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Question about lyrics accuracy

Are lyrics on this site supposed to be: A) what the artist may have printed on the album; or, B) a transcription of what is actually sung?

Eg, Im listening to Talking Heads/More songs about food and building/I'm Not in Love and there are differences between the lyrics in this wiki and what's actually sung. However, when I do a google search to other lyric sites, the lyrics that i find are all universally "wrong." That is, this site,, and every other lyrics site have the same "wrong" version, making me think that all these sites are using the lyrics printed on the album, and not what is actually sung.

Approach (A) has its merits because its the canonical version and it reflects the artist's original intent. However, personally, I'd favor the latter "what-is-sung" approach (B), since if you trying to sing along, incorrect album lyrics aren't that helpful. --Petzl 12:16, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I think the rule is that lyrics should be what is sung if it is different to the lyrics printed in the booklet. - ezekiel000 12:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks ezekiel000. Yes it is always as sung. See Help:Contents/Editing/Formatting/Songs#Lyrics.  Яєdxx Actions Words 12:26, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Ah, ok. As usual, I shdve read the FAQ. It's odd though, how UNIVERSAL the wrong lyrics are for various songs. This might be the only place on the web that one can get the correct version. However, it also seems like theres a danger, because once you tell people to transcribe what they hear, they're going to inevitably get things wrong: eg, in The Police/Every Breath You Take, mistaking "My poor heart aches" for "Im a pool hall ace".... Cheers--Petzl 12:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Rfl..yes there is a site for misheardlyrics.
Oh and I almost forgot, to make an internal link just surround the page name with brackets, e.g. [[Talking Heads:I'm Not In Love]] is this: Talking Heads:I'm Not In Love. You can also do this: [[Talking Heads:I'm Not In Love|the Talking Heads song I'm talking about]] which displays like this: the Talking Heads song I'm talking about.
Happy editing!  Яєdxx Actions Words 12:39, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Your page was looking decidely empty...

Multi-Platinum Record The Multi-Platinum Record
6, I hereby present you with this Multi-Platinum Record I just wanted to thank you again for all the improvements you've made to templates around here. Thanks for your dedication to this site... ..we are very lucky to have you in our ranks.  Яєdxx Actions Words 12:33, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Wow! This is probably the least amount of sarcasm that Red has ever used in speaking to you (unless I've completely misread her intentions). Anyway, I'd like to concur with her. Your crazy template-making and modifying skills are R-I-Diculous. I'm jealous. Thanks for all the hard work. --WillMak050389 13:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Thank you! Maybe I should clear out my talk page more often…
Yes, occasionally (very occasionally) Red manages a sarcasm-free post – usually when she wants something from me ;-) Wonder what it'll be this time…6×9 (Talk) 17:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
SHORT VERSION: I'm sure I can think of something ;)  Яєdxx Actions Words 21:11, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Multi-Platinum, looks like a biiiig job =P - Chris 21:52, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Haa haa  Яєdxx Actions Words 10:52, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


Congratulations to your Multi-Platinum. And thanks, eventually I found out on my own what the error was. However you could help me: - For the discogs-links: which one to choose or just master/30521? - Chris 20:20, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I guess a link to the master page is the best option if one is available. At least Discogs provides basic information on the master pages, unlike MusicBrainz which just shows a list of releases on release-group pages… — 6×9 (Talk) 20:47, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
OK, I hoped to get this answer, because this will certainly increase my edit-speed from now on, as I don't have to think about which one to choose anymore. Until now my edit-speed is too slow, because sometimes the category I try to clean (Length) grows faster than I can reduce it. If I didn't fill in the information on {{AlbumFooter}} I'd even be faster of course, but unless there is no "Albums without Discogs info"-Category i. e. (and the similar ones for musicbrainz and so on) there's no chance to find those albums again. Is there any plan to create these categories? - Chris 21:00, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
The reason these categories currently don't exist is that not all releases have Discogs or MB pages, or ASIN or iTunes codes, etc. A solution would be to allow "N/A" or something like that as parameter, which would remove the page from the "missing" category but not display a link. If we want automated page ranking we'll need something like that anyway… — 6×9 (Talk) 21:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
So it's no thing to leave it blank, because there will be the chance of easy-finding later on? If so, I will leave this parameters blank from now on. Otherwise I will fill in the info now as I have got pages without info... - Chris 21:21, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Yep, no problem. Editing a page doesn't mean you have to fix everything at once :-) It's perfectly OK to just fill in the length, hit save and leave. — 6×9 (Talk) 21:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
As you are here and I'll have to ask someone anyway: musicbrainz rather give release-group or release (found out by date this time)
Maybe the help should be overhauled anyway to provide this information and make clear what about akuma e. g. (now sometimes shown and sometimes not) - Chris 21:38, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Edith said that release group probably wouldn't work because the template creates the extern link with "/release/"?
That's true. I just updated the {{AlbumFooter}} documentation and am about to do the same for {{MusicBrainz}}. It would be easier to switch over to "release-group" pages entirely (especially for multi-disc sets), but as I mentioned above they hardly provide any info there, so we chose not to do that. (Though that was never discussed publicly… maybe we should bring it up on the comm. portal.) — 6×9 (Talk) 21:54, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
The last time we did fills one third of the discussion page now xD - Chris 07:04, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
I expect this one would be comparatively painless – after all, there are no colours to discuss! — 6×9 (Talk) 10:58, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


Mmmm...sometimes we get these pages that aren't easy to categorise. Suggestions for these 2? LyricWiki:Album of the Week & LyricWiki:Song of the Day...I did categorise Song of the Day in Category:Song Of The Day but it seems a little out of place in amongst all the songs. I would be inclined to put these two in Category:Main articles,but it only has "Main" page related stuff in that cat and whether intentional or not, it seems a good idea to keep it that way.  Яєdxx Actions Words 15:38, 9 July 2009 (UTC) P.S. ..and then we have their archives..LyricWiki:Song of the Day/Archive

How about Category:Lists? The archives should go to "Cat:NAMESPACE Archives" (like all others), I'd think… — 6×9 (Talk) 20:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
What about this >> LyricWiki:Requests Maybe a Miscellaneous category is needed lol  Яєdxx Actions Words 00:36, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia usually add the main page of a category as the first alphabetical entry by placing [[Category:This Is A Category Name| ]] on the page. See Category:The Simpsons, underneath the subcategories, a link to The Simpsons article page is placed before any of the secondary pages. So LyricWiki:Album of the Week should have [[Category:Album Of The Week| ]] at the bottom and same concept with SotD. Just my thoughts. --WillMak050389 02:06, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Good idea! We already use spaces in front of sortnames for many subcategories, because they are only shown up to the same letter as pages if there are >200. See Category:Hometown/England for example, where only 38 out of 48 subcats are visible because Red constantly forgets this ;-) — 6×9 (Talk) 02:40, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Excellent solution Will! Thanks! And 6, any pages that I come across in future that I'm unsure where to categorise I'll stick in Category:Miscellaneous to be decided on later. That way all pages should eventually get properly categorized. They will also be easy to locate in the interim since they will all be in the one place.  Яєdxx Actions Words 11:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Usually the best category is what you'd call them - I'd categorise those simply as a "History Page" =P
By the way, can anyone explain why it's is "Album Of The Week" but "Song of the Day"? Chris 16:55, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Maybe someone thought LW:PN was true for ALL pages… — 6×9 (Talk) 22:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok mystery. This is really bugging me. Look at this: Category:LyricWiki archives/Song Of The Day/2009 then compare to this: Category:LyricWiki archives/Song Of The Day/2008 One looks neat and the other not so. Question is what the heck have I done differently to cause that? I really can't see it..  Яєdxx Actions Words 22:39, 10 July 2009 (UTC) P.S. I don't know Chris I never set the original pages up.

