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Mannheim Steamroller:Christmas Celebration (2004)

This page has been deleted. The deletion and move log for the page are provided below for reference.

10:32, December 25, 2012 6 times 9 (Talk | contribs) deleted page Mannheim Steamroller:Christmas Celebration (2004) (Broken redirect)
18:22, December 24, 2012 XxTimberlakexx (Talk | contribs) moved page Mannheim Steamroller:Christmas Celebration (2004) to Mannheim Steamroller:Mannheim Steamroller Christmas Celebration (2004

I was looking at the pages I've created and following, and I noticed to red links in my list. Both of them were Mannhemim Steamroller:Christmas Celebration (2004) links. If I understand everything correctly, it looks like what happened was XxTimberlakexx thought that the page I created should be Mannhemim Steamroller:Mannhemim Steamroller: Christmas Celebration (2004) instead of the page name that I gave it (Mannhemim Steamroller:Christmas Celebration (2004)). So he redirected my page to his new one. However, since he added in the extra colon, it made the redirect break. Therefore, both pages were deleted.

Is that correct? Or were the pages deleted for another reason?

I'm just wondering. If this is what happened, and it's all a mistake, then can I recreate the page? And if I do recreate the page, which name should I use? Mannheim Steamroller:Christmas Celebration (2004) (what I thought it should be) or Mannheim Steamroller:Mannheim Steamroller: Christmas Celebration (2004)?

I also would like to add Christmas Celebration back on the Mannhemim Steamroller main page. Perhaps I never put it there in the first place, or perhaps all references to Christmas Celebration were deleted?

Please let me know what I should do. Thanks.--Arwen4CJ (talk) 12:59, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

Looks like Senvaikis already took care of restoring things – thanks, Senv!
As far as I can tell, you did everything correctly. I don't know why xxTimberlakexx moved or deleted the page; I wasn't aware of this when I cleaned up the broken redirects. (Guess I should have checked!) I hope this didn't put a damper on your Christmas spirit! — 6×9 (Talk) 15:20, January 6, 2013 (UTC)
Thank you :) It didn't affect my Christmas at all. I was just confused. I'm glad that it's all cleared up now. --Arwen4CJ (talk) 16:00, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

Manu Chao - Bong Bong.jpg

Could you rename "File:Manu Chao - Bong Bong.jpg" to "Manu Chao - Bongo Bong.jpg"? Thanks User22 (talk) 21:32, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

done6×9 (Talk) 05:28, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Ariana Grande Album

Hey! My name's Matt, and I love music. I saw you were an admin, and I have a question. Ariana Grande is working on an album, but Republic Records is taking forever to finish it. I thought you should know this. The title of the album will be Daydreamin', with Daydreamin' as the title track. All the songs aren't released, neither is any album artwork. But should we do an album page? I added Voodoo Love, Daydreamin', and Pink Champagne songs that are all confirmed songs on her album. More information is here. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by ArianatorBeingOkay&Ready (talkcontribs).

Hi Matt,
if album title and year of release are known, and especially if some of the song pages already exists, it's okay to create the album page.
PS. Please sign your messages by adding ~~~~. Thanks! — 6×9 (Talk) 17:43, January 10, 2013 (UTC)
The album title is Daydreamin', and the year of release will most likely be 2013, but Republic Records is taking forever to release it. Also, Voodoo Love and Daydreamin' were not released officially, she released them in a recent livechat, against Republic Record's will. (XDD) She has a bunch of covers out, as well, but I am not sure if I should create a page for those. Me be Matt.
If the cover versions are recorded and available, they can get their own song pages. You can use the {{Cover}} template to link to the original. (See Category:Covers for examples.) — 6×9 (Talk) 08:55, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
Kay. Another song, Boyfriend Material was just leaked, but I'm not sure if I should add it. {{SUBST:MattsSig}}


Hi 6,
Can you please check if I missed (or went overboard with) anything at Dragon (Disambiguation) and it's offshoots? cheers ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 11:26, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Look who's back! :-) The NZ dragon appears to be the major-est by some margin (no. of releases, lifespan) so I've moved it to Dragon as per LW:PN#Artist Pages. Other than that it looks good. — 6×9 (Talk) 11:51, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
Wow, lost for almost 3.5 years, now back out of the blue... Welcome back! - Chris 22:08, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
Lost? Me? When I left there were over 30,000 artists without a Country, and it's gotten worse. I'll find them!
(hopefully my sig won't get lost again) Where is Red when I need her? -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 18:31, January 16, 2013 (UTC)
Don't be so strict, ES - some categories now are in unbelievable tidiness now, compared to those days :). What we've really lost, and I miss it too, is that joyful Red's days atmosphere... Please tell her to follow you and return here, when you find her :) --Senvaikis (talk) 19:08, January 16, 2013 (UTC)
While I have everybody's attention (where did 6 go?)... how can I find the intersection of 2 or more categories? (I wonder Red leaving had something to do with this guy) Senv please don't tease! Short of following LWT, how do I find them Tidy cats? -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 04:08, January 18, 2013 (UTC)
I see now, it's on your user page...well done (so far)! Naturally there'd be no reason for me to return if you were, ummm...ALL DONE! Still waiting on the intersection thingy.... :-- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 07:34, January 18, 2013 (UTC)
I'm still here, just don't have nearly as much spare time for LW as I used to (or as I'd like to). You might also be interested in this thread, where we finally came up with a solution to the missing footer problem. Check the first page in Category:Song (but be quick, before someone fixes it…) — 6×9 (Talk) 18:45, January 18, 2013 (UTC)
6, who wakes up every morning to the tune of and cranks up the B&O, has no time! Just a note that I made a {{ReverbNation}} template (mindlessly copied from Senv's tl|MA) Hope I didn't cause any evil. -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 08:48, January 26, 2013 (UTC)


I hate, hate, HATE sites that use JS for navigation! Link format for artists is or, where ###### is the id you see when hovering over the "Share All" link.

