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An Accident

Hi, 6

have no clue how could that happen, but Lwt somehow managed to completely destroy {{Cover}} (see the history). Template has stopped working and became absolutely inaccessible, together with entire its edit history. I've managed to "scrape" the last your working edition via api - and save it into tmp page. Unfortunately now I should leave LW for a while, - hope you'll be able to restore functionality of tl:Cover.
I'm really sorry for a damage done, - my apologies; cul, --Senvaikis (talk) 13:54, January 7, 2016 (UTC)
Well – it saved me from potential boredom :-) Weird thing is, I could access the source through API, but not save any changes. Luckily, moving your restored page over the corrupt page worked. — 6×9 (Talk) 17:08, January 7, 2016 (UTC)
That's fine (glory be!), but anyways the reasons of this accident still remain absolutely mystical to me. What I know for sure - is that Lwt could not make this damage without my interactive participation - it may do smth similar regularly, with 1h interval, but only at ##h:0#m. This strange Lwt revision timestamp was ~##:3#, so I'm pretty sure that was one of my ordinary edits, using Lwt as a tool interactively. And I'm sure that was an attempt to set a SF.lang to one of 2 songs, misattributed atm to SNLI (see my notes 1, 2).
In other words, something strange has been happened already with this template atm of my edition? But anyways - how could this edition of song "travel" into template? And how could it make template (almost)absolutely inaccessible?
Should confess, I absolutely do not understand anything here. Do you, 6? --Senvaikis (talk) 20:02, January 7, 2016 (UTC)
Wish I had any answers.
(1) Neither you nor Lwt made any other edits within 30' of that one. Do you have a cat? (I'm not willing to believe in ghosts, yet…)
(2) I usually get timeouts when changing widely-used templates, but complete and prolonged inaccessibility through frontend and inability to edit through api are new. Closest thing were the Songs: Ohia pages, but even those could be edited through api. It must be related to the number of pages using it, because I could save & edit the faulty code in my sandbox with no problem. But how that would disable even viewing of the history is beyond me.
(Wild stab in the dark) Maybe both were caused by a server-side bug? Some mixup of page ids, two transactions interfering, I don't know… Yesterday was Wednesday, the day Wikia does updates, although that might have nothing to do with it. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:54, January 7, 2016 (UTC)
(1)You say - any edits? But you are looking at the current history, which somehow magically no longer contains the mentioned revision! But I've seen it! And I'm sure you could see it also - it should have been visible on api request atm of my first msg (containing correctly filled-in SongFooter...).
So, - no cats, no ghosts, - at least on my side :). But not sure about server-side... Well, let's leave it, at least today - nite :) --Senvaikis (talk) 22:06, January 7, 2016 (UTC)
Wait, the template page was completely inaccessible for you two? I was able to view it (and its history) via browser before it was fixed and wondered why it wasn't as simple as undoing Lwt's edit, but I figured if it was that simple, somebody would have already undone it, and so I didn't try (oops…). - OneTwoThreeFall talk 03:27, January 8, 2016 (UTC)
@Senv: no edits other than the one to tl:Cover (which is still visible in deleted revisions) I mean, either in regular or deleted contribs. See screenshot.
@123F: More weirdness to add to the growing pile. Assuming Wikia has multiple servers, it's possible both Senv & I (being in Europe) access the same slave, while the rest was not affected. — 6×9 (Talk) 06:33, January 8, 2016 (UTC)

Pages for Works from Pre-recording Eras

Belated Frohes Neues to you, 6.

I am sorry to come up with this now, after you just implemented the new {{AlbumHeader}}. I guess I was a little inattentive.

As we agreed almost two years ago, we'd need an additional parameter to handle works from the pre-recording eras: I was thinking of "works" or "composition", adding those pages not to cat:album, but "works" or "compositions" instead. (Works might be better though, since we could also cover the works of lyricists, e.g. Walther von der Vogelweide). And maybe it would make sense to introduce additional stypes for opera, operetta, song cycle, mass, musical play etc.? You think you can add those? If we had that fixed, I could then update the docs accordingly and we could finally fix the pages.

As for covers for those releases: Since it's impossible to find cover pics for most of those releases, do you think we could set a default "works" pic, if AH:cover is not present for those types? Thx,  · Lichtweber talk service  14:32, January 18, 2016 (UTC)

A Frohes Neues to you too! All of the above are possible. Rather than add a parameter, we could reserve "type = work" instead. stypes aren't hardcoded, but I'd suggest naming it "wtype" instead. Also, I'd leave C:Album in and use C:Work in addition (like with comps and soundtracks). We might want to change "Albums released in" to "Works somethinged in" though…? Or maybe not categorise per year at all? We'd probably get too many 1-member cats pre-1900. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:21, January 20, 2016 (UTC)
Working example (no change to "Released in" yet). — 6×9 (Talk) 19:07, January 20, 2016 (UTC)
C sounds good to me, not sure if ES agrees, though..
So you think we could make the combination type= work and wtype=opera appear as "Opera by ARTIST"? That'd be great.
"Works released" should be OK, don't you think? But you're pbly right that it'd be no use to categorise them by year at all, dunno.  · Lichtweber talk service  19:06, January 20, 2016 (UTC)
Weird, should have gotten edit conflict but didn't… Changed to display "wtype by ARTIST". — 6×9 (Talk) 19:15, January 20, 2016 (UTC)
Categorizing works by artist makes a lot more sense than by year, methinks. Also adding art associated with a particular album of a performance of the work would be confusing, don't y'all'en think? --ES (talk) 19:23, January 20, 2016 (UTC)
As for the art bit, instead of one generic work image, why not use the image of the composer? --ES (talk) 19:28, January 20, 2016 (UTC)
They'd be in "Albums by ARTIST" cats like regular albums – if you want to be sure you get only works, you can intersect with C:Works.
Are you suggesting we disable albumcovers and always show default pic? Some (newer) works might have associated images though (illustrations, posters etc.). Mugshots would be out of place on album/work pages – they belong on artist pages IMO. — 6×9 (Talk) 19:34, January 20, 2016 (UTC)
Looks great to me. I agree with 6 on pics. Please let me know when implemented and thanks again!  · Lichtweber talk service  19:58, January 20, 2016 (UTC)
Looks good. Any accommodation for poets? (this being a site dedicated to the written word...) --ES (talk) 20:20, January 20, 2016 (UTC)

{{Parody}} extension

Hey 6,

Is it possible for the parody template to be extended, because this song has 22 songs parodied, while the template only allows for 20. Thanks - Patzilla777 (talk - contributions) 17:46, January 19, 2016 (UTC)

done6×9 (Talk) 18:13, January 20, 2016 (UTC)

Equal sign in tl:lw

Hi, 6

could you please make a small fix to {{lw}}, - now it misreads any "=" char as sign of named parameter existence, producing [{{canonicalurl:{{{1}}}}} {{{1}}}] instead of Clark Hutchinson:A=MH² (1969).
tia, --Senvaikis (talk) 06:34, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
Unfixable I'm afraid – that's the drawback of implicitly named parameters. You can work around it by adding explicit name: {{lw|1=Clark Hutchinson:A=MH² (1969)}}Clark Hutchinson:A=MH² (1969) (second param, if present, then needs to be prefixed with 2=). — 6×9 (Talk) 12:02, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
done Updated tl:doc.  · Lichtweber talk service  12:44, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
Thx! — 6×9 (Talk) 17:37, January 21, 2016 (UTC)

Redundant Marlene Dietrich albums

Hi Six, I've added a new compilation album with some very rare tracks to MD. Now I guess that there could be redundant albums. Do you have a method to find it out qickly? As far as I have seen, this one could be deleted: Marlene Dietrich:Die Frühen Aufnahmen (1993), but please re-check it. Nearly all of her albums are compilation album, so it is very difficult to find out which of them to choose (discogs knows about 90) for to have as much as possible songs with as less as possible albums. --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 05:59, January 24, 2016 (UTC)

done (-3 redund. albs), --Senvaikis (talk) 08:45, January 24, 2016 (UTC)
Thank you very much, Senvaikis. --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 14:05, January 24, 2016 (UTC)

Award Template

Hi 6, care to have a look here? Thx  · Lichtweber talk service  17:33, January 24, 2016 (UTC)

I hate the blog function. I spent about 10 minutes typing a reply, then hit "Post comment" & got an error message about a problem with my login session (what problem? I could save this comment just fine), & all the text I had typed was gone. Of course this would be one of the few times I didn't bother to copy to clipboard first… — 6×9 (Talk) 21:07, January 24, 2016 (UTC)
Sry to hear that. So did you find out what the problem was?  · Lichtweber talk service  20:33, January 26, 2016 (UTC)
Yup – a 6-year-old error. Goes to show how little use this template sees if it took that long for someone to notice… — 6×9 (Talk) 19:30, January 27, 2016 (UTC)