No mystery there. In a few months the 2009 one will look just like the 2008 one. Let's see if that bit of info is enough for you to work it out… ;-) — 6×9 (Talk) 22:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Lol Next question..I hit on a problem with sorting order when it got to October..the 10th month. So I did this: 910 (yes I can see you falling off your chair..well it was a solution ;)) OK since it was never my intention to leave it like that, can you tell me how to do it properly please?  Яєdxx Actions Words 23:07, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Wow. I knew the British have issues with numbers (what with their refusal to accept the metric system, and all that), but that you aren't even aware of the concept of leading zeros… — 6×9 (Talk) 23:20, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
See? That wasn't so hard now, was it? :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 23:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Here, have a purple hat Hat I wish I had a purple hat like that  Яєdxx Actions Words 23:59, 10 July 2009 (UTC) <<< watching Robin Trower on the TV ("Guitar Heroes at the BBC") watching this superb group. Actually, he always wore rather a nice hat....
"Forget your lust for the rich man's gold all that you need is in your soul.."
Thanks, but purple isn't quite my colour. It's more Kiefer's. (Though why he doesn't go blind from the combination of purple & sig-green is a mystery…) I doubt Ronnie Pilgrim would have given up his halo (or his horn) for a hat like that. — 6×9 (Talk) 00:10, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Wow. Redxx is handing out "Pimp My Wiki" hats. Who'd'a thought?    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   03:58, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


I thought I saw you slacking for a minute there so I've found you something to occupy your hands ;)

Ok, well it's like this. You know how I've been amusing myself last couple of days with tidying up the archives and tidying up some of their related categories (blame my involvement in "Song of the Day" thing leads me to well I've hit on a bit of a problem with the above template. So could you do an #if thingy and amend it so that they go into the nice individual categories I've now created. It needed to be done obviously. And it needed to be done now, before Category:LyricWiki talk archives got even more unwieldy and messy. No rush. Thank you x  Яєdxx Actions Words 14:49, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Dunno about "unwieldy"… it's only 48 pages so far! It looks messy, because of the longish pagenames, but the names won't get any shorter if we put them into subcategories. (And how many people actually look at this category anyway?) — 6×9 (Talk) 19:19, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Maybe it would look better if there are no columns. I do not know about possibilities in Wiki, but this would certainly look better, especially on smaller screens (not so many linebreaks then). - Chris 20:12, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Even better would be if we could strip the namespace from the link texts, since it's the same for all pages anyway… Unfortunately there's no magic word for that, and I don't know of any extension that would allow it either. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:51, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Sorry 6 did you say directing to the individual cats via {{ArchNav}} can't be done?  Яєdxx Actions Words 15:21, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Not that it can't be done (though you'd want an #ifeq, not an #if for that) but that I think it's neither necessary nor desirable. "Unwieldy" is more something on the order of Cat:L/English (now back up to 558,659 thanks to Senv). — 6×9 (Talk) 20:18, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

1 Infinite Loop

or nearly so: [1] — The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs).

And not the only one either: [2]. Time to let Janitor's owner know, I think… Thanks for the notice! — 6×9 (Talk) 23:50, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Captain Beefheart:The Spotlight Kid (1972)

I've amended all these now 6, so hopefully won't have to bring your attention to this again...  Яєdxx Actions Words 15:19, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Album covers are a different matter though… good thing there's a workaround, or we'd need an albumartist parameter for that as well. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:24, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Categories Needing Attention

Hi 6,
I checked the pages that just got listed in your CNA, here's my result:

Problem: It's a disambiguation-page, so I don't even know if it should have Header & Footer.
Solution-suggestion: There are only 2 links (Anonymous (band), Anonymus), so maybe instead of linking them to the disambiguation simply link them to each other and make Anonymous a normal page again.

Chris 02:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

That was surprise for me too formerly, but for some strange reason LW uses Slovene instead of Slovenian. --Senvaikis (talk) 07:22, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
OK, as "Slovenian language"-Article redirects to "Slovene language" and the article speaks of "Slovene" I guess it's ok. It's just confusing because ISO 639-1 speaks of "Slovenian". Maybe we can ask Teknomunk to change "Slovenian" to "Slovene" - should not be that big deal.
But aren't you supposed to enjoy yourself? =p Go and enjoy holidays, Senv, otherwise you won't be able to give full power when you're back. - Chris 08:16, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
What a thrilling concern about my holidays! Never've felt such love & tutelage from you & Red before :). Or are you just jealous, knowing that I can keep tabs on you even without leaving my fishing place, with my portable HP workstation & mobile 3G connect? ;)--Senvaikis (talk) 09:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, to remind you of your holidays I copied from Red. She says you're a hard working guy, and hard working guys need a recreative timeout. I bet she doesn't like it to see you working when you ought to relax - there's time for work, and there's time for holiday. Now it's the last one ;) - Chris 10:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)lol, - was sure I'm answering to 6; only now noticed that this company has grown to 3 ;)--Senvaikis (talk) 10:29, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Language thing first: We decided at some point to stick with Wikipedia's names for languages, hometowns, genres etc. (Only labels are different, because for some reason wp appends " Records" to almost each and every one…)
"Boa" and "Anonymous" indeed shouldn't have an ArtistFooter – Janitor just added it along with the Other Songs recently.
@Senv: Don't think it'll stop at us 3 – if necessary we'll get more people to help out! — 6×9 (Talk) 11:29, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Indeed we will! Is that sea or freshwater fishing Senv? I used to do a spot of both [I caught some fair size carp] but I got a bit of a conscience. By the way all the categories Chris mentioned above are empty now :-)  Яєdxx Actions Words 23:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Link for you...