Song pages are trickier: direct link is, again ID is visible through the "Share" link. "-song-title" can be safely omitted, so that's good. Unfortunately you can't omit "artistname" or replace it with a generic string, so you'd have to pass both to the template. Both artistname and artistID work, though. Either way, it doesn't make for a very user-friendly template… — 6×9 (Talk) 09:11, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Took me a while to understand what you explained there. So the next poor soul who wants to expand that template to make it work for albums and songs is going to have to do some serious hair pulling! :) -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 13:42, February 1, 2013 (UTC)
  1. LyricWiki uses JS for the navigation
  2. Superior Firefox has a solution for the artist id: Step 1, Step 2 Tongue
  3. We needn't pass the artist id from the artist page, we can add it to the parameter, like we already do for iTunes. Not very user friendly, but template programmers friendly. Transclusion might probably lift that problem later on. - Chris 01:52, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
  1. That's the main reason I use monobook. Only Flash for navigation is worse.
  2. There's a superior FF? Where can I get that? I've only ever seen the regular one. Or do you mean sleeked-down, revved-up custom versions like Pale Moon?
  3. That's exactly what I wrote: we need to pass both to the template, exactly like iTunes. (Do you actually plan to transclude artist on album pages? Sounds hideously expensive to me… and dangerous, considering we also want to transclude albums on artist pages. Unless you plan to put the metadata on a subpage and only transclude that.) — 6×9 (Talk) 09:20, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Urgent Q

Hi 6. Are you able to edit? Seems you are, as well as ES, while I'm writing this msg from Lwt "editor" - suddenly LW editor have stopped working on my box. So did almost all pop-up menus. Have no idea what's happened... Any glue? Senvaikis (talk) 12:36, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Revocation: problem vanished the same way as appeared, without any changes on my side. --Senvaikis (talk) 13:31, January 23, 2013 (UTC)
Dunno when your troubles started, but I had no problems editing 20 minutes before you wrote the first message above… Weird. — 6×9 (Talk) 17:55, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Magic words, Wizards, and the other feller

6, whatever happened to 'SUBST:FLETTER'? is there a replacement? Thanks! -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 22:09, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Not sure there ever was a FLETTER magic word, but there's ARTISTFLETTER, ALBUMFLETTER and SONGFLETTER. Each only works on the corresponding pagetype (except artist which at least doesn't mind colons in the pagename). — 6×9 (Talk) 05:34, February 1, 2013 (UTC)
works like a charm. Thanks. -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 13:42, February 1, 2013 (UTC)


Mystery page

...more like mystery header...? — 6×9 (Talk) 08:17, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

item 485 on orphaned pages shows in blue, but here shows in red... why? SHIHO:いっしょにね 〜幸せのある場所〜 (post edit conflict) -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 08:46, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
Probably one of those Untouchables, where pagename contains a forbidden character (some sort of special whitespace, maybe?), that have plagued us for years; luckily Chris came up with a fix a while ago (other than pestering Sean): use API query (3rd from bottom) to get pageid & deletetoken, and lay the Undead to rest. — 6×9 (Talk) 09:13, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

Boyd Rice and others

See Boyd's page, and pages for Boyd Rice & Friends + Boyd Rice And Friends. This artist does many such collabs, see the link in the AI box of the friend pages. -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 08:49, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

Don't forget his pseudonym NON; nice mixture in ext links too: most are indeed for BR, but MBrainz is a Japanese guy and MA for some German band (no releases except two demos).
... & Friends seems to be one of those borderline cases where you can use your own judgement on whether you want to redirect the artist page to BR or keep it separate. The latter makes browsing a particular song more painful, but template handling more simple (none of that alias/albumartist stuff). Basically it depends on whether it's just solo artist with backing band, or whether the Friends have enough weight to hold down a separate page. — 6×9 (Talk) 09:27, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
Well I am going to use my best rtl judgement + an uunnamed feller's numerical analysis ;) and mash it all up under Boyd Rice, given that the friends aren't weighty enough to release 2 albums under the same collab name. So instead of 3 artist pages, we'll have ONE.
Equally tempting is to move NON to Boyd Rice. To be clear; BR &/And friends will be moved to Boyd Rice namespace. I'll wait for a nod/un-nod from you & Senv on this. --ES (talk) 11:06, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Multinational Flag?

