}...--ES (talk) 17:24, April 9, 2017 (UTC)
That feels to me like it adds too much of a burden when adding songs and seems inconsistent with preserving links from songs to artists. So I believe that I will stick to the letter of the help text in this scenario. Thanks for the assistance. DesPhagues (talk) 18:00, April 9, 2017 (UTC)

Deleted blog

For reference, since I can't restore it ("You cannot undelete this page as there is no existing page with this name and you are not allowed to create this page.") and deleted contribs are invisible to non-admins. If there were any replies by other users, they don't show up anymore. Feel free to move this to the CP, or re-create the blog post. — 6×9 (Talk) 09:03, April 15, 2017 (UTC)

You are a scholar and a gentleman - thank you!

Duplicate lyrics

Brian Justin Crum:Show Me Love has the same lyrics as Brian Justin Crum:Light, I suppose that was copy & paste gone wrong… — 6×9 (Talk) 20:52, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

Great catch, thanks! I have posted the corrected lyrics now. DesPhagues (talk) 03:56, April 21, 2017 (UTC)


Response to Let It Be ... Naked (2003)

What if I did something similar to what was done with Get Back? - [2] - near the top it says Info - for the single version seen on several compilation albums see here, with a link.

Could I say for the version seen on the original 1970 LP, see here:, with a link?

Also, do you have any suggestions on how to protect my work - I actually corrected Get Back 2 weeks ago, but my edit was undone about 3 days ago.

Is this normally addressed by explaining what I'm trying to do on the song's Talk page before I start?

I've looked at all the talk pages, and nobody certified the lyrics vs. Let It Be... Naked.

Also, some of the links for buying the song take one to different Beatles Albums, even though this is one is readily available in the same stores. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pastafazoo (talkcontribs), 05:32, 2 May 2017‎.

I am not an admin and fairly new to actually using the site myself so I can't give definitive answers, just suggestions. As I understand it, the aim of LW is to represent the lyrics as sung on a recording, not what the liner notes or other sites say the lyrics are, but what is actually sung. Even though your lyrics may be the correct ones, the spoken bits etc. make the 1970 version of the song different to the 2003 naked remixed version when you listen to the song.
For this reason your changes to, for instance, Get Back, were reverted. These lyrics have been certified by 2 people for both the 1970 LP and 1987 CD versions of the album and the page has a watcher who will likely undo any changes you make to their version of the song as it simply does not match the lyrics on their version.
Let it Be has probably not been certified against the 2003 version because it does not match and therefore is not the same object for the purposes of LW.
When I look for an album so that I can read the lyrics of the song I am listening to, the lyrics should match when I listen to the 1970 LP/1987 CD version of the song, and when I listen to the (2003 Naked Remix) version of the song. Hence the suggestion to create new pages for the songs with the disambiguation like [The Beatles:Let It Be (2003 Naked Remix)|Let it Be] that contain your lyrics. The Beatles:Get Back (Single Version) is actually a good example of how this is done.
As you have listened to the song comparing your lyrics you could the certify this version of the new song page that you have created and add yourself as a watcher so that you can undo any changes someone makes to your page. As far as I am aware only Admins can lock pages, so you will have to rely on either following the page or adding yourself as a watcher.
The help documentation recommends looking at gold rated pages for examples on how to do things correctly, so your thought on Info - for the single version seen on several compilation albums see here, with a link seems like a good one. It might look better if your info is just added to the same infobox, i.e. Info - for the single version seen on several compilation albums see here, with a link. For the 2003 Nakes Remixed version see here with a link. However, the policy is that any changes to gold star pages must be discussed and agreed on the song's discussion page first.
I would definitely copy the infobox to your version of the (2003 Naked Remix) with the text For the album version found on the album Let It Be (1970), see here. just like on The Beatles:Get Back (Single Version).
As for dead links on purchasing albums, this is unfortunately the case on many old LPs or CDs that run out of stock and then are simply not available for purchase any more. This does not mean that someone doesn't own it and want the lyrics to their version though :)
Hopefully I have addressed all of your questions but please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions on the above or any new questions for that matter...
DesPhagues (talk) 07:31, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

If I read correctly, you are recommending creating new pages for each of these songs, with Info boxes that say "For the 1970 album version of the song click here..

But then, how do the songs get all get listed again as part of Let It Be... Naked (2003?

I'd like the user to be able to search for Let It Be.. Naked and be presented with an album containing a list of songs with accurate lyrics for this 2003 album. Not the 1970 LP or its 1987 CD equivalent.