[3]  Яєdxx Actions Words 21:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Reminds me of the old days when I was younger and less grumpy and subscribed to the ET newsletter, when the WWW was still fairly new and Google didn't even exist… — 6×9 (Talk) 22:09, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Haa haa...less grumpy? You don't do bad ;)  Яєdxx Actions Words 23:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
PS. Adrian Belew occasionally read the newsletter… IIRC Fripp had a few choice comments about it as well… — 6×9 (Talk) 23:17, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedia Template on Song Page

I was going to get SandBot to update the wikipedia templates on all the song pages in this category to WP-Song but I can't, can I because the link may not be to the song (i.e. the badge type).Also why are there genres and other weird pages in that cat?  Яєdxx Actions Words 00:41, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

No idea why other pages appear in there. If you click on them, you'll see that the category isn't listed at the bottom, but they still appear in there… They disappear if you touch them, though. It seems #ifs, variables and categories don't mix well. The same thing happened when I tried to categorise pages with more than one Song template – just about every song page ended up in the category. — 6×9 (Talk) 00:45, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
So do you think those odd pages are really in that category, or are they just ghosts? (I realised after I saved my post that the badge = {{Wikipedia}}).  Яєdxx Actions Words 00:53, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Song pages = really in there. Other pages = ghosts (though all of them do have the Wikipedia template). — 6×9 (Talk) 00:55, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Anime:Ghost In The Shell (Anime) Why on template page is box white but on page it is brown? I don't get it (I wanted a white one) Is it because the template thinks from page name that this IS a song page?  Яєdxx Actions Words 01:55, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Yep, the template calls WP-Song instead if pagename looks like it's a song. This was meant to be a temporary fix, until all Wikipedia templates on song pages got replaced… but that never happened. Guess I'd better undo it anyway… — 6×9 (Talk) 02:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
SandBot is sorting this category as we speak under 400 now  Яєdxx Actions Words 02:05, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Does she check if they are really song pages though? Might have been a good idea to touch them all first, to get rid of the ghosts… — 6×9 (Talk) 02:14, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
That's what I meant. — 6×9 (Talk) 02:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm keeping a close eye on her. She started misbehaving and changed some in the Lists category but I gave her a stern talking to and she's being as good as gold now :-) Well she must've done that when my back was turned but I'll be checking her work when she's done too.  Яєdxx Actions Words 02:27, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Alright then :-) Maybe after that you could let Sandy go through all Hometown subcategories in Category:Wikipedia articles/Category and replace {{Wikipedia| with {{WP-Flag|? — 6×9 (Talk) 02:39, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Green check 49 left in there :-)  Яєdxx Actions Words 03:44, 16 July 2009 (UTC) P.S. And no errors..I caught them all. P.P.S. I'm Sandy...she's SandBot (lol)

Sorry no can do on flags :-( I think it would need regex and wildcards.  Яєdxx Actions Words 09:48, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

No, you're Red =P
Try this regex: -regex -cat:Wikipedia_articles/Category "\{\{Wikipedia\|(*)\}\}" "{{WP-Flag|\1}}"
But please try on single page instead of category first, e. g.: -regex -page:Category:Academy_Award_Winners "\{\{Wikipedia\|(*)\}\}" "{{WP-Flag|\1}}"
Although... Well, you also could try: -cat:Wikipedia_articles/Category "{{Wikipedia|" "{{WP-Flag|"
Chris 11:24, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Please don't try it on Category:Academy Award Winners – WP-Flag is only for Hometown/… subcategories. (It doesn't like it when you try to put it somewhere else.) — 6×9 (Talk) 12:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh, then we'll need -start and the end-option^^ - Chris 20:10, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
That's what I mean. Category:Wikipedia articles/Category hasn't got a Hometown sub-category. It would change all the Wikipedia boxes on all the individual category pages into flags. (I need one category and one task to complete on all pages within that category 6). Unless, as Chris says, I can define a start and an end.  Яєdxx Actions Words 03:38, 21 July 2009 (UTC) -cat:Wikipedia_articles/Category -page:Hometown/* "{{Wikipedia|" "{{WP-Flag|"
Maybe this will work? Otherwise -cat:Wikipedia_articles/Category -start:Hometown/Afghanistan "{{Wikipedia|" "{{WP-Flag|"
and press CTRL+C to abort when you reached Hometown/Zimbabwe - Chris 06:35, 21 July 2009 (UTC) who's still not able to log in with Botanic =(
You know, we have a bot portal… — 6×9 (Talk) 14:14, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Damn cheek!! You was the one that started this ;) Thank you Chris, but seeing as how narky 6 is being because his nice empty talk page is getting a bit full (he's a "minimalist"), I'm not so sure I'm actually going to attempt this now. I might give it a whirl. Or I might not. :P  Яєdxx Actions Words 22:27, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
UPDATE: Neither of the above worked. I even tried a few of my own but no go sorry :(  Яєdxx Actions Words 20:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
No problem, it wasn't really a pressing issue anyway, more a cosmetic thing. (Does anyone ever look at the hometown categories anyway? Other than to see what to use for state?) — 6×9 (Talk) 03:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC) -cat:Wikipedia_articles/Category -requiretitle:Hometown "{{Wikipedia|" "{{WP-Flag|"
=] This is a new solution with a flag mentioned in the documentation of I'll give it a try. - Chris 04:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm, is there any page with "Wikipedia" anyway? It's only saying "Getting [[Category:Wikipedia articles/Category]] starting at 0-9" class="external text..." - not sure if that's because the first pages all are correct or if it doesn't work... - Chris 16:43, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for posting all this bot stuff on your page 6 but you might be able to solve some of the mystery on this too.
@Chris. Interesting code. The code did allow me to bypass the category pages preceding Hometowm, and I did succeed in getting a result (see screenprint). However, my observances:
  1. SandBot seemed to run through the category very quickly, far too quickly to have read all subcategories.
  2. Upon investigation the pages SandBot selected did not need updating because they already had flags.
  3. Whereas this page has got old stylee wikipedia box and was not selected.
I really fail to see why it selected the pages it did. Can you see why 6? (I only did up to Mexico). The code didn't seem to change anything either (it didn't require input from me in the way of [y]es [n]o] [a]ll, etc. ). It only seemed to create a list, and not an accurate one at that. So what was you expecting it would do Chris?  Яєdxx Actions Words 03:28, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Could it be a codepage thing? Because in your screenshot, the "å" in "Småland" looks more like a "σ", so maybe "|" or "{" are converted to some weird characters that you won't find on any category page. — 6×9 (Talk) 09:55, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I am using codepage 850 (my default).
chcp 850
Chris 21:31, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Must be some other reason. Just checked – "{" and "|" are the same characters in Windows and DOS. — 6×9 (Talk) 21:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
See above Chris...  Яєdxx Actions Words 22:02, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Look at the bottom of my talk-page. This is too complex for me. I'll wait for Aqua. We also could ask Sean, ÜberBot doesn't seem to have problems with languages... - Chris 08:35, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


Thanks for the first message, and yes, I was going to get around to fixing the caps later tonight or tomorrow.  :) Lpzie 02:15, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I see now that "Welcome back" would have been more appropriate… :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 02:24, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, I'm getting the hang of it, at least. Pretty soon you won't have to babysit me :P Lpzie 01:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


LyricWiki_talk:Community_Portal/Archive/2009_3#Building_on_a__theme... It should go to the section. It doesn't.  Яєdxx Actions Words 09:36, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