00101010s Other Songs behavior

Hello 6 x 9, how often does your bot check for new other songs on artist pages? Or better can you tell me why it didn't add Jolene to The BossHoss yet? Greetings, --Fassbrause (talk) 13:57, January 30, 2016 (UTC)

Normally every 90 days – unless a song turns up in the Orphanage or I run it manually. — 6×9 (Talk) 14:00, January 30, 2016 (UTC)
Okay, yes that sounds fair Smile Thank you. --Fassbrause (talk) 14:05, January 30, 2016 (UTC)


Dead by Dawn Bronze Demotion

Hi, why was the aforementioned song demoted from silver to bronze? I saw that your reasoning was that it "needs credits," but from my understanding, it's only gold songs where a credit box is required. Am I mistaken? (Thineshire (talk) 21:19, February 1, 2016 (UTC))

Nope, the help page says silver songs need credits. - Patzilla777 (talk - contributions) 21:29, February 1, 2016 (UTC)
But it says so in the to-do section for upgrading to gold, not that it's required for silver. That being said, I did neglect the certification, so I suppose the downgrade was still warranted. (Thineshire (talk) 21:35, February 1, 2016 (UTC))
Actually, certification is only needed for Gold, so technically it can be ranked Silver (I remembered that bit about credits wrong, sry).
Not sure the "all the important information has been obtained ... fast approaching perfection" bit was fulfilled (apart from missing credits, album link led to a redirect), but since the vast majority of our Gold pages mainly fulfil the technical requirements rather than being "example[s] of excellence" that would be hardly fair. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:08, February 2, 2016 (UTC)
Understood about the redirect; I'll avoid that in the future. Thanks for understanding and re-upgrading. :) (Thineshire (talk) 16:59, February 2, 2016 (UTC))

Album List pages

Is Template:Album List still in use? From the couple pages using it that I looked at, it seems to be very neglected. For example, Hawkwind/Albums is only used on one album as well as being out of date, and then there's Smack Dab/Albums which only has one album on it, meaning it's completely useless. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 01:37, February 10, 2016 (UTC)

It is not mandatory and not widely used, but it's not abandoned either. Maybe I should set my bot on cases like Hawkwind's…
You're definitely right about Smack Dab though – I've deleted that one. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:01, February 10, 2016 (UTC)

Scotland No. 1s?

Re. 00101010's recent edits: is Scotland not to be used here? Even if not, changing them all to the United Kingdom seems incorrect - for example: Avicii:Hey Brother was a No. 1 in Scotland, but only a No. 2 in the United Kingdom as a whole. - OneTwoThreeFall talk 10:44, February 10, 2016 (UTC)

I'd assumed that was an accident – especially since England, Wales or N. Ireland have no separate No.1 categories. If you think Scotland as separate cat should be restored, I'll undo 42's edits. — 6×9 (Talk) 19:56, February 10, 2016 (UTC)
Scotland (and only Scotland, it seems) have their own chart listings, so I don't see an issue with a category for them. Someone's already added it back for the current No. 1, so people definitely use it. - OneTwoThreeFall talk 17:36, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
Restored Scotland for the other 164 pages as well. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:22, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
Thank you! - OneTwoThreeFall talk 18:28, February 11, 2016 (UTC)

Template help

Hi 6, how do you manage to fetch the song param of SF (i.e. proper capitalisation) in other templates? I need that for {{Volksliederarchiv}} and other templates I'm working on. Much obliged,  · Lichtweber talk service  16:01, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

You can use {{#var:song}} (variable is defined in SF, so is only available below that template). — 6×9 (Talk) 16:10, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Was That Album Actually Redundant?

Over the weekend, you deleted I Will Always Love You/The Essential Dolly Parton One (1995) because it was redundant. Was it actually redundant? This was the only Dolly Parton album on LW on which the duet Kenny Rogers & Dolly Parton:Islands In The Stream appeared. The song currently doesn't appear at all on Dolly Parton's page. If it were listed under the collaborations heading, that would seem to indicate that it hadn't appeared on a Dolly Parton album, which it has.

On the other hand, there is a Kenny Rogers & Dolly Parton collaborations page, where the song currently appears as an 'other song'. But it appears multiple times on the Kenny Rogers page, as several of his solo albums have the song.

On a related note, if a collaboration page exists, should the albums (and songs on those albums) listed there also appear on the original artist page in any form? --RWDCollinson (talk) 10:20, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

I'd rather avoid album pages for compilations just to allocate a single song – if the song is already listed on an existing album page, that's even more true.
Collab artist pages are problematic, and we haven't yet managed to deal with them consistently. Normally the rule should be to only create an artist page if there's more than one collab album, but here we have one album plus a couple songs. If we keep the page, the question is whether to have the odd songs link to it instead of the separate artists…
If a collab artist page exists, albums by that collab should only be listed there; the individual artists just get a link to the collab artist. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:03, February 15, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for this. If we only create the page for more than one collab album, where do collab albums go if there's only one? On the pages of both artists? --RWDCollinson (talk) 12:56, March 1, 2016 (UTC)
Ideally, all songs by an artist should be listed on that artist's page, but not all admins agree with me on that (since listing an album on n artist pages means that n+1 tracklists have to be kept in sync). An alternative is to just put a link to the collab album in the {{ArtistInfo}} template (using the collabs parameter). — 6×9 (Talk) 19:24, March 1, 2016 (UTC)

S -> SH

Hi, 6,

first of all - congrats with a start of this titanic job! Well Done!
Have you tried to evaluate an approximate timeline for it? Don't you think that for this time some msg with a minimal comments and recommendations should be published on our CP? --Senvaikis (talk) 08:12, February 17, 2016 (UTC)
Thank you! I was a bit surprised collabs got done so quickly – had to do quite a bit of tweaking first (lots of unexpected/invalid params).
tl:Song might take a few weeks (depending on how many simultaneous jobs I can get away with). There's another problem though: Can you edit the auto-template? I suspect wikia protected most of the mw namespace (except css, js & maybe a few others). — 6×9 (Talk) 18:14, February 17, 2016 (UTC)
Nope, - sorry, but next to you I may just to "View source". Is it possible to request edit permission grant for this ns? And whom should we ask for such grant? Just have no idea... :( --Senvaikis (talk) 20:40, February 17, 2016 (UTC)
I've sent a request through Special:Contact to at least make the mw:lwtemp pages editable for us admins. Not much else we can do…
Would be nice to be informed of these things rather than having to find out the hard way. Instead I just get mails and message boxes about events that have little or nothing to do with lyrics. — 6×9 (Talk) 21:17, February 17, 2016 (UTC)
I noticed this too a few days back and sent in a message about it, in the hopes it would be fixed before we needed it. Apparently there was a security issue a while back, and they now only have a whitelist. They said they'll look into whitelisting it though.
Congratulations on the start of the rollout, by the way - it's looking very nice! - OneTwoThreeFall talk 03:34, February 18, 2016 (UTC)
I don't really understand these things, but the new heading seems to work really well for collaborations. Are 'language' and 'song' now supposed to go in the header, then? Are the rest of us supposed to be switching to this template, or do you have some automatic process that will do it for all of the pages? I'm sorry for asking all these questions, but the help documentation doesn't seem to have been updated. --RWDCollinson (talk) 09:38, February 18, 2016 (UTC)
Hey, some answers to your questions can be found at the template page {{SongHeader}} and at the announcement on the Community Portal. Greetings, --Fassbrause (talk) 12:10, February 18, 2016 (UTC)
The plan was to convert all song collaborations first, make last improvements and bug fixes, then update the docs. Just didn't expect to finish with the first part so quickly… Existing pages will be converted by bot over the coming weeks; autotemplates for new pages will be updated soon (Kirkburn got back to me on the issue of MW pages & while the whitelist thing might take a while yet, he offered to make any necessary changes in the meantime). — 6×9 (Talk) 18:56, February 18, 2016 (UTC)
My alter ego asks: what songheader ({{Song}} or {{SongHeader}}) should be used on a new songs creation while your 42nd ego will be running The Job? --Senvaikis (talk) 21:04, February 18, 2016 (UTC)
Until I get to update the docs (hopefully tomorrow): maybe Song to be on the safe side, but I don't think using SH should hurt (much). After update we should "officially" switch to SH – it won't interfere with 42's job. — 6×9 (Talk) 21:18, February 18, 2016 (UTC)

Good news: Kirkburn just updated the autotemplates. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:18, February 19, 2016 (UTC)