Hughes Turner Project, collab or multi national? -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 07:42, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Seems more like a band than a collaboration: line-up was mostly the same on both albums, and they went on tour. Then hometown would be the place where the band was formed. Probably the US, where the first album was recorded, but where exactly? Or you could make a case for the project starting back in '89, when they recorded some demos… — 6×9 (Talk) 08:08, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
That makes perfect sense, because by that definition, a fair bit of Canadians who went south to record their first album will be declared American artists! Agreed, HTP is no collab. But had they gone to record their first release in Japan, would that make HTP a Japanese Band? So I still made no headway in the direction of a multinational flag? I'll give it a US flag, hope the English won't mind.
Wait, Canadians aren't Americans? Dang, I really need to brush up on geography…
I took place of recording as indication that the band (meaning all 5 members, not just the duo) was formed there. So, in your theoretical Eastern scenario, they'd still be a US band. Of course, that would also make a band of Japanese musicians who met up in the US and then immediately went back to JP to start working a US band, which is kinda silly; so, no hard & fast rule. But that's nothing new. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:41, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
Tell that to the hordes of Germans who come to visit Yukon, all year round! Anyhow you know how controversial artists hang out at my cabin, eh? I will be digging up more cases where I will try Not to make silly determinations and push for the multinational flag. Thanks for your patience. -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 09:08, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
Hey, finally somebody else excetp me has found that "hometown" for bands is not actually the best idea. But I'm always reading multinational flag... Is that a kind of new template or what? Maybe we need a new template in addition to {{ArtistHeader}} and {{Collaboration}}, namely {{Band}} and its subtemplate {{Band/Member}}? - Chris 19:25, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
Not a template, rather an option to put "country = Multinational", similar to Hometown/European Union. Want to come up with a flag icon? Preferably one that doesn't turn to pixel salad at 45px width :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 19:41, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
Maybe this one? Will upload it if you like it. - Chris 00:30, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
Waaah, no gray! No country flag I recall has gray in it…lol and this can scale down without turning into mush. -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 01:19, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
Chris has a good idea, If I understand him correctly, each band member will get their own lil flag so when members come from more than one country, one per member would be shown? but we can get away with a worldwide/multinational flag for now, we may need it for at most 50-100 pages. HoWeVeR... I am eager to see what is coming off of Chris's Album Transclusion effort, that can make a much bigger Bang! -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 01:45, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
Do you have a bigger resolution for that? Or better yet, vector format? Downscaling 69->45px makes things kinda blurry... — 6×9 (Talk) 12:46, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
[1] -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 15:31, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
Quote by EchoSierra: "Waaah, no gray! No country flag I recall has gray in it…" That was the whole point of using gray instead of colours, since I didn't want to depict any known flag. I also used 4 stripes because no flag I know has 4 and not 3 stripes... You should not anticipate any flag with the "world flag", that's why. - Chris 01:19, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
Btw, [2]. No bigger resolution available, because it was deliberately designed downscaled to final size of 45×27 so it'll not blur from being resized. - Chris 01:47, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
that world map looks great, forget the happy NATO one I suggested!
Will look great on Artists For Haiti -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 05:53, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
Flag - Multinational is a clear winner, and indeed looks good on that page. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:43, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
Thank you very much Blush Just a few words about Transclusion: It's true that my efforts are pretty advanced already, but there's a little problem: these pages look great and are functional, because I used lots of CSS on them. Smartphones however do not have those CSS styles, and my pages look plain horrible on a smartphone, opposed to the "default" pages which are also optimized for smartphones (like sectionwise unfolding, no album art, narrower indentation etc.). I'd probably need another 2 months to develop a second set of CSS rules for mobile phones, that can rely on the same HTML sourcecode the current templates produce... But I'll definitely go on and finish the last few bits. I'll set this to top priority, over Special:SOTD improvements or my own Lwt (called LWE = LyricWiki Editor, pretty and advanced. There's screenshots of the GUI, but no actual functionality behind it yet; I currently despair my class model and on parsing template sourcecode) - Chris 22:22, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

Joint Release, Compilation/Soundtracks

6, please take a peek here and tell me if I have it correct…Is that how Joint releases are indicated? I hope there is a better way! -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 19:16, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

If each song features the full cast, then yes, I'm afraid this is correct. I don't like it much either; if you have a different idea on how to handle this I'm all ears!
That also reminds me we still need an album equivalent to {{SongCollaboration}}. — 6×9 (Talk) 19:36, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

(I do realize that collab song or collab album won't get very many uses...) but either way, exactly what page name will the songs end up in?

  • artist1, artist2, artist3, ... :song ?

and referring to my example collab album, which is better: to list the songs only on the album page, and not make a collab artist page, or the other way around, or both? Is it conceivable to have the songs in the album namespace:

  • alb:song1, alb:song2, alb:song3

-- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 16:17, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

I found a good example, while working off the homeless song pages, take a look at Repo! & it's mb representation. Is that how we want to represent the attribuitions? tia, --ES (Talk) 06:33, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Dogs & Cogs

It appears that discogs changed their search rule for artists… From the artist page we are sending:

they expect:

similar problem with album search -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 02:07, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed both. Seems like a silly change, just omitting one char, but I guess it saves some bandwidth in the long run… — 6×9 (Talk) 18:45, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

AlBox on top?

First time I see something like This… -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 03:52, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it's not really meant for that. Normally I wouldn't mind, but it breaks our colour scheme. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:46, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Depeche Mode