It does now. — 6×9 (Talk) 12:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Why didn't it before?  Яєdxx Actions Words 03:39, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
[4]6×9 (Talk) 03:49, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
I can't see what you changed. I've stared at it until I went cross-eyed. ?  Яєdxx Actions Words 22:17, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
It doesn't show a difference, even though I reduced the pagesize by 1 byte. What does that tell you? — 6×9 (Talk) 23:35, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Give up.  Яєdxx Actions Words 23:53, 21 July 2009 (UTC) P.S. Chris's "Wikibyer" prrogram is excellent. Make sure you download it. It's only very small.
I'll give you a last hint. Compare the link above (the one in your first post) to the link that appears in your title bar when you click on it. (Already downloaded and tested it, surprisingly it runs on Win98, but haven't had an opportunity to use it yet.) — 6×9 (Talk) 01:30, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I still can't see what it was you done, but has it got something to do with the double underscore/first brackets..?  Яєdxx Actions Words 01:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Finally! You're still not quite there, but at least on the same planet. Here's another hint: — 6×9 (Talk) 02:02, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
You removed a space between 'a' & 'theme' ?  Ñôīέ2çяȳTalk 09:14, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
So why is Red an admin and you're not, even though you're much cleverer? Yes, that was it. When you click at the link at the top of this -ic, the two whitespaces between "a" and "theme" are collapsed into one. For some reason the section marker doesn't collapse them, so the link didn't work. (It did from the TOC though.) — 6×9 (Talk) 09:57, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
GoldcupYaaaayyyy  Ñôīέ2çяȳTalk 10:19, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Edit conflict:You removed a space between 'a' & 'theme'  Яєdxx Actions Words 09:15 15:06, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Nice try. — 6×9 (Talk) 15:17, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

New template

I made the template Template:sblock. Hopefully this makes it easier to block the spammers. Sharp eyes 21:17, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! Now why didn't I think of that…
PS. The {{REVISIONUSER}} magic word was only introduced in MediaWiki 1.15; we're still on 1.14 (in case you wondered). — 6×9 (Talk) 23:42, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
There was only one problem… ~~~ produces a complete sig (links and all), while the admin parameter just needs the blank username. When {{REVISIONUSER}} becomes available we can fix that, for now it needs a username parameter. Still a timesaver though! — 6×9 (Talk) 01:01, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I also made Template:vblock for vandals. Sharp eyes 01:24, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll add a note about both to the admin portal. — 6×9 (Talk) 02:33, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


What happened was......
(that's a double ellipsis, or ellipses, almost Chinese;))
I was perusing the Pyogenesis discography on their official site and noticed the album appeared to be called Ignis Creatio. Then stuuuffff interrupted my indecisiveness so I thought I'd leave it with you...
(I believe that's an aposiopesis;))
 Ñôīέ2çяȳTalk 22:43, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

I looked into it… Apart from their site, wikipedia, musicbrainz & metal-archives call it "Ignis Creatio" as well, while discogs, allmusic & amazon don't. To confuse matters further, metal-archives also says "This EP is also known as Pyogenesis EP" while discogs says "This EP is also known amongst fans as Ignis Creatio EP". Luckily, I found the back cover from, and the spine also just says "Pyogenesis". That would seem to be the correct title then… — 6×9 (Talk) 00:00, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


I seen you posted the page to the Grammar for page names link on my talk page and I was just wanting to make sure on the reason. Every word in a song's title should be capitalized no matter what? Am I correct? If that's so, I believe I created one page that broke that rule, but I redirected it to another page for another reason (but the page it was redirected to had all title words capitalized). If you seen I was doing other capitalization mistakes or the such, please inform me. Thanks for the page link! --Rockme2 05:32, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome! Yes, you got that right, every word needs to be capitalised, for various technical reasons. (There were two or three other pages, but I already moved them. No sweat.)
A tip: When you try to redirect a page, you might want to hit the "Show preview" button first to make sure the target page actually exists. (Unless you have the target page open too, then you can just copy & paste its title.) — 6×9 (Talk) 05:42, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Alrighty, thanks for the tip! And thanks for fixing the other pages! --Rockme2 05:46, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Rex equus ad Germaniam et multo in plus.

Dog Latin..a language? Category:Language/Constructed?  Яєdxx Actions Words 20:05, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Oi! You ignoring me or what?  Яєdxx Actions Words 03:31, 24 July 2009 (UTC) P.S. Shouldn't you be in bed? Snoring very loudly?
I was just about to answer, but then there was this edit conflict because you couldn't wait, and now I won't. So there. And I don't snore – I have very good hearing, I'd know if I did.6×9 (Talk) 03:36, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Thank you :-)  Яєdxx Actions Words 01:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Hee hee, Red, that was bad luck ;) - Chris 02:02, 28 July 2009 (UTC) Situs vi late in isset abernit.

Some Categories Needing Attention

I'm fascinated by this..(it's almost a game - lol) Great idea! I did the 2 and 3 pages earlier but now the smallest is 130. Oh and my great idea to have a Project of the Month and also to put this on the Main Page seems to be proving successful. I should have made a note what it was at the start but it was around about 2000. Now it's 1676 1556 0. (I don't know how many of those Man Machine has done though.)  Яєdxx Actions Words 03:50, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


I'm curious about the move because π represents Pi , is that the nearest character to Pi . Should f letter be 'symbol' ?  Ñôīέ2çяȳTalk 08:54, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

(And now in base 13…) Tricky, isn't it? Whether LW:PN applies here is debatable, but using Π assures the page will be found by the API. (Though a redirect would work as well…) fLetter is definitely Π though. Remember that, strictly speaking, all letters are symbols! (I just hope her next album, in 20 years or so, won't feature a song titled e.) — 6×9 (Talk) 09:12, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps she'll be more imaginative next time. Thanks. Ñôīέ2çяȳTalk 09:38, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps I shouldn't...

...but this did make me laugh (6th comment down).  Яєdxx Actions Words 12:04, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

The author obviously never saw Fawlty Towers. Don't mention the war! So what was that comment you removed? ;-) — 6×9 (Talk) 12:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Trust you..(lol) Ok to allay your suspicions I resisted the temptation to write "Maybe you haven't met enough Germans" ;) What I did, or rather what I didn't do, was I didn't put the name of the album I was referring to and so my comment didn't make much sense. I realised immediately after of course (lol - like I always do) that I needed to click on "Reply" to reply to dragannov. So I deleted my comment and redid it correctly...(as you can see). So now it is directly underneath his.  Яєdxx Actions Words 12:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC) P.S. If you want another laugh, follow the link to my YouTube page and then click on the video in "Recent Activity". Then look at the comment I wrote on that page (hee hee). PPS I've heard many better singers but nevertheless talented guy...
You replied to one of dragannov's comments… but the wrong one :-) Already seen the comment you'd left on that other page – did you really think checking out your userpage wouldn't be the first thing I'd do? Can't really watch the videos without a lot of hassle though – my CPU can just barely keep up with decoding them when I save them to HD, streaming AND decoding is out of the question. (Plus, I'd have to install Flash.) — 6×9 (Talk) 12:54, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
I best hurry up and win the lottery then ;)  Яєdxx Actions Words 11:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Multiple Languages

Is the above template the final version? Only I thought we were going on a nice yellow? Anyway, see: David Bowie:"Heroes"  Яєdxx Actions Words 11:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

It's not; I wanted to finalise TranslatedSong first and then apply the same look etc., but that took a while because people lost interest in the discussion once it wasn't about the colour anymore :-) Chris & I pretty much worked it out though, so I guess we can finalise both now. — 6×9 (Talk) 11:40, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
I think it's ready for demo now, let's apply the test-version to a page to show how it looks like. However, I think we need to outsource the English side-by-side translations, too, now. That would be better because as you said, 6, some apps using LW as source for the lyrics show some wrong behaviour when there are 2 lyric-tags. Well then, let's go =) - Chris 12:20, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


{{MultipleLanguages|artist=David Bowie|"Heroes"/en|Helden/de|Héros/fr}}

"artist" parameter is optional, as in {{Additional Albums}} etc.