Great work, 6! Thanks. I was just wondering if we also have to change conduct with homonymous artists due to different behaviour of SH? Please let me know,  · Lichtweber talk service  08:12, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
Use is simplified now; I've updated the help page accordingly. (Thanks for catching that!) — 6×9 (Talk) 08:24, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
Congrats again - this time with one month anniversary of the running task :). Any predictions about approximate date of the Final? --Senvaikis (talk) 13:16, March 17, 2016 (UTC)
I'll pass them on to 42 – it's doing all the work, I'm just checking in occasionally :-) Currently there's about 700,000 pages left of > 1.5m, so more than halfway through (and not far from another 1m landmark). At current rate of ~25 p/m it should be done in about 20 days fingers crossed for no more severe performance problems. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:33, March 17, 2016 (UTC)

Badges and SongHeader

Now that 'song' is set in the header, might it be a good idea to change the various song badges to use this by default, rather than having their own text set? This'd be especially useful for the Wikipedia badge ({{WP-Song|Blinded by the Light}} could be just {{WP-Song}}, for example). - OneTwoThreeFall talk 09:41, February 20, 2016 (UTC)

Definitely a good idea – though I'd rather wait until all songs use the new SH. 1st param in WP-Song is still necessary though, if WP use different capitalisation or if their page is disambig'ed. — 6×9 (Talk) 11:19, February 20, 2016 (UTC)
Ah, fair enough! Still necessary, but our display titles usually match Wikipedia's page titles (excepting disambig pages, of course), so hopefully it won't be needed as much as it currently is. - OneTwoThreeFall talk 14:44, February 20, 2016 (UTC)

SH and WrongTitle

Hey, I just wanted you to know, that SH's star and language icons might have some problems with WrongTitle template (i.e. AFI:The Spoken Word and if it's just me: SS). --Ozpl (talk) 11:37, February 21, 2016 (UTC)

It's not just you (although the problem disappears in monobook when width is sufficient to fit all of it onto one line).
The question is whether the page still needs the WT template, since the correct title is already displayed in the SH. Anyway, I've changed the layout a bit (so it uses less width & appears above the icons). Thanks for the notice! — 6×9 (Talk) 12:01, February 21, 2016 (UTC)

00101010, and fa params containing {{!}}

Hi again! Seems like 42 doesn't like featured artist links that use the {{!}} template? ([1], [2], [3], [4]) - OneTwoThreeFall talk 09:47, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

Dang! I had it right first, then changed it because the bot crashed on a few pages that had weird stuff like {{!|star=Green}}… Should be fixed now. Thanks for the notice! Off to finding any other pages where this happened… — 6×9 (Talk) 16:55, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

I usually tend to rush, but...

Hi, 6

Haven't you noticed a remarkable (if not catastrophic) drop of server performance? I'm not sure, but there's a slight suspicion that may be a result of hyper-intensive 42's job. How many parallel threads does it use currently? --Senvaikis (talk) 09:31, February 23, 2016 (UTC)
PS: seems to be a false alarm, - sorry (no, actually - glad) :). There should have been some other reasons for server probs (have gone without any 42's activity changes).
I'm sure the bot doesn't help matters though it uses threads (up to 6) only for page saves, but the performance problem started before I let it loose on tl:Song – noticeable on special pages which updated ~3hrs later than usual. (While I'm glad it's not my fault, at least then I could have reduced the problem by slowing down the bot…) — 6×9 (Talk) 16:44, February 23, 2016 (UTC)
I was wondering about the cause of that 3 hr delay (the night it appeared). Seems like 42 is going at a rate of 20 SH edits per minute, which mean it takes ~60 days to finish off! or my bad math. Is there somewhere to look at the job queue / sever load? --ES (talk) 18:43, February 23, 2016 (UTC)
I don't think we've had a job queue since moving to Wikia – something they might regret now… — 6×9 (Talk) 20:49, February 23, 2016 (UTC)
Anyways it's definitely clear that server performance downgrade has nothing to do with 42's job and has some other reasons (we haven't had any noticeable problems while Lwt was at his 3-threaded "spotifying" job, making over 100 updates per min).
Haven't you asked your fellow Kirkburn for some info, 6? --Senvaikis (talk) 07:34, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
I don't have his secret contact address – he just happened to be the one to reply to my S:C request… Is it just me or do pages generally load faster today? Special pages still delayed though… — 6×9 (Talk) 18:55, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
Yes, there are some signs of patient recovery - epilepsy seizures became less frequent, but not disappeared completely. And the sudden slowdown of pageloading up to 40s is not the worst thing during these seizures - they seem to freeze not only server caching system, but api also... After page updating it reloads almost a minute show the cached (not updated) content; the same goes to api - it doesn't show the last contribs etc. Writing this note during one more slippage - just can't do nothing else anyhow: tried to switch off custom.js - didn't help, thus now just waiting for the end of an ordinary seizure... --Senvaikis (talk) 09:13, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
Here's the screenshot of cropped RCs, showing up only 2(!) last changes instead of 500 queried. Something really wrong is going on lw... --Senvaikis (talk) 06:54, February 26, 2016 (UTC)
Same here – atm it only shows the last ~12.5hrs. For now, I've reduced # of threads to 3, we'll see if that improves things. — 6×9 (Talk) 17:37, February 26, 2016 (UTC)
What it didn't do is slow down the rate – still 20/min… — 6×9 (Talk) 06:58, February 27, 2016 (UTC)
"Due to high database server lag, changes newer than 1,101 seconds may not be shown in this list." (and rising) Plus, bot can't save any pages without getting "Pausing 60 seconds due to database server lag". I've turned off threading for now, but I doubt it'll help…
What's suspicious is that the lag started right when the special pages would usually update. Am I correct in assuming that was true the last few days as well? (Am @ work at that time Mo-Fr, so couldn't check.) So it's probably one of the daily maintenance scripts. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:14, February 27, 2016 (UTC)
Nope: same time, same server lag message. So it's definitely not my bot. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:07, February 28, 2016 (UTC)
Is this strange RC log (with hidebots on) somehow related to this thread or you just have dropped 42's bot flag? (Though its rights management page still shows it as a bot...) --Senvaikis (talk) 20:13, February 29, 2016 (UTC)
That's intentional – just in case some watcher is still around & just didn't notice their talk page. It's ugly, but this massive dewatching job Arwen alone has over 4000 pages… pity should be a one-time thing. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:19, February 29, 2016 (UTC)
Got it - thx :) --Senvaikis (talk) 20:25, February 29, 2016 (UTC)

Multiple Languages

Hi 6, there seems to be a problem with the ml template: only the last of multiple entries handled correctly. Am I missing something or is it the template? Please check Phil Harris:The Bare Necessities as an example and let me know. Thx  · Lichtweber talk service  13:48, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

The reason is very simple - as it is noted in {{MultipleLanguages}} documentation, it's is designed "...for songs that have been released in several languages by the same artist". --Senvaikis (talk) 14:01, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
Now that many song pages are assigned to real artists instead of companies such as Disney, I think ML needs adjusting.  · Lichtweber talk service  14:32, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
It's the same problem, when the version in the other language doesn't yet exist. --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 15:29, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
@Ignor: Contrary to previous one, which actually was just an example of template misusing, this prob may be considered as a small bug; small - because this template under design should be used for lw-existing songs only. --Senvaikis (talk) 17:11, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
In my eyes, a red link in the the template is challege to create the missing version. I usually used it for to create the new one. --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 17:21, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
I'd not recommend to use templates like {{MultipleLanguages}} or {{Covered}} as an instrument for creating such "red challenges" (same as in OS). If you really have some reliable info about a new song version existence, then the best solution would be adding an album, containing this song, to the artist page. --Senvaikis (talk) 17:44, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

Of course, after having created the song, I enter it to the artist'st page. But if I have the existing lang version, for me it's the easiest way to create the other one. What's wrong on doing it like that? --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 17:50, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