There are even larger issues with the Fly On The Wall bonus CD that was part of this release. Some of the tracks are as short as 5-10 seconds, and have no lyrics at all - or only a few. In spite of that, these tracks all give full lyrics from other albums.

If you look at Beatles Anthology, if a demo or partial track is instrumental only, you see a logo for a musical note and the word instrumental. Eleanor Rigby is one example. Beatles Anthology contains the string arrangement with no vocals.

What if I follow Echo Sierra's suggestion and post my concerns on each song's talk page and see if I can get any sort of response from the community? I agree with you that a user of LyricWikia should be able to get the lyrics for the album he owns and is listening to - not something that's been copied and pasted from a different album. At least I think that's what you were advocating. I have already contacted the certifiers and watchers, but have never received any responses. My one edit that was quickly reverted was not reverted by the listed watcher - just another helpful person.

This may prove to be annoying and difficult enough that I'll leave it alone. Thanks for your input, regardless.

--Pastafazoo (talk) 18:03, May 19, 2017 (UTC)

I am indeed advocating for having a separate version for those tracks where the lyrics differ from what you are seeing when you click on the link for the song that you have created.
If a song is certified then I don't think that Echo Sierra's suggestion is going to get you anywhere because no-one is going to want to change their version of the song to match something that does not reflect the exact lyrics on their album.
So, in the spirit of trying to clarify what I am suggesting as a solution, I have actually done it on the track Get Back by:
  1. creating The Beatles:Get Back (Naked Version) page [3] and
  2. changing the album The Beatles:Let It Be... Naked (2003) page to point to the new track page[4][5]
  3. changing the Let It Be... Naked (2003) album on The Beatles page to point to the new track page[6][7]
You can update the lyrics on this track to match your version exactly.
Note: I have simply copied what I needed from the 1970 version of the track to make my life a little easier by opening the 1970's version in edit mode in a different window and copying what I need without saving that page, but just clicking back in my browser on that page instead.
You can click on edit on each of the above pages to see how I have done it without saving, but just clicking back in your browser once you have seen what you need to see.
-
As for instrumentals, it is actually quite easy according to Help:Contents/Editing/Formatting/Songs#Instrumentals and Help:Contents/Editing/Formatting/Songs#Language_Parameter
You simply remove the Language parameter from the {{SongHeader}} and insert {{Instrumental}} between the lyrics tags where you would normally place the lyrics and hey presto, the music note with Instrumental text appears.
By way of example I have done this for you on the track The Beatles:John's Piano Piece (Naked Version)
I hope that this clears things up a bit ?
DesPhagues (talk) 09:47, May 20, 2017 (UTC)

Alas, your kind and helpful revision to Get Back (the Naked Version), which I was starting to use as a template for creating a new page for Dig A Pony, is gone. It has been turned into a redirect page, which takes one back to the old version. I thought maybe I could get one song a day accomplished, perhaps. Right in the middle of creating Dig A Pony, I got locked out.

Thanks anyway --Pastafazoo (talk) 05:27, May 21, 2017 (UTC)

Keep the faith, it may take a day for xxTimberlakexx to Respond as he lives in Florida with a large time difference but we should be able to get to the bottom of this. Logically this is a different object in LW terms, so I am sure that we can sort it out...
DesPhagues (talk) 05:58, May 21, 2017 (UTC)

Hi Pastafazoo, so it appears that my optimism was misplaced and I have been unable to make our case for the right to the correct lyrics for Let It Be.... Naked to exist with the XxTimberlakex fellow. I have posted an entry on the community portal for the help docs to be updated so that someone does not spend hours like you did with nothing to show for it and I am sorry that you have seemingly wasted so much of your valuable time. DesPhagues (talk) 09:13, May 22, 2017 (UTC)

Hi - thanks for all your support and advocacy. Would it be worth spending any of time to find one of the songs where the actual verses are slightly different as an illustration for xxTimberlake?

No offense, but I'm not a she, live near Chicago, USA.

The only reason I was trying to change anything in Let It Be Naked... was that I like to use LyricWikia as an easy way to get lyrics (as in copy and paste) for either iTunes purchases or CD rips. It became apparent very early on that Let It Be Naked... on LyricWikia wasn't going to be as useful as I had hoped. I have my own album with correct lyrics in iTunes, just wanted to "share the wealth".

This isn't completely relevant, but what is the LyricWikia official policy on a single, which often might be perhaps 1 minute shorter and lacking a chorus, verse or even more?