If "artist" isn't required, why add it then? - Chris 21:21, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Because it is required if a song title contains a colon. In "Artist:Song:Title" the {{ARTIST}} magic word would return "Artist:Song". — 6×9 (Talk) 21:32, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Aha *bling* - thank you =) Then I'd say the Template is "insertion ready". These steps have to be done to change:
  1. Replace every {{Multiple Languages with {{Multiple Languages/Test1 (Bot)
  2. Move {{Multiple Languages/Test2}} to {{MultipleLanguages}}
  3. Update template and format of pages that use {{Multiple Languages/Test1}} to {{MultipleLanguages}}-requirements (Maybe bot)
Chris 22:54, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
#1 is a bit tricky, since some pages have ML, while others have ML/Test. I'd suggest replacing {{Multiple Languages| instead (allowing for possible whitespace before the pipe). — 6×9 (Talk) 23:05, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
*grins* Guess who has set up the template on (at?) the "other" page *inconspicuously whistles* However there are some that use {{Multiple Languages/V1}}. AfaIk this is Senv's work, he kind of did No. 1 already... But I'm not sure how the percentaged usage of those 3 possibilities is like. We have to get a rough idea to know which one of both (Test1 or V1) should be the interim page. We also could set up a temporary Category "Songs with deprecated templates" which we use first for Multiple Language and then for TranslatedSong.
One thing that comes accross my mind in this very moment I am typing: MultipleLanguage (like {{SongFooter}}, {{AddAlb}}, ...) or Multiple Language (like {{Album Art}})? TranslatedSong or Translated Song then? - Chris 23:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Doesn't really matter, because someone will create a redirect at "MultLang" anyway, and then everyone's gonna use that instead :-) It's probably better to leave out the space, since the most widely used templates (Song-, Album, ArtistFooter, ArtistHeader) don't have one either. — 6×9 (Talk) 00:13, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Looks good guys, but what to do about oddities such as the hybrid version in English-German? Can you make allowances for those please 6?
Second request: Copy this to CP?
By the way I really don't think you're right about people losing interest 6. I think they have just said all they wanted to say at that point and are just trusting that you will put all our ideas together and present finalised template for agreement/minor amendment before implementation. I know that's how I viewed that discussion anyway (and maybe similar discussions that seem to have come to a sudden halt in the past). In a nutshell it seems to me that we are waiting for you, not the other way around ;) We've all had our say. You have responded to everyone's point of view, informing what can and can't be done and why. Everyone is satisfied with your response and so don't have anything further to say. The next step is then to create! I could be wrong yes, but you know that is highly unlikely ;)  Яєdxx Actions Words 01:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
No need for allowances, just use "/English-German" instead of "/en". As for moving to CP… basic design is the same as for TranslatedSong, which was pretty much agreed upon. Not sure what would need further discussion…? — 6×9 (Talk) 09:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
You said it! Did you notice the question mark against that request? ;)  Яєdxx Actions Words 14:09, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Yep, and I thought it was a typo, because it's so unlike you – usually you're more like "CP. Now. Or else." :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 14:11, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I've moved my test version to {{MultipleLanguages}}. As far as I'm concerned it's good to go :-) I've categorised the pages using the old design, they're here and here. I still need to do the same for TranslatedSong… — 6×9 (Talk) 13:47, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I was going to update these but see ABBA:Waterloo (German Version). What is wrong here?  Яєdxx Actions Words 14:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
The question you need to ask is not "What is wrong?" but "What did I do wrong?" ;-) — 6×9 (Talk) 14:49, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
BTW, a lot of pages in those categories should use TranslatedSong instead… — 6×9 (Talk) 14:51, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I was going to do it with SandBot but seems I can't because the paramaters are different.  Яєdxx Actions Words 15:10, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Replacing them via bot probably isn't the best idea anyway, see my last post. (At least not until we've sorted out the user translations first.) — 6×9 (Talk) 15:13, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

How about waiting for TS to be ready first? Red, 6 and me (I?) (there's severe discussion about "I too" and "Me too" in class, this confused me and now I tend to mistake when I write "... and I/me" as well ._.)) started with Category:TranslatedSong. I also suggest we should combine all those different used template-versions first to one which then uses one temporary category, which (category as well as template) we can focus and work on then. - Chris 22:54, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

YouTube Icon Music video on YouTube  Яєdxx Actions Words 01:08, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Have a look:
Roadmap for ML.
Roadmap for TS. - Chris 04:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


See Help:Multiple Languages. Chris did some updating to the help page and then naturally I came along afterwards and edited it (he'll Anyways, can you cast your eye over it when you've got a minute please to check for any obvious mistakes.