Nothing's wrong, if you create this page at once after including into ML or Covered.
The problem occurs when you decide to "do that later" and, as that often happens, ...forget about it:
  • Contrary to album, these templates aren't designed to provide any additional metadata, which could be considered as reliable evidence of this song version existence (and could be used by other editors, if you forget about your initial intentions).
  • Deadlinks in these templates may stay dataless & red for good, contrary to album - if it's not totally red and contains at least minimal required metadata, your "challenge" will be working and legitimate, - otherwise album will be just deleted sooner or later, together with all its dataless "challenges".
hth, --Senvaikis (talk) 18:21, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
  1. "Misuse" is definitely the wrong term: Due to recent (and not so recent) changes, some of our templates are just outdated and need overhauling.
  2. Red links in ML / "misuse": ML is designed "to allow for easier navigation between the different language releases of a song".  · Lichtweber talk service  18:34, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
@LW: #2: Exactly - navigation "between different releases", not "between releases and ...nothing" :)--Senvaikis (talk) 18:41, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
It will definitely be changed to use the full pagename – but to allow for the possibility of the same artists using different names, not for recordings by different artists (which should use tl:Cover(ed) instead). So "misuse" is correct. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:50, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
How do you determine whether e.g. a Disney song is a cover of another one when those songs/albums are just different language versions of the same work, simultanuously released in different countries?
I think we should handle those songs as what they are: language versions, not covers.  · Lichtweber talk service  19:06, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
If order of release can't be established, the version in the original language, from which the others were translated, would be the original and the rest covers. Alternatively there's this, but that's never been approved by the community and I don't think it would be appropriate here.
Additionally, opening ML to different artists will probably lead to abuse. I wouldn't want to see it linking from Paranoid to Cindy & Bert… — 6×9 (Talk) 20:43, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
What is the reason that the template should only be used for language versions by the same artist?  · Lichtweber talk service  15:01, February 26, 2016 (UTC)
If they're by different artists, they're covers. — 6×9 (Talk) 16:19, February 26, 2016 (UTC)

"ML is designed "to allow for easier navigation between the different language releases of a song". This time, please try and answer my question: What is the reason that a navigational template should only be used for language versions by the same artist?  · Lichtweber talk service  16:59, February 26, 2016 (UTC)

"This template is [...] for songs that have been released in several languages by the same artist." This time, please try and accept that I've answered your question. Also, don't cherry-pick quotes from help pages. — 6×9 (Talk) 17:19, February 26, 2016 (UTC)
OK, sry, I guess I didn't make myself clear. Trying another angle:

Use of ML for All Songs with Language Versions

I'd like to discuss the change of use of {{MultipleLanguages}}. Let's make it available for all songs with language versions, to make use of the navigational character of this template.

  • Pro:
    • making navigation also available to multi-lang songs by different performers (but same artist like writers, etc.) is userfriendly
    • connect songs that belong together (logic) with one template (efficiency)
    • Unlike other templates, ML displays name of language, userfriendly
  • Con: ?

 · Lichtweber talk service  21:32, February 28, 2016 (UTC)

To be strict, in terms of LW definitions your suggestion is going much closer to possible modification of {{Covered}}, not ML. ML is defined as the list of the same song, performed in multiple languages (once again - lw term "same song" means the song, performed by the same artist). You are speaking about recordings of the same musical work, performed by different artists, and as you know - namely Covered is used to list such recordings atm.
So, are you suggesting to add language param to Covered items? But don't forget, that quite often covers may essentially differ (lyrically) from the original, in other words - they hardly may be called as just "the same song, performed in another language". That makes the sense of adding lang param to Covered questionable imo.
Maybe you wanna speak about the third, new template, designed for specific use on works like mentioned Disney etc? --Senvaikis (talk) 22:43, February 28, 2016 (UTC)
Independent of Lichtweber's main problem here, I sometimes felt the need for a template to link different versions of a song by the same artist. Although it can be done by using {{SInfo}} / {{CreditBox}}, it gets clumsy for > 2 versions...
I always liked the way secondhandsongs or MB handle it. What would you think about using one template ({{MultipleVersions}} or sth like that), which would work similar to {{Cover}} (list of numerated songs), but where one could additionally specify a type, for example: adaption, cover, parody, remix, sample, version. So we could get rid of {{Cover}}, {{Parody}}, {{Remix}}, {{Sample}}... and reduce the template clutter on song pages.
The ultimate dream (and I really don't know if it is technically feasible) would be if one would only need to enter the version info on derivative works while I put another template {{ListVersions}} on the main work, which auto/bot? creates a list of the derived works (This song has been adapted by artist, covered by artist2, artist3 and sampled by artist4).
In my opinion that would make it trivial to list performances in different languages by different performers. Cons: It would be a heck of work. Greetings, --Fassbrause (talk) 23:42, February 28, 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, I've thought about a generic Version template several times as well, not for covers or parodies but for the even more esoteric things like {{Studio}}/{{Live}} or indeed {{Simultaneous Release}}.
AFAIK the only way to auto-generate a list of versions would be to create a "Version of SONG" category for each song that got versioned, but the number of these categories could easily go into the six digits (the majority having only one member), so I don't think that's worth it… Better to do occasional maintenance by bot. — 6×9 (Talk) 19:36, March 1, 2016 (UTC)

Bot activity showing in recent changes

Not sure if you're aware of this (maybe you're already fixing it), but today your bot's activity has been flooding the recent changes. Normally your bot's (and Lwt's) edits don't appear in the recent activity. I figure this is just a glitch. XxTimberlakexx (talk) (contribs)22:55, February 29, 2016 (UTC)

Edits to talk pages regarding watcher/cert are intended to be visible, for obvious reasons... --ES (talk) 23:04, February 29, 2016 (UTC)
Oh okay. I was just making sure regardless, because I've never seen the bot's activity in the recent changes, so I wanted to clarify that wasn't an accident. XxTimberlakexx (talk) (contribs)23:40, February 29, 2016 (UTC)


SongHeader and the * symbol

It seems like your bot is having some troubles with certain pages with the * symbol (i.e. 1; 2; 3) and I thought you'd like to know about it. As far as I know, it's sporadic, though it's better to catch something like that earlier... --Ozpl (talk) 17:12, March 1, 2016 (UTC)

Also: [[Contact +1800 385 4895 Outlook technical helpline phone number usa/canada!! get fix outlook issue by remotely third party|this page]]. --Ozpl (talk) 17:13, March 1, 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, I hate it too when copy didn't work & I accidentally paste some older text… Thanks for the notice, but that was actually a problem with the template, not the bot. Some characters like * tend to cause trouble in templates, so they were often replaced with HTML code. I tried to make the new SongHeader (mostly) immune to that, but obviously missed a few bits. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:11, March 1, 2016 (UTC)


Three cheers for whom sorted WC. --ES (talk) 08:06, March 3, 2016 (UTC)

Problem with WikiActivity special page and common.js

Hi there! Two things that bother me:

  • First one is that my Special:WikiActivity page is much smaller than it was for example last week, when it was showing something about ~25-30 edits and now it's only 7. I'm almost sure you're using Monobook and I'm not sure if it's available there, though I thought I'd ask someone with technical knowledge. You know what may be the cause of this? Is it Wikia thing or maybe I missed something in my account's settings?
  • Second is, that I can't edit mine or someone else's common.js - I'm logged out every time I enter such page. For example I'm logged in when I want to edit some song page, but when I go on my common's page, it's like I 'm not having an account. When I try to log from there, nothing changes. I have no idea what it's all about, I'll be glad if you could help. TIA --Ozpl (talk) 14:01, March 8, 2016 (UTC)
#2: Same on my side - logout on every visit of my common.js, without any chances to login from that page. :(
Btw, regarding other users profile/.js/.css editing - it was always disabled (even for admins). --Senvaikis (talk) 14:43, March 8, 2016 (UTC)
The behaviour of Recent Changes has changed (in the past 48 hrs), no matter what I do, I can only get a list only going back 8-9 hours, and no more than 500 items. This in unprecedented. --ES (talk) 17:52, March 8, 2016 (UTC)
#2 is fixed now, it seems! - OneTwoThreeFall talk 06:24, March 9, 2016 (UTC)
Works for me too, so fix worked. And as ES said: there's something wrong with activity page lately, I have the same problem as him.
Unrelated question: as we got new SongHeader template (and as you were thinking about the other day), can I start deleting {{WrongTitle}} from pages and renaming it correctly in {{SongHeader}}, {{ArtistHeader}} or {{AlbumHeader}} due to its redundancy? Or should we discuss it in LW:Community Portal? --Ozpl (talk) 13:23, March 9, 2016 (UTC)
Probably best to discuss it first. — 6×9 (Talk) 19:18, March 14, 2016 (UTC)

OS cleanup

Is there a user script, or does 42 have a function, to remove links from OS that are already listed elsewhere on the page? It looks like Hank Thompson could use such a cleanup, and a script would be useful in my pursuit of OS cleanup. Thanks, ~Bobogoobo (talk) 22:27, March 13, 2016 (UTC)

Not yet, unless in 2 steps (remove all OS & let 42 add the missing ones back). Not much luck with Hank Thompson though: just two redirects, no duplicates. — 6×9 (Talk) 19:18, March 14, 2016 (UTC)
Alright, thanks. Senvaikis already took care of the page, there were over 200 OS yesterday. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 19:44, March 14, 2016 (UTC)
Actually 6s info is not quite right, - I think he's just forgot one our discussion, with a demo of a customButton draft, designed exactly for this task. I've tested this button right now and it seems to be still working... :) --Senvaikis (talk) 21:09, March 14, 2016 (UTC)
Looks like a very useful suite of tools, thanks :) ~Bobogoobo (talk) 21:31, March 14, 2016 (UTC)


Hello. I want to start off by sayong that music dominated my life and I kbow a lot about different songs and their lyrics. I think this Wikia can be even better than it is now, and I have a lot of Wikia experience. I would like to become an admin so I can help this Wikia reach its full potential. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pleaser (talkcontribs).