This shows me how the contributor(s) that worked on Beatles Anthologies were successful on some of those songs - in all cases where they did something that peculiar to the Anthology version, they did create a "unique object" - like Eleanor Rigby (Strings Only) or One After 909 (False Starts). While My Guitar Gently Weeps matches the White Album version, and is missing a verse that's on the demo that's on Anthology. They didn't create While My Guitar Gently Weeps (Anthology), and therefore, the Anthology version is up to the listener to correct - no help from LyricWikia.

--Pastafazoo (talk) 14:21, May 22, 2017 (UTC)

My sincere apologies on the she, it didn't say anything about male/female on your profile and for some reason my mind thought of this as a female name.
Yes, I am sure that it would help to find a track that has significantly different lyrics but as I understand how things stand now you would only be allowed to create a Naked Version for the tracks with significant differences and not the others, so some help but it does not go all the way to meeting your needs...
Who knows, some admins may still step in and allow for the solution of allowing both versions to co-exist peacefully for the rest of the tracks as well.
User:6_times_9, who is one of the two active bureaucrats on the site (The other is User:Senvaikis - both have been nothing but excellent in all of my dealings with them so far) has added the strikeout line to Koavf's edit, which means 6x9 read the subject but has not commented, which is not looking too good. I would give it a few days to allow more admins to see it but active admins are becoming scarcer by the day by the looks of things. LyricWiki:Administrators
Perhaps you can have a look at https://www.musixmatch.com/album/The-Beatles/Let-It-Be-Naked as they seem to have lyrics for this album (albeit the 2013 version) and you may be able to share your hard work there instead/as well ?
Apologies if I sound a bit apathetic, but I am feeling a little less enthusiastic about the site today than I usually am. I am sure that I will be back to my chipper self again after a good night of sleep.
DesPhagues (talk) 16:37, May 22, 2017 (UTC)

Covers

This is (not exactly, though) a followup to the remix issue. What about cover versions- they are frequently quite different in lyric content. In the editing guidelines, I found information on the "This is a cover", and "Covered by" templates, but no information on whether I won't run into flak for changing a lyric that's different as performed by a different artist.

Thanks in advance --Pastafazoo (talk) 15:20, June 18, 2017 (UTC)

When it is a cover version by a different artist you can enter the lyrics exactly as they are sung by the cover artist on a new page named Cover Artist:Track Title, there is no rule that the lyrics should or should not match exactly with the covered song by the original artist.
Just remember to add {{Cover}} to the cover song and {{Covered}} to the original song.
You can see as example of a cover Brian Justin Crum:Creep and the covered song Radiohead:Creep.
This one should at least be easy ;) DesPhagues (talk) 17:52, June 18, 2017 (UTC)

SOTD July 28, 2017

Hi DesPhagues! I'm just here to tell you that your nomination of Wyke Van Weelden:World Of Blue has won Song of the Day for July 28, 2017!
Thanks for nominating a song and for contributing to LyricWiki!
-ÜberBot (talk) 07:00, July 28, 2017 (UTC)

SOTD September 15, 2017

Hi DesPhagues! I'm just here to tell you that your nomination of Andrea Bocelli:'O Mare E Tu has won Song of the Day for September 15, 2017!
Thanks for nominating a song and for contributing to LyricWiki!
-ÜberBot (talk) 07:00, September 15, 2017 (UTC)


Back to an old issue

This is a little more simple (I hope) than the last firestorm I ignited- same artist, somewhat different song - but I am still gun shy from the last one. Here goes:

In 1964, Joan Baez covered an old country/folk/gospel song that dated to 1939. I've listened, and it's the original lyrics and played in a pretty simple, traditional style.

In 1969, she recorded it again for David's Album, with a modern Nashville sound. Vietnam was a hot issue for her (her husband was about to go to jail for resisting the draft), and she cowrote an additional, antiwar, politically oriented verse to end the song that doesn't really blend with the old gospel song. The writing credits for it are the original 1939 writers, plus her and her producer.

If I use the 1964 version for her 1969 album, it's missing a verse, likewise if I try to use the 1969 composition, it doesn't match her traditional 1964 release.

The only other place that her 1969 version is seen is on 2 1970s compilations from her. Pretty sure nobody else has covered it. The 1939 version has been covered by at least 10 artists. Hank Williams, Baez, Peter Paul and Mary, and even The Staple Singers.

So, this is less "fuzzy" than the live/remix question - I hope. One administrator has suggested creating 2 Joan Baez songs (one including the name of her 1964 album, the other containing the name of her 1969 album, plus a disambiguation page, which I've never created before. I'm still concerned that an admin somewhere is going to go jump all over it, though.

Thanks--Pastafazoo (talk) 14:45, July 24, 2018 (UTC)

Community content is available under Copyright unless otherwise noted.