The only thing I wasn't too sure about was the naming of pages with the same song title. Because although there never seemed to me to be much uniformity, instead of ABBA:Waterloo (German Version), these type of song pages have often been named Waterloo/de. Also, "Waterloo (German Version)" (German), as it appears on song page, is one too many German in my opinion ;) So wouldn't it actually be better to use the language code (i.e. Waterloo/de) for the actual page name?  Яєdxx Actions Words 21:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I changed a few things here and there, to make it clearer that it's a different thing from Help:Translations (which still needs to be updated).
I'd prefer if "/de" was used only for translations, so the two won't get muddled up in the future. Dunno what would be better though… "(de)"? "(Deutsch)" (since the English language name is already indicated in the template)? Neither of them are optimal… — 6×9 (Talk) 21:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
I think if the template converted the code to (Deutsch) that would be better than two Germans. Mind you... (rfl) ;) One thing is for sure, we certainly don't want to start confusing users by telling them to name pages in their own language.  Яєdxx Actions Words 22:09, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Or maybe we could re-order the text from "Song" (Language) to Language: "Song". German: "Waterloo (German Version)" is far from perfect, but less jarring. — 6×9 (Talk) 22:24, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Agreed. That would be preferable. You don't think "Deutsche" is a good idea then? (It would still have German Version so users would know). And looking at what you've changed on the help page I think it is now more confusing than it was. Original release is important. Preferred language could lead to edit wars. And what if more than 2? Bearing in mind that I am very good at thinking like eine dumkopf ein Dummkopf ;), can I have another bash and then you look again?  Яєdxx Actions Words 22:49, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Red: Now it was my turn to correct you *g* Have you noticed I orientated myself for the "new" article by looking at the old one and changed as few as I could? So if there have been major mistakes like paragraph-order, it's not my fault ;). Next thing is: don't you come up with multiple possibilities to name pages oO. This WON'T work, let me tell you^^. And tell me what is the "original release"?!? Don't confuse ML with TS. There is no "original", as they are all actually sung. TS have got originals and translations. Do you know what would be the best? :p Leave everything as it is. And "alphabetical" is one of those difficult things: sort "de - en - fr" or "English - French - German" or after the titles (which most likely will be like the second one in most cases)? However, those pages I formatted have not really been ordered: Japanese before English... - Chris 23:28, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Chris I was talking about what I had changed may have mistakes, not what you had changed. And yes, I could see exactly what you done. You even left the old version there for comparison which was very helpful (thank you).
The original release would be the version released first. ABBA first released Waterloo, not in their native language of Swedish, but in English.
As for alphabetical, it says on the help page: "All the pages should have the same ordering of languages in the template." Example given (N.B. alphabetically): 1st = de 2nd = en, 3rd = fr. I'm not proposing that this should change in any way.
What I did propose however was that it would be preferable if instead of the template converting "de" and displaying the English language name of "German", it converted and displayed the native language name of "Deutsche", "es" to "Espanol" (or whatever), etc.. Since you've got to admit that it does look just a teeny bit silly following "(German Version)" with "German", "(French Version) with "French", "(Spanish Version)" with "Spanish", etc.  Яєdxx Actions Words 00:47, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Have a look at it again, you changed it back to "alphabetical order"... And about language: if there was "Version" between them, I wouldn't really mind, but it's even worse. Changing is not difficult, though: change {{language| into {{#language: to use parser instead of template.
P.S.: It's "Deutsch", not "Deutsche" =). "Deutsche" is used, too, but then the word was adapted to the subject. In English, every male person is "he" (m), every female is "she" (f) and everything else is "it" (n). But in German, the words are ordered more complex. F. e. the sentence = der Satz (m), the language = die Sprache (f), the word = das Wort (n). That's why we have to use "deutscher Satz", "deutsche Sprache", "deutsches Wort". Further teaching would cause 6 to collapse so I'll leave it with that ;) But feel free to ask me to translate something for you, but on my talk page. - Chris 01:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
(outdent...obviously ;))
@6: I think we've got a breakdown in communication here. So can you interpret for me please, because I'm totally lost.
@Chris: Firstly, it seemed very much to me from your penultimate post that you was a little upset with my earlier idea to amend the template. However from the example you have provided, it now seems that you are in fact emphasizing agreement with me that this does need to be changed. (From the excellent example you have provided it is far worse than I thought too.)
Secondly, re "alphabetical", (and I'm really bemused by this) [5]. Yes, I did add "alphabetically", but can you explain how, or why you think this presents a problem?  Яєdxx Actions Words 10:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC) P.S. Thanks for the German lesson. It is a long time since I was at school ;)
OK, now I am confused, too xD I think we should leave it as it is now for the moment.
Order: See, this is what I think:
  1. As long as the corresponding templates all have got the same order, no one really cares if it's alphabetically sorted or sorted by release date or something.
  2. Usually there are not more than 3, sometimes 4 pages, so no one has to search for longer than 5 seconds to find the one (s)he was looking for. In my opinion sorting first pays off if it is difficult to find the one you need when not sorted. Sorting should save more time when searching than consuming time so sort.
  3. The pages that already use the template would all need to be resorted.
  4. If we establish it after release-dates we even have to look these up. And what if we don't know them?
  5. If you don't sort it, there cannot be a "wrong order" which has to be controlled and maybe corrected.
  6. Even a bot can add songs then (which otherwise will be impossible).
Seeing these 6 reasons it seems to be more work than profit to me. Therefore I believe it would be the best to make no further instructions than "the order has to be the same on all release-pages".
Language: I don't think it's bad or annoying, just not looking well-planned somehow. We could also use the suggestion I made for TS (see beneath the roadmap there). - Chris 11:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Alphabetical isn't nearly as important as with Category:Language/Multilingual, so I'd leave it out (keep the help page simple). If we change language to native name as suggested, this presents a further problem – alphabetise by English or by native name? (I'd be for the latter obviously, because Deutsch would then come before English!) How about we combine that with my suggestion – Deutsch: Waterloo (German Version) – to avoid two sets of brackets? — 6×9 (Talk) 11:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
@6: Much improved.
@Chris: It seemed to make sense yes, but I wish to make clear that I was never really bothered about "alphabetical order". I just wanted to know why you considered it a problem. So thanks for explanation. You made some very valid points. So "the order has to be the same on all release-pages" it is then. Yes I agree, "original release" could present a problem.  Яєdxx Actions Words 21:12, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


Can you just give the above the once over when you've got a minute please. And since you'll be very pleased to learn that I'm trying to break myself of the habit of using <div>, does using a table basically do what div does? I know you can use table for more besides, but you know what I mean.  Яєdxx Actions Words 16:37, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

"It is believed to have originated…" – but what if its origin is a proven fact? :-) I just changed the named parameter (country) to an unnamed one; less to type this way. Oh, and you don't want to use nowiki tags inside pre tags.
AFAIK everything you can do with tables you can also do with divs, and everything you can do with divs you can also do with tables. Creating actual multi-row, multi-column tables with divs is pretty complicated though, while on the other hand a table would be overkill for a simple bordered box. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. You could change the wording if you want. I just can't think how else to write it.  Яєdxx Actions Words 21:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


Why did you change {{Language}}?!? Now it's wrong again in all templates :( V6:Change The World/roman "This is the Romanized of...", before update it was "This is the Romanization of" which was perfect. However, I/we have to update all pages I already changed, but next time please notify me after you made any update. Change back to "Romanization" in {{Language}} or remove case for current=roman and update all 700+ pages using either "{{TranslatedSong}}" or "{{Language}}"? This shock is too much for me, I'm almost crying, really... I'm going to bed now, cya - Chris 19:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

DON'T PANIC! I changed it for consistency (so the category would be Category:Song Translations/Romanized, not …/Romanization) and because "This song has been translated into Romanized." looks very slightly less silly than "This song has been translated into Romanization." I'd forgotten about the #ifeq in TS, but I've fixed it now to read "Romanized version". See? All it took was three keystrokes, and all is right with the world again. (Once the job queue is through, anyway.) — 6×9 (Talk) 20:09, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh dear 6, perhaps we should just discreetly leave the room and go and do some more to the Eurovision page... Яєdxx Actions Words 21:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Or maybe take care of this… Maybe we should take a leaf out of Bill Gates' book and ask for confirmation every time someone clicks on one of those buttons. — 6×9 (Talk) 21:34, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
What's all that about then, Links title??  Яєdxx Actions Words 22:16, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Maybe you haven't noticed it yet, but there's this toolbar with all those buttons above the edit box… — 6×9 (Talk) 22:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Aaah..Well obviously I didn't know because I've never done it ;). If they were in a category I could get rid of by bot (I think)  Яєdxx Actions Words 22:34, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Green check  Яєdxx Actions Words 22:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I had wondered where they were all gone suddenly… — 6×9 (Talk) 22:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm off to Eurovision now...see you later ;)  Яєdxx Actions Words 23:01, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Misunderstandings, Apologies and Sleep