@Pleaser: Please sign your messages using four symbols "~" (or click special button Button sig, titled "Your signature with timestamp", available on edit window toolbar). Thanks., --Senvaikis (talk) 08:26, March 15, 2016 (UTC)
See this brand new FAQ entry. — 6×9 (Talk) 12:00, March 15, 2016 (UTC)

O**icially Sanitized Song Titles

If a song is officially only released with ** substitutions, will the page name and be kept like so, or would either be changed to reflect the real en title? tia. --ES (talk) 18:45, March 19, 2016 (UTC)

I'm for the real, i.e. un"sanitised", version 2 b kept. Anything in our docs 4 that?  · Lichtweber talk service  20:12, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
I don't want too many exceptions to our "albumcover = reference" rule. Unless it's clear that censoring was not the artist's intention (i.e. title is spelt normally elsewhere by the artist), I'd keep the **ed version. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:49, March 20, 2016 (UTC)
Well I've found two instances of officially F**k (ed) (per mb) song titles so far. I thought If we keep the PN like so, and at least change SH.s to reflect how ppl speak, but guess not. --ES (talk) 09:03, March 20, 2016 (UTC)


Hello 6 times 9,
I changed Maraaya:Here For You and realized that said template causes a redirect due to different formats in the template and ESC articles (newer contests = different format; with more details like year and location). Would it be better to use the same format for all years (articles) and change the template (+in this case move/rename the older ESCs from '56-'60 + '87) or should a new (second) template for later contests be created? What do you think, please let me know (or who/where to ask) ... I didn't wanted to write on the template's talk page where noone ever sees it and was not sure if the Community/help pages were the right place. (oder Deutsch zu schreiben) Thanks in advance :) Brikes (talk) 02:41, March 20, 2016 (UTC)

I've fixed the template to use the different link format for years > 1987; please let me know if you find a page where the link doesn't work. (The few random pages I checked were OK.) — 6×9 (Talk) 08:58, March 20, 2016 (UTC)


Colon in Album Titles

Have there been any changes lately? I've been trying to create a page for a compilation Putumayo Presents: Gypsy Groove (2007) adding a white space after the colon. It seems that the part before the colon is interpreted as an artist. I thought the white space would prevent such behaviour? Same behaviour in SongHeader for not yet exisiting compilation on Gipsy.Cz:Jednou: Part before colon is cut off.  · Lichtweber talk service  18:50, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

  1. No changes, it's always been that way. Magic words don't care about whitespace. Pagenames deviating from standard schemes have always been problematic.
  2. No magic words, but same principle: template has to guess, since target doesn't exist. Link still works though, and fixing the display wasn't worth the added complexity. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:27, April 3, 2016 (UTC)
OK, danke. Is it admissible to substitute the colon with html code in SH to ensure correct display?  · Lichtweber talk service  20:41, April 3, 2016 (UTC)
Considering that the display problem is only temporary (until album is created), but the html code could stay for ages if you forget to switch it back, I don't think that would be a good idea. Plus, it would be yet another item to add to our help pages. — 6×9 (Talk) 06:49, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Use common CSS?

I see you've done a bit of CSS tidying! Might it be worth making a request for Common.css to work in both Monobook and Wikia skins (per here) to save on the duplication with Wikia.css? - OneTwoThreeFall talk 11:45, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

I think that would be a good idea – we could probably remove > 90% of the code from wikia.css.
On an unrelated note, what do you think about this? Moving icons into the header with js instead of css… Only got it to work after deleting common.js, something in there probably caused an exception in jquery, preventing following code from being executed. I'm sure you can improve it! — 6×9 (Talk) 13:13, April 9, 2016 (UTC)
It'll take a bit of work to sort out what's needed for one skin and what's needed for both, but I think it would be worth it.
That seems like a nice alternative! Chaining it all together (like $("#header-icons").appendTo("#WikiaPageHeader").css( … ); ) would save a second DOM look-up. Also, shouldn't need to check if #header-icons or #WikiaPageHeader exist first, since if either one doesn't exist, nothing will happen. Your common.js stopped it working due to 'mw.toolbar' being undefined on non-edit pages, most likely. - OneTwoThreeFall talk 17:59, April 9, 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure which icons this is referring to, but generally speaking, it's highly preferable to use CSS rather than JS where possible. I definitely know how much easier it is in JS though, and if it makes it less hacky and such then that's good. Also, just a couple general tips, you don't need the "> 0" when checking length, and you can pass an object to $(...).css() instead of doing multiple calls. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 00:08, April 10, 2016 (UTC)
Thank you both! It's about the star, language & certified icons in {{SongHeader}} – they take up precious space by pushing the rest of the page down. I agree wholeheartedly about preferring css. In monobook it can be done that way (which is why I'd put the js code in wikia.js rather than common.js), but the wikia skin has "overflow:hidden" so the icons disappear when you move them outside the #WikiaArticle div. — 6×9 (Talk) 06:37, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

Would you consider moving the div.tally size reductions to your personal CSS? It makes the Wikia interface strange and inconsistent, and I'd rather not have to duplicate the Wikia CSS in my personal in case it changes later. Up to you though. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 00:18, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

done6×9 (Talk) 06:37, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

done - I sent a request to Wikia, and Common.css is now being used in both skins. I've removed duplicate styles and reorganised based on whether code was in both Common.css and Wikia.css. A fair amount of what's left is probably unused/out-of-date, but I haven't removed anything, just in case… - OneTwoThreeFall talk 07:12, May 12, 2016 (UTC)

Well Done! and thanks for taking care of it! — 6×9 (Talk) 07:56, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

MultipleLanguages bug

There seems to be a bug with {{MultipleLanguages}} on pages like Jodi Benson:Part Of Your World. It doesn't seem to recognize the specified artist name, not sure what's causing the other problems. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 01:40, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

See above – the ML template was never designed for versions by different artists. Also, the parameter is "artist" not "Artist", but even then half the links don't work…6×9 (Talk) 06:49, April 10, 2016 (UTC)
Ah, I see. So would it be preferable to change them to use Cover/Covered, or do you think it would be worthwhile to pursue creating a new template for such cases? The discussion above doesn't seem to have reached any consensus. Thanks, ~Bobogoobo (talk) 21:37, April 10, 2016 (UTC)
AFAICT this mostly affects soundtracks, so maybe we could make something like tl:SoundtrackLanguages, and maybe extend its use to album pages.
Unrelated, but this is a brilliant idea. I'd never thought of using dpl for these things. Well Done!6×9 (Talk) 17:09, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
That sounds good. Do we need a Community Portal discussion for collaborating and such?
Thanks, glad you like it. Maybe I should make a prioritized list of my DPLs so the most important stuff can get done first.
I see the fLetter run ongoing, good stuff! One minor thing I noticed is that on pages like Binocular:You, where the album was in the SongFooter but wasn't in Song when it was replaced, the album gets removed instead of moved to the SongHeader. Is that something you could change?
Cheers, ~Bobogoobo (talk) 22:30, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
Definitely CP or admin portal discussion before final implementation, but we can create a working example first.
Album: in theory sf.album should have only the title, not the year, so I hadn't bothered to check because most of the time I wouldn't get a working link anyway. Might be better to run a script across albumless songs to find albums in their backlinks. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:46, April 12, 2016 (UTC)
Sounds good. I'll try to make a prototype this week if you aren't working on it already.
Ah, makes sense. I love the backlinks idea, would save a lot of work. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 20:56, April 12, 2016 (UTC)

Opinion wanted

May I ask you to take a look at #3 in the bottom of this discussion (and leave your opinion, desirable)?
tia, --Senvaikis (talk) 06:54, April 12, 2016 (UTC)

Bot problem?