What a joke. You're harping on the veracity of a LINK on a WIKI site... which conforms to the precedent already established on that page (listing all singles). You really discourage user involvement with boneheaded restrictions that truly mean nothing in the end. Why do people suddenly think they're hot shit when they get a modicum of privilege on an insignificant niche website? 19:31, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Dude, where do you get off deleting many hours and hours of work I've put in on the Depeche Mode page? Who cares if YOU feel something is redundant? You're indiscriminately undoing a pretty thorough page for no reason. Let me know who I can appeal to for review of your actions, please. Condemned82 (talk) 07:16, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
Would you care to refrence the specific pages that you are concerned with, or do you expect all the other admins to go thru the entire history of the DM page? You have done your research, right? --ES (Talk) 08:26, February 20, 2013 (UTC)Thought I'd ask
I would expect it to be a pretty easy comparison of 6x9's first edit of the page (Feb 6) to his last (Feb 14), as I disagree with every single one. In his opinion, a page shouldn't exist (or just simply linked to) if it contains a song that appears elsewhere. To me, it's beyond conceivable that someone could hear a single on the radio, Pandora, or even physical CD and go looking for the song lyrics categorized by single (i.e. they hear "Heaven", DM's new single, and find it on the list of singles, not knowing what album it appears on). Likewise, each lyric page has that "Also appears on..." section that is being harmed by these edits. Again, it's more than plausible that someone looks up the lyrics to a song and wants to know what format they could buy it in. He's removed 11 singles so far.
My main complaint is that my (and others) many hours of contributions are casually being tossed aside for no good reason. Does it hurt the site if there are multiple ways to find a lyric covering all formats? To me, this makes everything more accessible. These blanket edits/removals are very arbitrary, it's not like it's inaccurate information, nor vandalism... it's information. Condemned82 (talk) 18:54, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

Reprise: Revisiting Redundant Redundancies

6, we have

  1. Category:Songs In Multiple Languages using tl|Multiple Languages/V1
  2. Category:Songs in Multiple Languages using tl|MultipleLanguages

(confused Sean, even) Can you tell me which should stay and which should go? I figger the first one should stay with tl|MultipleLanguages but then the cat name changed to "S In ML". cheers -- ∃cho⚡ierr∀ ( ) 15:29, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

V1 was a temporary version, {{MultipleLanguages}} is final. The problem is that SIML appears to contain a mix of actual SIMLs and user translations, which should use {{TranslatedSong}} instead. Actually, the pagenames (.../en) suggest the latter, but that's not necessarily so (like this example). — 6×9 (Talk) 18:01, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
Category:Pages Using Multiple Languages/V1 Template done
The one page left here Category:Songs In Multiple Languages using tl|Multiple Languages/V1, was a manually added page: Duran Duran:Someone Else Not Me certainly by someone else, not me ;) --ES (talk) 22:27, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

AI Box

(I knew it was gonna happen, I tried to inform, I got nowhere, I need your precision diplomatic approach, If you have a better idea how to deal with this, I'm all ears!) Wink

6, Please take a look at VYM, open a few random artist pages from that label, look what was put in each of those pages as related artist, right next to the filled Label param? Gaaakk! Some r.l.a at work here!? Also follow the link from AI to the artist page check the mb/dogs/am page for them, there are actually records attributed to them, compilations. Should we even keep that artist page?

So all I want you to do (with sugar on top) is post a note on their talk page, so we are all in the clear as to what goes into that box, and what doesn't. Any further editing of those AI boxes for -rm s is either theirs or mine. I am not touching any of their edited pages until this issue is clarified.

also please see this (thankfully short) discussion. We need to update the docs about the AI box, otherwise AI will become a joke-box. --ES (Talk) 00:07, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do later today. Now I'm off to the doctor's. *cough, sniff* — 6×9 (Talk) 06:28, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
The spirit of Angela Merckel... --ES (Talk) 09:58, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Requests For Deletion

Is tagging songs as Requests For Deletion if they are copies of songs already there allowed? Fake Plastic Trees (talk)

redirect is prefered, unless it was a human creation. --ES (Talk) 12:23, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

How can I get pages to redirect? Fake Plastic Trees (talk)

replace the page contents with #redirect[[]]
note that there should be no space between redirect & [. Betweennthe [[]] goes the target of the redirect.
--ES (Talk) 12:49, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Weezer:Weezer (2011)

Why was my edit reversed? It's a fake album. Fake Plastic Trees (talk)

your request was denied. --ES (Talk) 12:25, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict)
  1. To mark a page for deletion, use the {{deletion}} template, don't add the category manually.
  2. A valid and sufficient reason has to be supplied… and no, "it's fake" is not sufficient. — 6×9 (Talk) 12:28, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Did I do it right then? Fake Plastic Trees (talk)

Yes. — 6×9 (Talk) 12:44, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

One Direction

In the singles part of their page you need to fix the little things link and add Kiss you. Fake Plastic Trees (talk)


Ziks, zis eez a zest 佐野元春. Artist page has roman param filled, but neither songs or artist has been moved to artist (roman). I wonder if a couple of artist redirects will be sufficient. What do, and other reading this think? tia --ES (Talk) 11:14, February 18, 2013 (UTC) xqze my late night accent Wink

LWPN says artist & songs should be moved to "Artist (Roman)". If you think this rule serves no purpose and makes things unnecessarily complex (and I'd be inclined to agree with you) you should leave it for now, until there's room for a new fundamental discussion :-) If we do change this rule, it'll mean a lot of work for the bots, moving most of JCK, Greek, Cyrillic etc. pages. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:00, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Old and new fairytales about Categories