Hey there... Sorry, I think you got something of my tiredness yesterday. I didn't sleep 30 hours before (I updated templates^^) and yesterday evening it seemed to me that I have update all TS-pages using "roman" in any ways because of the changes. Does LW update changes in templates automatically? - Chris 13:38, 31 July 2009 (UTC) Sorry again

No worries. You should see me when I haven't slept for 30 hours – it isn't pretty! Yes, when a template is changed, all pages transcluding it are updated automatically. (Though it might take some time, depending on the number of pages. After changes to Song or -Footer the job queue took about a week to go back to zero!) That's actually one of the two reasons why templates are used in the first place. You're clever, you can work out the other one yourself :-)6×9 (Talk) 13:59, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Okay, if I had known that yesterday I wouldn't have got any reason to be upset. I thought I had to purge all pages by hand (as I do whenever I change my subpage-templates). And I can think of three reasons.^^
  1. Because it's easier to maintain. Looking at what we are doing now it's easier to apply a category or something or have a look on "what links here" to find all matching pages.
  2. You can be sure all pages are formatted exactly the same way.
  3. If every page would contain tons of HTML the page-sizes would be a hundred times bigger than with {{TranslatedSong|de|en|fr|sv}}.
Could you do me a favour though? I uploaded Jenniffer Kae's Album Art (can't link directly to it because Wiki will turn it into the picture^^). Fair use requires a low resolution, but I think mine is high resolution (580 × 573 px). I've got a copy in 200 × 198 px on my PC, but if I upload it before the page was deleted the old file will stay on the server as file-history, won't it? But I know if the page is deleted properly there won't remain any copies, so could you please delete the page before I upload the low-resolution file? - Chris 14:59, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Low resolution means no more than 500x500 px, but slightly bigger files are tolerated as well, so you can leave it. The bit about deleting is only half-true: deleted stuff is still on the server, but regular users (non-admins) don't have access to it anymore. Oh, and you can link to files the same way you do to categories, by prefixing them with a colon (like this). — 6×9 (Talk) 15:06, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Ahhaa =) Well, is it slightly bigger? It's about 33% bigger ;) - Chris 15:46, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
You mean, 16% (width) + 15% (height) add up to ~33%? Where do they teach that sort of math? (Alright, I get it, 33% more area.) It's within the limit, but only just so. I'm still required to give you a stern look for appearances' sake, so consider yourself looked at sternly :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 16:20, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
What do you mean by "appearances' sake"? And "I am required" = "I want to" or "I am wanted to" - Chris 16:52, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
I was just kidding! ("keeping up appearances" = "den Schein bewahren", "required" means something like "verpflichtet" in this context.) — 6×9 (Talk) 17:03, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Hee hee. You will get used to us Chris, I promise. Me and 6 are always joking around, so if something we say doesn't sound quite right, always consider that it might be a joke.
And please...
Zzz more!!
 Яєdxx Actions Words 12:41, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Hehe, I have not much time to sleep, there's always enough work and friends around xD However it might seem I do not sleep at all, but that is because I am not really nocturnal and not really the opposite of nocturnal. My rhythm is longer than 24 hours, so every 2 weeks it has wandered completely around the clock^^. Not a thing in summer-vacations, but pretty much getting on your nerves in school time ;) - Chris 13:56, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I've got this on my userpage Chris: {{Userboxes/Nocturnal}}  Яєdxx Actions Words 16:33, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah I know (this is the only reason why I know the word "nocturnal", but as I said above I am not really one to call nocturnal. I am often awake at night-time, but I am also often awake at day-time. Yesterday I went to bed around midnight and I stood up at 11 a.m., tonight I'll go to bed much later and I'll stand up many hours later, it always changes as my day is about 36 hours long (24 hours awake, 12 hours sleep). Tonight I am gonna categorize files (and do this Makedocian thingy without a bot, costs much fewer time than fumbling with cmd questionmarks ;)) - Chris 21:20, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
That's seriously weird! I often thought it would be better if days were 25 or 26 hours long preferably coupled with 6-day weeks, because the weekends always seem so far away…, but 36 hours!? Are you sure you're human? ;-) — 6×9 (Talk) 21:30, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm, now that you say it... ;) By the way, now you are nocturnal, too. *grin* Your talk-page is now in the category. This woman is the reason for your sleepless nights, huh? :P - Chris 21:35, 2 August 2009 (UTC) No matter how many hours there are, the physical day won't be any moment longer than now. Time is human-made...
Yes, Red has caused me many sleepless nights – though not necessarily for the reasons she fantasises about imagines ;-) That's not true, actually – time units are human-made, time isn't; and the earth's rotation is actually slowing down, in 100 million years or so we'll actually have 25h days!6×9 (Talk) 21:42, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Well, at least one thing to look forward for ;) - Chris 21:43, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
…like me getting enough sleep so I don't do silly stuff like using the word "actually" three times in one sentence without noticing… — 6×9 (Talk) 21:48, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Have a good night then^^ - Chris 22:16, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

6 makes excuses for shirking ;)

(This is an obvious outdent) I decided to go the whole hog and give it a sub-heading (lol)

Well you haven't been on much today. It's basically just been me and Chris rattling around. So if you haven't been sleeping, what have you been doing? Enjoying the sunshine? Inventing a new musical instrument, perhaps? Yes, I do know a thing or two about prog rock - Phil Collins is my best mate and I have friends and relations in Canterbury ;).

Talking of which, I was watching King Crimson, Caravan, Wishbone Ash, and lots of other prog rock bands on TV last night. (Jealous? haa haa) We are fortunate to have a good selection of programmes here unlike the US, who, by all accounts, have lots of channels but not much in the way of quality/variety.

Well whatever you have been doing, I certainly hope you're not slacking, only your in-tray is piling up with requests to update help pages (Chris) and to improve the explanation on a particularly confusing template page (me) ;)

Changing the subject completely, I watched a very interesting documentary earlier about Philippe Petit's high-wire walk in 1974, between the twin towers and the World Trade Centre. Now that's what I call insane!