Was this user a bot that went haywire or something? Most of its edits were duplicating the Other Songs section. However, it seems there were several unhappy anons on the wiki today, so it could be some sort of vandalism. Thanks. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 03:10, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

Looks like Janitor, from the edit summary and the inability to deal with the split template. It got blocked for the latter reason, but lately Wikia seems to have session trouble – my bot also crashed a few times because it was told it wasn't logged in (and some of its edits appeared as IPs). — 6×9 (Talk) 05:10, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

Speaking of bot problems, an account called "UserBot" seems to have forgotten to include special characters in page titles: example, but its contributions page is blank. Is there another place I could find a list of its edits? ~Bobogoobo (talk) 02:23, April 22, 2016 (UTC)

That was a script (probably run server-side, hence the missing contribs) which imported lyrics from LyricFind (at the time a requirement of our licensing deal). Many were eventually deleted (if they already existed in the main namespace, or if no reliable info on the artist could be found), the rest were moved by my bot. So I suppose you could go through its move log and check for "lf 2 main", but be warned that the number of pages is probably in the six digits. — 6×9 (Talk) 16:27, April 22, 2016 (UTC)
Interestingly, the usercontribs API works even though the 'users' query doesn't recognize the user. Guess I can use that sometime to look for dupes or misnames. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 00:59, April 23, 2016 (UTC)
Although actually I see plenty of accents in there, so maybe it was a limited problem on the source site and this wouldn't be very productive as opposed to the usual methods. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 01:01, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

Hashtag titles

Should titles representing a hashtag be formatted like Superwoman:(Hashtag)LEH or like Tuuttimörkö X Kube:Hashtag PÄIVI? Asking since you moved the former page, but I created a link like the latter here. I could only find three songs with "hashtag" in the title, two of them by Superwoman, but there could be others that have "Number" instead of "Hashtag", like Bo Burnham:Number Deep. Thanks, ~Bobogoobo (talk) 00:49, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

LW:PN says "in the case with albums or songs that start with a Twitter hashtag, the number part should be removed completely since it doesn't refer to a number". I guess when moving the page I didn't check for the actual song title, just removed the space after the colon. But now I'm wondering whether it wouldn't be better to keep "Hashtag "… that seems to be the convention in spoken language as well, so maybe LWPN should reflect that.
Note that the API, when normalising song titles, always converts "#" to "Number " (as well as UPPER CASE to Title Case), so it's usually a good idea to create redirects where it expects the pages to be. — 6×9 (Talk) 15:37, April 26, 2016 (UTC)
I'd vote to keep it; maintaining the spoken pronunciation whenever possible seems preferable. Understood; are there any other particular cases that should always have redirects? ~Bobogoobo (talk) 21:28, April 26, 2016 (UTC)
Actually, it doesn't seem to do that anymore… [5] leads to Foo:BAR. It's also wildly inconsistent: getSong correctly replaces < and >, while #sterilizeTitle converts < but not >. Neither care about inicaps or square and curly brackets. Guess it's not really worth bothering with. I'm not even sure anymore whether I just imagined that… — 6×9 (Talk) 17:11, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
Here's another example. Someone tried to create it with the # starting the title, which didn't work for obvious reasons. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 01:33, April 29, 2016 (UTC)

IdentityNumber_1 ... any destination suggestions? --ES (talk) 02:49, May 7, 2016 (UTC)

The missing space before # might be pure stylisation/formatting… I'd go with "Identity Number 1" for pagename and "Identity #1" for artist param (the first permanently, the latter until myspace or official site appear to prove us otherwise).
I'm also against using DISPLAYTITLE except for equivalent titles, so we don't have to deal with additional red links and ltrs as a result of c&p. But this should be discussed with the other admins first (and maybe turned into a policy). — 6×9 (Talk) 15:48, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
Agreed, I think DISPLAYTITLE is rarely if ever necessary. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 21:59, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks guys. --ES (talk) 04:02, May 9, 2016 (UTC)

One-Hit Wonders category

You removed Category:One-Hit Wonders from some pages for being a manual category, but it looks like every page in the category has it manually added. (Also, it says "These artists" but it's mostly songs. Or in some cases, both the artist and the song.) I don't think it deserves a badge though, since it's rather subjective (and, as pointed out in the discussions about it, potentially counter-intuitive). ~Bobogoobo (talk) 00:55, May 7, 2016 (UTC)

I don't mean to be impertinent, but on further inspection I think it might be better to have a list of pages with manual categories rather than removing them automatically, if possible. There are more manual-only cats, cats that need to be addressed by adding a proper template on that page, and cats that are missing from the correct place. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 02:01, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
The ones I handled automatically were Genre, Language, Label and Hometown (not sure going through them manually would be worth the hassle, most probably only duplicate information). "Essential" & similar cats I removed because that's one more step to turning us into a discography site. Cover & Parody cats without proper template are of little informational use, though it might be possible to use dpl to find those without the proper template.
I'm currently getting a list of all ns=0 pages with manual cats, then we can decide which ones need human intervention, which ones we'll allow and which ones should be removed entirely or converted into lists. One-Hit Wonders is one I'd remove entirely (not clearly defined, OHWs in the US might be huge elsewhere, etc.), Top 40 Hits is another (we already have No.1 and B-Hits). — 6×9 (Talk) 16:04, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
Sounds good. Not sure about using DPL for cover/parody if it isn't already linked from the source, it's not really used for page text search. I could definitely do an intersection of Genre subcats with albums missing genre, or other similar issues. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 21:59, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
Fortunately, DPL is pretty good at finding templates:
  category = Parodies
  notuses = Template:Parody
(Two pages & two categories… Erste Allgemeine Verunsicherung:Es Wird Heller apparently isn't a parody of a particular song, but of André Heller's style. We could either add a style parameter to {{Parody}}, possibly with a subcat, or put a note in the CreditBox and leave it uncategorized.) — 6×9 (Talk) 09:59, May 8, 2016 (UTC)

Brief task for your bot

ES recently batchmoved Andrew Jackson Jihad to AJJ. The album links on the song pages are still under the Andrew Jackson Jihad redirects. I figure this is a task best handled by bot (same with the artist links on the song pages, but ES did that already) so I came to you. Hope you don't mind.
TIA, XxTimberlakexx (talk) (contribs)21:47, May 8, 2016 (UTC)

done but… why was this batchmoved in the first place? All albumcovers say "Andrew Jackson Jihad". — 6×9 (Talk) 16:08, May 9, 2016 (UTC)
See AJJ (band) Wikipedia16. If you have a better suggestion, we have many cases like this and variations thereof (multiple aliases, past and concurrent, see Laveerre, titles). --ES (talk) 20:58, May 9, 2016 (UTC)
You can read their statement on their official site, but to sum it up, they changed their name to AJJ because they found their original name to be disrespectful and irresponsible. In cases like these, we should adhere to what a band wants instead of keeping an old name they don't want to associate themselves with. ES is right, though, this is done a number of ways. For example, there's a number of bands here that changed their name that haven't been batchmoved but solely had the artist parameter updated with any releases after the name change under that alias (e.g. JR JR, Fake Shark, Versa) and then there's some where the new name has its own page (e.g. The Morning Benders/POP ETC). I just think it's most important in this case to batchmove to their new name because the band's hatred toward the old name was made clear.
So far they only have one release under AJJ, but they'll most likely release a full album under the name soon. XxTimberlakexx (talk) (contribs)01:04, May 10, 2016 (UTC)
I thought LWPN was pretty clear on this? Multiple aliases get one artist page, but albums/songs get the the alias under which they were released as prefix. So using "AJJ:" for the new albums is OK, but the titles released under the old alias shouldn't have been moved. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:12, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Another bit related to Feat

Well, {{feat}} is a smash hit! Now we have pages using "with [[artist]]" that need to be updated with the template. tia --ES (talk) 23:33, May 11, 2016 (UTC)

Not sure how well a bot could handle this – simple for above case, but "with" might be followed by a list of artists (linked or unlinked, with any number of separators), you might have more than one song link per line… — 6×9 (Talk) 08:17, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Spam Filter

Try moving We Are... to where it should rightly be..., is this worth contacting wikia staff about? We do have pages with the offending word spelled out... tia --ES (talk) 04:26, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Pages ending with / are blocked as well. Bot tries to create Category:Songs by MF/MB/ and Category:Songs by Faggot Bruce every week and is denied each time. Haven't bothered contacting them for this since it's a cosmetic thing. Song pages are a different matter though, users will have to go through artist/album page because they wouldn't know to look for the *-ed pagename. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:08, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
I think it's worth contacting them about. As mentioned, the same words are used in other page titles and in lyrics. We're a lyrics site and people tend to use those words in songs, so there's not much point in blocking them. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 01:27, May 15, 2016 (UTC)

Uncategorized Album Types

Please see Knebworth (1990)...Any album that has a non categorized album type ends up in the album cat, is that really desired?
Box Set, "Compilation album" "Tribute album" "Remix Compilation" etc. are problematic. Knebworth rightly belongs in Comp albs, or Live comp albums (if such a cat existed), but it was in alb cat with "live comp".
I think I mentioned this last year with regards to Box sets not being findable (no cat exists)... more at User:Bobogoobo/DPL/Format#Album --ES (talk) 11:58, May 15, 2016 (UTC)