Hi, 6

Yes, I know it's almost impossible to surprise you with any sort of miracles in the Kingdom of Categories, but this one is worth to tell you all the story, from the very begining...
So, I was playing with a page Marvin Gaye:Ain't That Peculiar. It contained doubled template Cover2, which should have been tansformed into Covered. I knew this song should have had much more (over 20) covers, so I looked at Category:Song, found 6 covers, then created some new cover pages on the same occasion, entered all them into template, and finally saved the page. Then I refreshed category page to recheck if freshly created pages have appeared there. Category contained the same 6 songs pages. Then I touched all the songs from the covers list.
What was my surprise, when I rechecked C:Song! Now it doesn't contain any of these songs! To be precise, it certainly should contain them - both page and api tells that page belongs to C:Song. But any attempt to find these songs in category - browsing the category page or using api - fails.
All this long story shows that something's going wrong with api - seems it misinterprets lowercase characters and fails to sort the response (notice the strange sequence of pagetitles at the end of above api response).
If I'm not missing something here, this tale makes most api applications absolutelly unpredictable. Then it would be fine if someone, (you, Chris or ES - who else?) ticketed this issue :) --Senvaikis (talk) 12:40, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
P.S. Here's one more evidence that something's wrong with api (or its user):
As you've possibly noticed, recently Lwt proudly announced about final and questionless C:PWMST cleaning. I was sure Lwt's right - it has walked through all (V,G,B,S,Gld) Songs to find all pages with multiple song headers. Now Lwt was told to repeat this task and... has found some new songs, undiscovered and unfixed on the first run! It wouldn't be very strange if these songs were touched recently - that'd mean they might not be in this category atm of first checking. But all these songs haven't been touched for years, ergo - all of them were just missed by api!--Senvaikis (talk) 13:21, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
This sounds like 2008 again :( Senv can you post a list of these long forgotten songs? Are they older than 2011?ES (Talk)
These songs weren't "long forgotten" - just they weren't touched between two Lwt's runs, i.e. should be discovered by Lwt on the first one.
Sorry for using 6's talk page as drop-box for all my anti-discoveries, but just couldn't resist to adding one more - please compare two responses to the same request: on working and on our api - (both taken from our api documentation)... --Senvaikis (talk) 17:34, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
  1. C:Song: I guess that's my fault, for changing sortkey to full pagename without telling… Sorry, I wasn't aware you used it like that. C:Songs_A should do what you want though.
    Note that the new sorting in C:S is only halfway there; many pages are still sorted by song title, even though it's been two months. Which ties into…
  2. Lagging category: Yeah, either the template edit broke the job queue int overflow? ;-) or Wikia uses an update-on-demand system instead. Unless we can get some sysop to run an update over the database, we'll have to make some bot touch all pages.
  3. imageinfo: Wikia did some weird stuff to the file namespace a while ago; maybe that's what broke the query? imageinfo works fine on any other namespace I checked, though the results are predictably boring :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 20:15, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
  1. As for sorting by pagename - I think your change was good, but yes, informing about such change or asking to run a total cat touching could save me some time... ;). Anyway - thx for clarity. About using C:S_A instead of C:S - it's passable for that particular case (searching for some limited interval in titles), but inconvenient for total-scope tasks.
  2. Am I right supposing that both (searching & sorting) problems may be solved just by touching all C:S? If so, would you endorse such touching? Though one question still remains open for me - why should we now use u-cased start/end strings in api queries?
  3. Nice :) I liked your working example with imageinfo very much ;) --Senvaikis (talk) 21:49, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
@2: Hope you didn't ask my permission for mass touching – if you need up-to-date cats for some task, just go ahead! As for sort key: dunno why it's case-insensitive when pagenames aren't; if you use cmstartsortkeyprefix instead, case is ignored completely. Doc only says cmstartsortkey "must be given in binary format" which obviously isn't true, since above example worked without being encoded to 1s and 0s… — 6×9 (Talk) 10:45, February 24, 2013 (UTC)
If either of you think a mass touch is in order, let me know, so I can start. I am certain it will lead to some fresh discoveries.
6, if you change a sort key, how long does it take for it to completely propogate thru C:Songs, months?! marvel at indentation ;) --ES (Talk) 16:19, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
@ES: you may start looking for discoveries right now - Lwt's close to completing its job, I hope it'll be done tomorrow :)
Happy hunting! --Senvaikis (talk) 19:29, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
@ES: When we still had a job queue, sorting used to be done when it was through (about a week for C:Song?); now it seems like it might never get done unless you force it, like Senv just did... — 6×9 (Talk) 05:44, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

done (there were only 15 min left to keep my promise...) --Senvaikis (talk) 21:52, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

So before I go hunting wabbits, let's define non-wabbit: C:Song is sorted by Song fletter, and Senv is indicating that the entire category of over 1.2 mil has been touched and should be in proper order, right? reaching out for the bandolier, toque and wabbit whistle... --ES (Talk) 22:48, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
Exactly. Hope you agree that wasn't a wabbit-like batch job ;). Thus - go, ES, go! --Senvaikis (talk) 06:58, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
That was a job for a weapon of mass destruction alright! Let's first see what shows up in orphaned pages in the next 20 minutes or so. My hunting ground is usually at the end of the C:S from Z to the end. btw: are category operations done according to the sort order of the cat, or by creation order of items (records), or pure random? --ES (Talk) 07:41, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
You mean updates after template edits? Dunno which order they are (probably whichever order WLH or WT returns), but since they usually span several categories I'd guess category sorting has nothing to do with it. — 6×9 (Talk) 12:39, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
Whenever I use export to export contents of a category (e.g. unknown country) it comes down in a jumble, I always thought that was the order that items where added to the category, post template edit. --ES (Talk) 10:37, February 28, 2013 (UTC)


Don't fb me :), click it see if what you fixed works! --ES (Talk) 10:38, February 23, 2013 (UTC)

Sure it does  :-) Was testing in preview mode if name instead of ID would be sufficient, and then stupidly saved before replacing with ID… Thx for the catch! — 6×9 (Talk) 10:43, February 23, 2013 (UTC)
Thank goodness you don't edit like a maniac, I follow your edits to learn... --ES (Talk) 05:14, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