 Яєdxx Actions Words 22:36, 2 August 2009 (UTC) P.S. Did I ever tell you that because of my superior knowledge of editing, html, web design and all related stuff *cough* cough*, I got offered a job by a rock star? Well his manager "actually" rfl. You really should email me you know. You'll be sorry you didn't when I go ;)

You might not have noticed, but yesterday was Saturday. I met up with someone I hadn't seen in quite a while, and it got pretty late (or early). With "rock star" you probably mean "soon-to-be ex-rock star"? Because I can't imagine any career surviving your html skills ;-) — 6×9 (Talk) 23:06, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Waah now I've been shocked xD It's 01:14 in my timezone, so it's Monday here, and I thought "yesterday was saturday? oO I must have missed out anything important" - Chris 23:14, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
As long as my sleeping patterns are relatively normal (i.e. I'm not awake all night and sleep during the day), the old day ends for me when I go to bed (even if it's past midnight) and the new one starts when I get up. Plus, I didn't want to confuse Red any further… women and numbers, you know :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 23:19, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
*whistles conspicuous inconspicuously* :D - btw: Македонски & Русский are empty. - Chris 23:40, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
I turned him down. Priorities e.g. court cases, etc. - yes, important stuff ;).
Talking about television reminded me of another strange experience I once had and do you know there's nothing weirder than sitting at home watching TV with a rock star (yes a different one - lol) while he drinks his coffee and gives away intimate details about all his equally famous pals as their faces appear on the TV. Now this rock star you may even have heard of, he (like the other one) has got his own page on wikipedia. It's this guy.
And then of course there was that time backstage, after a gig, that I made Angus Young laugh... ;) You improved that explanation yet? Rfl  Яєdxx Actions Words 02:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Aha, so you're a groupie after all! My suspicions are confirmed!
Maybe, if I had the faintest idea what template you're talking about in the first place, I could see about changing the documentation from plain English to Red-compatible-but-still-making-sense-to-normal-folks English… — 6×9 (Talk) 03:05, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Rfl@groupie. No, it is just my life (lol).
Template:Translation/doc. I garbled something in the edit summary for you not to make sense of ;)  Яєdxx Actions Words 03:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Translations - Things to Consider

Okay, it was easier to re-edit the page than to explain. Please check each change carefully and correct where necessary. I think I understand this correctly, but any mistakes I've made will obviously highlight this. Help:Translations  Яєdxx Actions Words 12:45, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Now with regards to the Template:Translation/doc page:
Original song pages where this template is used can be found in Category:Translation on Song Page.
Including this sentence makes it sound as if the template should be used on original song pages. Particularly if people don't read the first couple of sentences and just skip to the end.
Also, please look at the note I added to the category page. And if this is right, shouldn't this category be made a subcategory of Category:Requests For Edits ??
Finally, take a butchers at the changes I've made on the two subpages for this song: "Candy Pop". The reason I changed the order is because on the subpages we should be giving predominance to the translation. After all this is what it says in the template ;)
I also think that it might prove helpful, certainly during the transitional stages, to emphasise the "original lyrics" by including this above the lyrics. Just as there is "English translation", "Original lyrics (Kanji)". Bearing in mind that many users have become very accustomed to adding translations to original song pages, whether the song had been released in a different language or not. If it retained the same title they just added the translation directly to the existing song page.
What do you think? Better, yes? Or should we ask in CP what they think?  Яєdxx Actions Words 17:01, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
This is the template to create a translation side-by-side with a copy of the original lyrics on translation-subpages. Usage: ... Pages that are still using this template on an original page because the translation was not yet moved to a subpage, can be found in Category:Translation on Song Page.
Chris 20:51, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Well at least I know I got that bit right. Thanks for confirmation Chris.  Яєdxx Actions Words 23:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 ;) This text also was an improving-suggestion for Template:Translation/doc. Help-page: "N.B. Please only submit original translations." - What are original translations and what are non-original ones? I thought they were all user created and not by the artist? - Chris 04:08, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Re: original translations, there was this occurence (you might also want to dig through Sean's talk archives to find his response to Echo's query on the matter). As for the rest… things are a bit chaotic here ATM nothing bad, though… the opposite, actually so I'll leave you two to work this out for yourselves. Later, when I have more time, I'll try to fix the resulting mess :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 04:49, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Red, did you hear that? 6 offers you and me a complimentary ticket. Big Smile - Chris 05:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
@6: "...things are a bit chaotic here ATM..." put her down 6 ;) Still wondering why I was made admin? Or have I now convinced you that it isn't just because I've got a pretty face? Haa haa  Яєdxx Actions Words 08:51, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
@Chris/6: Re: original translations, If we didn't have a clue what that meant then how can we expect anyone else to? Let alone abide by this? So it's either got to be better explained to be effective, or removed from the page. I think removed would be best because I'm sure it wouldn't qualify as a disclaimer in a court of law. Besides, if someone does own the copyright and objects to us using their translation, they have only to ask and we will remove. Like Freckleface did. Just the same as with song lyrics. Mmm...maybe we should find the page that includes info about the copyright of songs and include a note about owning the copyright to translations there.
Yes Red, another excellent idea.
Thank you. I'll do it later.
 Яєdxx Actions Words 09:59, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


6, these are the pages you need to look at:

I think that's all the meddling I've done today and I don't intend doing anything more. Please amend/correct, etc. as necessary. Яєdxx Actions Words 00:38, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Do we actually need L2 headers above each translation? I mean, if you don't even recognise the language, why are you looking at the translation in the first place? — 6×9 (Talk) 04:30, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Mmmm...dunno. I like that it states the language of the original song, since this isn't actually stated anywhere asides from down the very bottom of the original song page. This could also prove helpful (by way of emphasizing), particularly during the transitional stages. Is that your only thought (and I didn't even change that - lol)? Or are you still working your way through the "improvements" I've made?  Яєdxx Actions Words 09:04, 5 August 2009 (UTC) P.S. Has she gone home yet? ;)
Fantasising again? If you hadn't noticed, I did make a few changes to the help page. The template doc is acceptable (just barely), though why it took you six edits to get there… :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 19:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Lol, because I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I can't ignore flaws (even those of my own making)? So you done away with "English translation" header then? I'm still not convinced that's a good idea.  Яєdxx Actions Words 01:16, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Agreed that original language makes sense, but that could be added after the original song title… (Though that would look weird if the original song title was in a different language than the original song lyrics.) How about:
Original (Finnish):
either Translation: or <<Transl. Title>>:
It's just that I don't think the L2 headers look too great, and I much prefer normal bold text. Original song title and translation language are already shown in the template. — 6×9 (Talk) 04:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Pro 6's table, pro translated title instead of "Translation", pro agreement on whether original is on the left or on the right side (seems to be different everywhere). - Chris 07:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
You're very agreeable today :-) As long as translations were on the original page it made sense to show them in the right column, now that they have their own pages they should be in the left one, I think. — 6×9 (Talk) 07:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm very agreeable too :-)  Яєdxx Actions Words 08:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
So the table above should be the other way round? - Chris 09:27, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Yep!  Яєdxx Actions Words 17:15, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Agreed :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 17:21, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Ok good. I've updated the template, template/doc, help and example song pages.
In the doing something occurred to me. {{TransTitle}}. It seems wrong to me to have this giving predominance to English language on original song page. Personally, I think the only place this should now be used is on translation subpage if {{translation}} is not used.
Oh, and in case you wondered why I made the translated song title kind of compulsory, if lyrics should be original, i.e. translated by the user submitting them obviously I'm a multilinguist translating all the Eurovision song pages ;), the user can just as easily translate the song title too!  Яєdxx Actions Words 23:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
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