Categorising by ah.type isn't a good idea, unless you want to restrict it to a dozen or so. Might be better to remove C:C entirely and do Albums by VA instead (makes sense anyway, since we already have that for songs). — 6×9 (Talk) 08:48, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
Sounds good. So all VA albs would be in C:VAA...and subcated by ah.type, right? cheers --ES (talk) 09:11, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
Categorising by ah.type isn't a good idea, unless you want to restrict it to a dozen or so. — 6×9 (Talk) 09:13, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
Yeah I saw that lol, So if some poor slob wants to find all Mixtapes etc. "that's not a good idea" is the answer or tell them to run a bot? --ES (talk) 09:31, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
Is finding all mixtapes important enough to end up with hundreds of type categories? — 6×9 (Talk) 09:35, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
The categorizing by ah.type itself will allow us to weed out the silly types, Mixtape EP, Live EP and some others that I saw recently. After clean up we will end up with maybe a dozen (if that many) useful ones. And any absurd types can be found and fixed, if categorizing is implemented. If somebody has entered Chanson compilation or Schlager EP or g*d knows what else, would be nice to have a non botted way of dealing with them, then go have a beer! --ES (talk) 09:46, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
So is a live EP a live album or an EP? And why is it a problem? The only problem with "Chanson compilation" would be that its first half is redundant (genre=Chanson). Who gets to decide what's silly and what isn't? — 6×9 (Talk) 10:42, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
Wouldn't "Live" handle all Live releases? Else if the intent is that any text can be inserted in ah type...--ES (talk) 11:06, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
That is (and always was) the intent, yes. — 6×9 (Talk) 11:27, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Fitter Happier

Hello, I am curious why you reverted the edits on Fitter Happier if the formatting added was from the liner notes, as the guest editor wrote? Why not just delete that note? (And sorry, I've never written on someone's talk page before so I'm not really sure where to put this.) Andersol (talk) 18:06, May 29, 2016 (UTC)

The main problem I can see was that your edits removed all stanzas from the lyrics, and started some lines with lowercase, both being big no-go's for LW (ampersands/& in lyrics are also unwanted). Secondly, the page has been certified gold, meaning its lyrics have been checked and formatted correctly. Any major changes should be discussed on the page's talk page beforehand. - Patzilla777 (talk - contributions) 18:17, May 29, 2016 (UTC)
They were not my edits, but I have been wondering for myself about how much of the artist's own formatting (from the liner notes) to include when transcribing lyrics. Is the artist's formatting not considered important at all? I have been trying to include it as much as possible except for when it does not match the sung lyrics. Or can it be formatted as written in the liner notes as long as 1) the first letter of each line is changed to uppercase (as necessary), 2) there are no ampersands, and 3) there are stanzas? And speaking of stanzas, I'm not sure how to determine the stanzas in this track. Are they really always necessary, even for tracks that are just spoken, like this one? The gold-certified thing makes sense, thanks for clarifying. Andersol (talk) 18:47, May 29, 2016 (UTC)
The writer's formatting should definitely be taken into consideration, but the important thing is readability. In my opinion, the formatting you provided from the liner notes is far more difficult to read than the formatting already on the page. The stanzas provided break up the lyrics enough to read easier.
If you did follow the things mentioned before with your edits, then maybe it could be formatted like that (however the brackets should probably be changed as brackets in lyrics usually refer to backing vocals). - Patzilla777 (talk - contributions) 10:02, May 30, 2016 (UTC)
Agree with Pat, readability has higher priority than artistic intent. "Fitter Happier" is an awkward case: there are no natural points for inserting blank lines, and the placement of line breaks is rather arbitrary – but putting each phrase on its own line would lead to very many very short lines (too much scrolling for the user). The way it's currently laid out seems like a good compromise. — 6×9 (Talk) 19:32, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

Linus Of Hollywood "Why Don't We" in "Other Songs"

Hey, the bot brought the song back after I deleted it. It's a duplication of "Why Don't We..." on the "Let Yourself Be Happy" album and needs to be merged or deleted or something. LightningMan711 (talk) 05:21, May 31, 2016 (UTC)

Because the page still existed. You need to redirect the duplicate page to the correct page before removing it from the artist page, otherwise the bot will just keep re-adding it. See this page on how to redirect duplicate pages yourself. - Patzilla777 (talk - contributions) 09:46, May 31, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. Still learning my way around. LightningMan711 (talk) 14:43, June 3, 2016 (UTC)


Christof Stählin:Das Dampfklavier

Hi 6x9. I'm uncertain what to do with this song. I would like to create an albumpage for the EP where it is from - but: I couldn't find out the date of release (must be between 1965 and 1970) and the only picture available in the internet has a watermark, so I can't use it here. So, what would you recomend to do? --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 18:30, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

I think the date can be narrowed down to '65 or '66 (maybe '67) – catalog# is 30, according to discogs #24 was released in '65, while in '70 they were already into the three digits. I'd use 1966 and leave a comment that it's only a guess.
Cover: less than ideal, but until a better scan comes along, I'd use it – still recognisable despite signing and watermark.
The real question is whether there's a chance we'll get the lyrics for any of the other three tracks. If they're doomed to stay red links, I'd rather refrain from creating an album page. You can list it under a heading like "Songs on Singles and EPs" and add a comment like "(on Vier Chansons, ca. 1966)". — 6×9 (Talk) 08:48, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. I'll do it as you said and if I find the lyrics for at least one more song I'll add the album. --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 18:29, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

Odd Behavious, SH or page?

If you comapre the sh alb in I Like the Fright & (She's in Love) With Her Radio, one has the redundant album artist displayed... --ES (talk) 09:43, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

done: Reason - extra space in artist name --Senvaikis (talk) 10:18, June 9, 2016 (UTC)
Thx – I'd probably have gone cross-eyed before noticing that… — 6×9 (Talk) 10:53, June 10, 2016 (UTC)

Lani Hall:Love Song

I wanted to insert the correct album title, but ... (I did'n know that there are still blocked songlyrics) --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 22:07, June 13, 2016 (UTC)

done --ES (talk) 22:14, June 13, 2016 (UTC)


Taking me out of cats

See here You took me out of Category:Users with email enabled and Category:Users who are nocturnal. You may want to check and see if you did this for other users as well. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 22:14, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

These categories are added automatically when you put {{Userboxes/Nocturnal}} and {{Userboxes/Email}} on your userpage. They should not be added manually. — 6×9 (Talk) 05:46, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Vimeo' ?

Hi, 6

What would you say about making {{Vimeo}} pagetype-sensitive, enabling such way its usage on artist pages too?
(Current version, used on artist page, attributes it to Category:Vimeo/Song).
--Senvaikis (talk) 09:10, July 8, 2016 (UTC)
done Good catch! — 6×9 (Talk) 09:23, July 9, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, --Senvaikis (talk) 11:38, July 9, 2016 (UTC)

Sérgio Mendes

Why does 00101010 add songs as "Other Songs", that are already there? (track 6 & 13)

And not for the first time! --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 05:36, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

There are two spaces before the first opening parenthesis in each one in the album listing. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 05:46, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
Oh, thanks! Hard to see. Thank you for fixing it, Senv! --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 10:51, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

Glenn Medeiros

You change the name of Glenn Medeiros:Un Roman D'Amitié (Friend You Give Me A Reason). This is a duet, not Glenn Medeiros featuring Elsa. Is a duet as marketed in the single Discogs. Can you change back to the title Gleen Medeiros & Elsa:Un Roman D'Amitié (Friend You Give Me A Reason). Wikipedia. Songsbr (talk) 03:44, July 27, 2016 (UTC)

done though I'm not sure whether the single was released before or after GM's 2nd album on which the song also appeared. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:00, July 27, 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. Seems this song was released in july and the album charted in 08.10.1988 in uk (not the best source~) but i guess the song was released before, it's what it seems. Songsbr (talk) 18:21, July 27, 2016 (UTC)

Petula Clark:Downtow/de -> Petula Clark:Downtown (German)

Why? --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 20:44, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

/de implies it's a translation (it is not), (German) means it was released in de as well as en. --ES (talk) 21:27, July 31, 2016 (UTC)
Got it --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 21:30, July 31, 2016 (UTC)