Technical Restrictions of Batch Move

Six, you may remember that back in 2008-9 batch moving pages with brackets in their name required escaping the brackets just like we escape reserved charcters in regex. It no longer works! I am trying to batch move 'Ghoul (Italy)' to Ghoul (IT), or even just to Ghoul. Batch move acts like it's blind. Do you, or others have a solution? --ES (Talk) 05:14, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

Up to now, my solution was to do it manually or ask Senv :-) You could ask Sean to fix it. Odd that it finds the pages, but refuses to move them as if they were redirects… — 6×9 (Talk) 10:32, February 24, 2013 (UTC)
I thought you've got a solution (resolving move/redir requests) already? --Senvaikis (talk) 18:46, February 24, 2013 (UTC)
ducks and runs!
Six, in the future if you need a batch move, let me know!
I knew that! --ES (Talk) 16:07, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
Will do. Thanks! — 6×9 (Talk) 05:44, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

SHA ≠ Namespace

another post by the regular disturber of... Is this how it is supposed to be done? Shouldn't the famous actor be indicated in tl|fa? Further up (in the Joint Release, Compilation/Soundtracks) discussion, this is the kind of issue that I am trying to clarify. There is no documentation on how we are supposed to indicate such songs that appear on compilations. --ES (Talk) 11:24, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Surely not, imo. That's how it should be done (again imho). --Senvaikis (talk) 13:23, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
What's much more interesting - that's reanimation of anonymous cyborg we've been speaking about already... Just have no idea what we should do with Category:Takedown with Gracenotepage now... --Senvaikis (talk) 13:58, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
I have been following those recent edits with Shock & bewilderment & disgust, wtf is that borg up to?! Wouldn't it make more sense for a human at GN to send a list to a human at lw, instead of all this gymnastics? --ES (Talk) 17:07, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
They're at it again? Oh, great. Last time it went through a huge backlog of takedowns and restorations, leading to many edit wars with itself. Also, needless to say, it's unable to protect or unprotect pages or pagenames, so we've probably got lots of protected pagenames that are no longer on the takedown list… — 6×9 (Talk) 18:54, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
RE: original question; without owning the album, it seems "performer" here just means narrator, so artist is JW, and RB should be relegated to fa or the Credits section. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:54, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
Enough is enough. I suppose all those TwGNPs are a result actual takedowns where GNBIP wasn't able to delete the GN pages… I've blocked the IP for 1 month to avoid further edit wars. — 6×9 (Talk) 19:54, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
So shall it be known to one & all and forever more that mismatch of sha & namespace is evil? Or are there any exceptions? (like for artists from the country rock called Gibraltar?) Tangent:and a good block indeed! --ES (Talk) 22:42, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

@block: Well Done!!--Senvaikis (talk) 07:06, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Agree that it's evil, but unfortunately still occasionally required, like for disambig'ed artists (i.e. SHA is "Artist (XX)" but prefix should still be "Artist" as that's the actual name, per LWPN). Makes things hideously complex… — 6×9 (Talk) 12:23, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
Disambig'd artists are hideous but a pretty well defined set at least! --ES (Talk) 04:46, February 28, 2013 (UTC)

Problems brewing in CJK department

  1. Artist page may have been created in multiple script systems (pin yin, trad chinese, simplified chinese). Came across this last week when romanizing CJK artists) I suppose equally likely in the Japanese department.
  2. Some songs and tracklists are in CJK, instead of English as per mb (dunno how it was listed on albcover!). Or song is listed in CJK on artist and album, but both redirect to english song title.
  3. the issue of splitting pages that contain more than one version of song (English/Kanji/Romanized Japanese)

I suppose this is going to sit on this page for a long time, I'm hoping to deal with artist titles first, then probably need to go thru entire CJK and make sure tracklists and albums and song titles are per spec. Any ideas, corrections, revelations, documentation revisions, welcome. --ES (Talk) 04:46, February 28, 2013 (UTC)



new template. --ES (Talk) 02:01, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

Similar to ReverbNation… Linking to
  • artists: trivial (just needs artistname);
  • albums: not so trivial (need artistname and album title, so either two params or passing both as one param, delimited by slash – I'd prefer the latter as it's more consistent with the other extlink templates);
  • songs: loaded per JS so getting any sort of link isn't exactly user-friendly… unless they offer it as download ("Free .MP3"), in this case you just need the ID.
If you think we should enable linking to albums I'll tweak the template and the doc, otherwise I'd stick to artists and song downloads. — 6×9 (Talk) 16:09, March 10, 2013 (UTC)
My pref is to just leave Pure volume & Reverbnation for artist pages only, down the road we can go for album & song pages, if they stay put and don't disappear periodically. But if you are willing to make another external artist template, I'd vote for bandcamp: they have lot's of good artists, the songs tend to have lyrics, have a look at Delta Moon's page on band camp [3]. Of course I'd love to see MA/ProgArch/BC/RN/PV become optional params in af, that way they also show up clearly in af docs rather than something that only some folks know about! These are useful for artists that don't show on our other af links. tia! --ES (Talk) 05:51, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
Adjusted both templates & docs. (PV downloads can still be added through SF's download param.) I'll look at bandcamp tomorrow (I hope).
I'm reluctant to add params to widely used templates that will only be used on a fraction of pages (esp. ma & pa which by definition exclude the majority of artists). But I've added their links to the AF doc, which is something that should have been done long ago, so thanks for making me think of it, even though it's not what you wanted :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 19:52, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
{{bandcamp}} – gotta say though, while I do appreciate minimalism and keeping things simple, their favicon might be taking simplicity too far… — 6×9 (Talk) 20:21, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
Forgot about that bit about why everything is not in AF, ty!
It looks like the favicon designer was in charge of other things too, their page for Sufjan Stevens is at and their page for Cœur De Pirate is at while Delta Moon is at Gaaakk! what are we going to do about that?! My bad, shoulda checked a couple of hundred urls first! --ES (talk) 06:19, March 13, 2013 (UTC) and both work and redirect to the above urls; the real question is how our average user is supposed to find that out… — 6×9 (Talk) 08:19, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
easy enough, insert Senv's advice on the bandcamp template doc; if the link doesn't work as expected, ask 3 administrators for help ;) --ES (talk) 08:41, March 13, 2013 (UTC) and a bot!
Or ask 1 and get 2 more free! You can get the subdomain through the API (example), but that's not really helpful for most non-Senv users either. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:29, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
Nothing's good for senv also: "Sorry, we're not handing out new developer keys at the moment. Follow @bandcamp to be notified when we start doing so again." :) --Senvaikis (talk) 05:38, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