Invisible characters

From this move, I found that there are 20 pages that use the same invisible character:

namespace = 0
titlematch = %–%
mode = ordered

Per this question, it seems this is a control character that looks like a hyphen (except when rendered in HTML) and shouldn't be used. Wanted to make that is accurate and was wondering if you would be able to find any other invisible characters or ones that shouldn't be used in page titles. Thanks, ~Bobogoobo (talk) 23:25, August 1, 2016 (UTC)

done I wrote a script a while ago to replace various undesired characters, but that one had escaped me so far. — 6×9 (Talk) 17:05, August 2, 2016 (UTC)
Cool, thanks! Well Done! ~Bobogoobo (talk) 23:01, August 2, 2016 (UTC)
Found another one that hadn't been dealt with before: [6] ~Bobogoobo (talk) 01:42, October 10, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! I've extended the script to try and repair mangled accents, and remove any remaining unicode control characters. — 6×9 (Talk) 09:01, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

Fernando Pereira Disambiguation

Hi Six, could you please create a disambiguation page for the Brazilian and the Portuguese Wikipedia16 Fernando Pereira. --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 15:14, August 20, 2016 (UTC)

done hopefully he's frying bigger fish --ES (talk) 15:31, August 20, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 15:42, August 20, 2016 (UTC)

Non listed Songs

@ Neil Norman, not in OS, weird. --ES (talk) 23:34, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

All others are prob. listed on the 5 albums. (I originally added all unlisted (on artist page) songs to OS, but got complaints.) — 6×9 (Talk) 05:59, August 27, 2016 (UTC)
Well songs are supposed to be listed on the artist page, either in OS or within album listings, no? this artist has neither. And one wonders how many other cases like this one exists... --ES (talk) 06:05, August 27, 2016 (UTC)
I think so too (more userfriendly), but not everyone agrees. — 6×9 (Talk) 06:23, August 27, 2016 (UTC)
So when will the arrangement applied to Neil's page be applied to the rest of the site? or when will we see pages like his be populated with album listings? I guess we'll have to wait for Senv to chime in... --ES (talk) 07:11, August 27, 2016 (UTC)



In response to the automated message left on my talkpage, I have no intention of making any further edits on this wiki. Please feel free to remove me as a watcher on any pages and downgrade as necessary. ProfessorTofty (talk) 01:56, September 3, 2016 (UTC)

TV series

I tried to adjust Template:TV Series per this discussion (under "We Are One (2016)"). It works for one parameter, but not for multiple. I haven't worked with variables much before - I didn't think they were scoped, but that's the first thing that comes to mind for why the change I made wouldn't work. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, ~Bobogoobo (talk) 01:45, September 30, 2016 (UTC)

A tough one! Just found out by accident while trying a different approach (after making sure variables aren't scoped) – Mediawiki can't handle variables, expressions etc. as parameter names unless you separate the expression from the param's 3 closing brackets by a pipe (though a space should do the trick as well). — 6×9 (Talk) 15:13, September 30, 2016 (UTC)
Interesting, another shortcoming of the parser. Thanks for the fix! ~Bobogoobo (talk) 22:10, September 30, 2016 (UTC)



Special:Diff/27056545 seems inconsistent with most album listings. Shouldn't that kind of unlinking only happen on artist and song pages? ~Bobogoobo (talk) 02:08, October 25, 2016 (UTC)

It should – mostly. Or maybe just on VA albums? Not entirely sure how to deal with cases like this one. Better to err on the side of caution, I guess.
I was planning to go through the log anyway; there are a few more cases like the one you noted. It's a work in progress. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:54, October 25, 2016 (UTC)

Magnapop deletions

Please restore You deleted some thing which weren't redundant. There's no reason to delete these anyway--someone may have an EP and want to see the lyrics of just that release. Why delete this info? -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 21:33, October 26, 2016 (UTC)

Which of them weren't redundant? Because I checked all song pages, and all had backlinks from other albums. — 6×9 (Talk) 15:18, October 27, 2016 (UTC)
Deletions Do we have a policy on deleting presumably redundant releases? -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 21:18, October 29, 2016 (UTC)
One quick method of redundancy detection is: If a release is deleted and bot (binary 42) doesn't add any new tracks to the OS section, the release was redundant (meaning: All tracks on the deleted release are listed on artist page).So Magnapop deletions were justified, per artist page history.

Your definition of non-redundant release: someone may have an EP and want to see the lyrics of just that release has very serious consequences for the site, all published albums forever will be non redundant. --ES (talk) 00:34, October 30, 2016 (UTC)


Small Town Records Compilation 2009 (2009)

Hi there. I noticed that you recently deleted the page Small Town Records Compilation 2009 (2009) with the reason "no evidence this exists". Admittedly the album is very obscure. It's part of the annual compilation series put out by Duke University's student-run record label, and student turnover means that websites and historical records in general haven't been kept up. But it is a real album. I have a copy, so I took some photos. Here they are. I also found a passing reference to the album through the Internet Wayback Machine here. Unfortunately there is no picture of the album art on the page, and the iTunes U link is probably defunct, but it demonstrates that Small Town Records did put out a compilation album in 2009. I would also send you the music itself, but I am not sure I have the legal right to redistribute it. In any case, if you could restore the page and the songs you deleted, I would really appreciate it. FactoidCow (talk) 01:55, November 1, 2016 (UTC)

The only two blue songs on the release are already listed on other albums, so STRC (2009) is redundant, with or without evidence. --ES (talk) 02:26, November 1, 2016 (UTC)
Additionally, I don't see much benefit in having a page for a compilation that was probably only circulated locally in small quantities and hasn't been available for years. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:57, November 1, 2016 (UTC)
There were songs on the release that did not appear on other albums. These were deleted by 6×9 at the same time as the album itself, also with the reason "no evidence this exists". These include Soulless Dogs Blues Band:Philosopher King and Lauren Robinson:If You Reach Me. If the songs cannot be restored automatically, I will gladly re-add them manually. FactoidCow (talk) 13:22, November 1, 2016 (UTC)
See my point above (which you removed for some reason) – the same is true for songs that were only ever released on such a compilation. — 6×9 (Talk) 13:48, November 1, 2016 (UTC)
I guess I somehow highlighted and removed your comment by accident while I was opening the page? Because I distinctly remember not seeing it, and being confused as to why EchoSierra's comment had a double-indent instead of a single-indent when there was nothing above it. I do apologize.
As for the meat of your comment: I tend towards the opposite perspective. If the album exists, why not have information on it? If we don't acknowledge its existence, who will? The front page says "lyrics for any song by any artist"...are we here to judge which artists are notable and which are not, or are we here to preserve and make available as much information as we can? FactoidCow (talk) 22:49, November 1, 2016 (UTC)
My double indent was on purpose. Albums are required for listing of songs, whose lyrics are the reason for lw's existence. To make the album a valid one so we may keep a page for it (depends on unique lyrics to the album), I'd recommend registering it at musicbrainz and discogs so album's credentials becomes public (like verified albums at discogs from the era of vacuum tubes no offense to 00101010). Since it is a compilation whose songs may have appeared on many other releases (comp or otherwise) it will only be kept if it has a song (+lyrics) not already listed elsewhere.
Please note that any artist/album/song that only appears @lw and lacks any refs to external sites is considered suspicious and will eventually be deleted from site. Similarly any album that only duplicates existing songs on other albums.
So transcribing lyrics of the deleted red songs and publicizing the album at the ref sites might be worth your careful consideration (sans haphazard editing). hth --ES (talk) 23:29, November 1, 2016 (UTC)
P.S. The front page says "lyrics for any song by any artist", and it was pointed out that the only two valid lyrics on the album are still here...
I don't quite understand your P.S. Did I not make it clear above that transcribed lyrics got deleted along with the album? Or are you saying that those lyrics were "invalid" because the album itself was "invalid"? But that's all beside the point. I will take your advice on the Musicbrainz/Discogs thing. FactoidCow (talk) 01:46, November 2, 2016 (UTC)
The deleted lyrics don't have a valid release attached... see above... or you may want to consider AllMusic i Loose Cannonry (2008), note the change of artist title... --ES (talk) 02:23, November 2, 2016 (UTC)



What do think about creating a "SoundCloud" link? [7] --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 17:43, December 7, 2016 (UTC)

{{SoundCloud}} – though, if they're really getting as big as Spotify, we should add a parameter to the footer templates. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:31, December 7, 2016 (UTC)
Ah, OK --Ignor-the-ant (talk) 20:41, December 7, 2016 (UTC)



just would like to know. i have created a page with track lists, was trying to upload the album cover but failed. now the page has been deleted?!

please clarify.

thanks. --[ballad of the fallen angel] (talk) 04:45, December 23, 2016 (UTC)

Without knowing which particular page you mean, I can only assume the reason is the same that Senvaikis already gave you on his talk page. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:30, December 23, 2016 (UTC)
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