Drinking to ABBA's HEALTH

chug-a-lug! --ES (Talk) 09:42, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

Woah, two artist pages and no overlap! That's gotta be a first! MB has another artist of the same (-i) name, but lists only one song on some obscure compilation, but that might be reason enough to keep this one at all-caps for disambig purposes.
Else, unless there's compelling reason to write a name as all-caps (acronyms, an explicit statement by the artist, or at least consistent uppercasing even in mixed-case texts) I'd move it to its less headache-and-possibly-eye-cancer-inducing title-case equivalent. — 6×9 (Talk) 16:23, March 10, 2013 (UTC)
I am going to make a page in my sandbox and list every ALLCAPS artist on site, so you (&S&C) can throw a judgement on whether the artist will be allowed to remain an eyesore. I come from a nocaps background (in addition to rtl), and it makes me jump everytime I see allcaps! I will disambiguate anything to avoid all caps, as the case is with HEALTH & CANON. stay tooned --ES (Talk) 05:56, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
Eyesores, incomplete, but I'll be adding to it every day.--ES (talk) 01:55, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
More like EYESORES. Especially those with UC songs/albums, so you can't even prescribe batchmove as a cure-all. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:29, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

Who's on Acid?

Me or or them? I keep listening for Instrumentals, they keep singing! Is them doubled up columns ok? We can use such a scheme to make our long pages shorter Wink Senv would love it, if it played nice with the api!Oh --ES (talk) 09:07, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

API finds all songs as long as the line they're on starts with "#" (and maybe "*" too), how they're displayed doesn't matter. That's what I created {{OL}} for. Pity this particular page breaks it using "|#1=" instead of putting the "|" at the end of the previous line. (Maybe it's time for a bot run to find those, before they spread further by example?)
Kinda pointless though if the instr. links go to the lyricked pages and the tracklist is the same (or just ordered slightly differently). Those should go straight in the redundancy bin – it's enough to list them on the album pages. — 6×9 (Talk) 10:45, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
He was kind enough to fix things up himself, and the other artist page with the same malady. Probably as lost as I am with Collab Arist, Collab Album, Collabsongs, if a collab is an event or an object... or a DogCow that yelps Moof!--ES (talk) 22:04, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

move page

I really need to check my spelling (more), can you move 初音ミク (Miku Hatcune):初めての恋が終わる時 to 初音ミク (Miku Hatsune):初めての恋が終わる時? Thanks. --ʃu126 22:50, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

done6×9 (Talk) 18:42, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Two tasks in one request :)

Hi, 6

after all songs with {{Covered}} & {{AddAlb}} have been updated (changing #param -> param#), both these templates may be simplified, removing support for old-style format. That would be a fine ocasion to extend the limit of Covered also :).
Agree? --Senvaikis (talk) 09:21, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
Loops would be great… unfortunately they're limited to 100 iterations *per page*. So if page name has 20 spaces, {{CapsCheck}} uses up as many… you can do the math.
I was thinking of maybe trimming them down to a reasonable number (20…30) of params and just using more than one template where necessary. You'd add "|more=yes" or something to signal that there's more coming, and the template wouldn't close the table; the next one would know there's an open table and just continue there. Does this sound reasonable to you? — 6×9 (Talk) 18:48, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
Damn... that was a surprise for me, should say :) Am I right - isn't that a "per template" limit? And if page contains 5 "looped" templates, then only 20 average iterations remains per template? But that's a real stone age then - just hard to believe!:(
Not sure if I'd like such "glued" templates for ultra-long covers lists... Moreover - maybe we should rethink their expediency on the whole - I've made a couple of samples with such lists, and truth to tell, both seemed quite ugly on the song page. Maybe we should think about some alternative form of publishing such cover-monsters in subpage (/Covers) namespace then?
 :(--Senvaikis (talk) 20:02, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
Def. per page. Severely limits their usefulness, doesn't it? AFAIK it's for security – limiting per template only would still allow DoS attacks by nesting several loops. (5 levels -> 10^10 ops -> do this in tl:Song and goodbye, Wikia.)
Subpage sounds like a good idea. I don't think we can avoid "gluing"; there's bound to be at least one song with > 100 covers. I'm also thinking whether we shouldn't put Covered, Parody, Movie/Game/otherFeature etc. below the lyrics, since they can add up to a lot of space. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:32, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Two tasks in one request :)

Hi, 6

after all songs with {{Covered}} & {{AddAlb}} have been updated (changing #param -> param#), both these templates may be simplified, removing support for old-style format. That would be a fine ocasion to extend the limit of Covered also :).
Agree? --Senvaikis (talk) 09:21, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
Loops would be great… unfortunately they're limited to 100 iterations *per page*. So if page name has 20 spaces, {{CapsCheck}} uses up as many… you can do the math.
I was thinking of maybe trimming them down to a reasonable number (20…30) of params and just using more than one template where necessary. You'd add "|more=yes" or something to signal that there's more coming, and the template wouldn't close the table; the next one would know there's an open table and just continue there. Does this sound reasonable to you? — 6×9 (Talk) 18:48, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
Damn... that was a surprise for me, should say :) Am I right - isn't that a "per template" limit? And if page contains 5 "looped" templates, then only 20 average iterations remains per template? But that's a real stone age then - just hard to believe!:(
Not sure if I'd like such "glued" templates for ultra-long covers lists... Moreover - maybe we should rethink their expediency on the whole - I've made a couple of samples with such lists, and truth to tell, both seemed quite ugly on the song page. Maybe we should think about some alternative form of publishing such cover-monsters in subpage (/Covers) namespace then?
 :(--Senvaikis (talk) 20:02, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
Def. per page. Severely limits their usefulness, doesn't it? AFAIK it's for security – limiting per template only would still allow DoS attacks by nesting several loops. (5 levels -> 10^10 ops -> do this in tl:Song and goodbye, Wikia.)
Subpage sounds like a good idea. I don't think we can avoid "gluing"; there's bound to be at least one song with > 100 covers. I'm also thinking whether we shouldn't put Covered, Parody, Movie/Game/otherFeature etc. below the lyrics, since they can add up to a lot of space. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:32, March 18, 2013 (UTC)


File:Bandcamp.png needs reuploading - it doesn't appear to exist on Wikia's server. I'd do it myself, but I don't know what image you used.     ǝsʞpɐןǝ  (talk page)  12:36, 19 March 2013

Works here, on the artist page that it doesn't appear, open the artist page for edit, then save without editing, also see Fountains Of Youth's bc link. hth --ES (talk) 12:53, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
I'm not seeing the image at all - it's returning a 404. (Direct link)
It's a known issue on Wikia at the moment, and is normally fixed by a reupload.     ǝsʞpɐןǝ  (talk page)  13:09, 19 March 2013
Edit: Cheers for the reupload, EchoSierra - I now see it.     ǝsʞpɐןǝ  (talk page)  13:17, 19 March 2013
Kudos to 6 for making the template ;) --ES (talk) 13:20, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Wynton Marsalis & Eric Clapton sans loca

Play the Blues: Live From Jazz at Lincoln Center (2011) Can you please make the album/(artist?) page. I tried making a song page with SongCollab, footer mb link gives me VA!. I'm thinking if the album page is made, why do we need an artist page? We can list it on both individual artist pages, where most are likely to look for them. tia --ES

[4] Is the title "Play the Blues" or "Play the Blues[separator]Live From Jazz at Lincoln Center"? Is the last bit part of the album title or additional description? Or is the actual title, and artist is "Wynton Marsalis & Eric Clapton Play the Blues", as the spine might suggest if it weren't for the different text colour? Don't they think of sites like D, MB or us when they do stuff like that?
SF wasn't fixed to ignore VA when SC was created; will need to do that at some point. If you don't want to create an artist page we'll need a collab option for AH, since it's not a split release. So either a separate template (which would fit in more with C & SC) or additional "Artist#" parameters in AH. — 6×9 (Talk) 12:19, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Northmont and Bryan Malpass lyric page changes

Hey, I know that you are Admin on here, so perhaps you might be able to clear a few things up for me. Earlier today, I found 7 total emails notifying that changes were made to lyric pages that I put up on here. There were 2 about Northmont and 5 about Bryan Malpass. I was just wondering why these were changed. Is it because I added a video to the lyric page? Thanks for any information that you can give to me. Mkbooth91 (talk) 22:39, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

The changes were corrections to details that don't match site policy on page contents, please note them for your future editions. --ES (talk) 23:08, March 24, 2013 (UTC)
To elaborate: Please use the {{youtube embed}} template, rather than the video upload feature, to embed videos on song pages. — 6×9 (Talk) 19:48, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Request to delete pages

Hey 6x9, I'm frankly, just looking for an admin to help me out with this. On the Stone Sour page, there is the "Other Songs" section, that is filled with songs that are either duplicate pages or NOT by stone sour. I removed these, and the only ones that belong in that list is The Pessimist and Some Kinda Monster.

The rest of them are duplicates, and are already listed on the page in the appropriate section. As I said, I removed them, and looked back the next day, and they are back! Turns out LYRIC-Janitor is re-adding those links to the band page. So I guess, the action to take, is to remove the page. And I suppose, considering, I clearly don't have the privileges to do so, I'mma just give you a gooood ask about it. The pages that need to be removed are:

Thanks! --The loveable tat, THE_GMoD. :3 (talk) 06:15, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Didn't get there fast enough, ES already moved/redirected the lot. Thanks Echo!
@GMoD: We prefer redirecting over deleting for misspelled song titles. The good news for you is that you can redirect yourself! :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 06:49, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
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