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Service Link Status
Official site Official Site status is Unknown
MyspaceIcon mySpace status is Unknown
Wikipedia sphere Wikipedia status is Unknown
Hometown Hometown status is Done
Cover Album Art status is Done
Other Other Songs status is Not applicable
Related Artists Related Artists* status is Unknown
Genre Genre status is Unknown
Itunes iTunes status is Unknown
AllMusic AllMusic status is Unknown
Discogs Discogs status is Unknown
Musicbrainz MusicBrainz status is Unknown
Allsongs Every song is at least StarIconGreen
Everyalbum Every album is at least StarIconGreen
*) Group members and guest appearances should also be done as needed.

Verifying Eric And Clifford Doebel and their album

I tried throwing artist and album footer params (dg, mb etc.) in the artist and album page, no luck. The album and artist is listed nowhere but here on lw. There is only an obit for ErDo of Ohio... please provide any relevant clues on the pages. tia --ES (talk) 02:43, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Hi there. I was going to post a little more information about them on this talk page, so I will do that now. Eric Doebel runs a business in Clyde, Ohio. It's a greenhouse where a lot of people from around the area buy their plants. They are also a musical family, and they sell their CDs to customers.
Clifford actually died fairly recently. I'll try to find his obituary. You're not going to find a whole lot of information about them online, as they are local artists to my area, and their music is more of a hobby, and not something they do for a living. However, they do make their CDs available for people to buy. I'm not sure if they only put out Christmas CDs, or if they do them at other times, too.
I'll give you the greenhouse website. Maybe some of their CDs are available there. I did find a youtube video of someone else who has one of their other Christmas CDs. I'll post the link here as well.
Here's Clifford's obituary:
Greenhouse website: looks like maybe the music CDs are things only available at Christmas time or within the actual physical store.
Here is the youtube videos of someone else who has at least one of their other CDs:
This looks like it might be Eric's facebook page:
This is Eric's music website:
This page was created because of my listening to his music on my computer:
Here is a newspaper article talking about Eric Doebel's music: we go -- here's his first CD on AllMusic:
Here's another website with information on Eric's first CD:
Let me know if that is sufficient info to verify that Eric and Clifford Doebel exist. --Arwen4CJ (talk) 13:32, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
There is nothing about an artist called Eric And Clifford Doebel or the album page you created in your above comments and links! --ES (talk) 23:00, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
What do you want me to do?
I can send you scanned pictures of the CD, the CD back cover, the CD front cover, and each side of the CD case? Or a picture of them taken with my digital camera.
You could also rename the pages to say "Eric Doebel" instead, since Clifford died, and Eric has recorded things under his own name by himself. All the above links that I sent are about Eric Doebel or Clifford Doebel. I'd be okay with having the pages renamed "Eric Doebel" and having the Clifford Doebel song be featuring Clifford Doebel. Would that make things easier?
I could also send an e-mail to Eric Doebel and ask him to e-mail you proof that he made the CD with Clifford Doebel.
So let me know which of the above you'd like to do. Thanks. --Arwen4CJ (talk) 23:36, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
All right then. Fine. I have scanned the Season's Greetings Christmas 2006 CD front cover, back cover, CD, and side of the CD case in order to prove that it actually exists. To see the scanned images, please visit the CD talk page. It lists the direct links to the picture files.
I have also signed the guestbook at Eric Doebel's website, asking him to e-mail me some statement that the album is real, and that he did record it and sell it with Clifford Doebel.
I hope that one of these two methods will suffice in proving that Eric Doebel is real, and so is the CD that he and Clifford Doebel recorded together. Thanks. --Arwen4CJ (talk) 01:04, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
Albums: Albums held in private collections or produced in limited quantities for local markets, or only available thru bit torrent and the like, with no valid publicly available reference, even if attributed to well known artists, will be removed from lw. That is the purpose of the album footer params.
Artists: {{ArtistHeader}}, {{ArtistFooter}} and {{ArtistInfo}} are for identifying the artist. Hometown/state/country would have to come from other sites (mySpace/wikipedia/mb/am etc.), we do not rely on individual editors' personal knowledge of supposed artists, even if an editor claims to be the artist.
It would be a good idea to properly identify the album and artist pages that you have created, using publicly available sources. tia --ES (talk) 01:13, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
Ok. My fault then. I created this page a long time ago, and I was trying to cerify all the songs on it. I didn't realize that you didn't want artists and/or albums that were only available in local markets or in limited quantities. Since that is the case with both this artist and the album, you have my permission to delete the artist page, the album page, and all of the songs now.
Most of the album pages and artist pages that I have created do have publicly available sources, and yes, I am trying to include those as I edit song pages, and album pages. I'm trying to do the song pages first, then the album pages, and then any info on the artist, per your directions to me earlier.
Thank you for pointing all of this out. Some things become lost in the document pages. I have been trying to follow them. However, sometimes I miss some things, besides the fact that I created both this album page and the artist page early in my days on this site.
I'm so sorry for the trouble--Arwen4CJ (talk) 01:30, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
Eric Doebel makes music since at least 2005 when he put out his debut that he produced in a professional manner. In 2009 he released another album on his own. Arwen made pictures of this particular CD with the "artists" on the cover and gave Youtube links to songs off of it. That seems rather valid to me in all honesty. Granted, "music by" doesn't necessarily mean it's the official artist's name but then it's better to rename the page to "Doebel" and list this CD as an album instead of completely deleting it.
Saying that CDs for a 'local market' get deleted on LW is something that is fairly new to me. Where does it say anything like that on LW? As far as I know LW says pretty much the opposite directly on the start page? 'Limited quantity' also applies to pretty much every CD especially any self-produced and self-released CD/EP out there and I could name at least a few that are still represented on LW. That statement really confuses me. Also Eric Doebel's albums from 2005 and 2009 are for sale on Amazon under the name of Doebel. And according to there are at least two other listeners besides Arwen who listened to this particular CD in question and happen to have a account. Again: its existence seems quite valid to me only the artist's name is debatable and should be changed to just Doebel. At least that'd be my vote as it seems more appropriate.
Otherwise we should be more consequent in deleting EPs and Demos as well. Or special holiday Singles, or bands that were active before Web 2.0 in general. -MusicAddict (talk) 03:09, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
As long as there are publicly available references for artists and albums, all is fine.
The matter of redundant releases that duplicate existing tracks on studio albums is because we are not a discography site, external sites linked on the Artist pages cover complete discographies from as far back as wax cylinders. cheers --ES (talk) 05:25, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, MusicAddict. I wasn't aware that he listed his stuff under "Doebel" on Amazon, but that makes sense, given the fact that on his website he goes by Doebel, as that wasn't what was listed on the cover or the actual CD. Cool. So then, I'm perfectly fine with the artist page and the CD being renamed to "Doebel."
And, yes, there are at least two other people on lastfm who listen to the 2006 Christmas CD. That's one reason I posted the link to the lastfm page. So a page rename would be fine with me. --Arwen4CJ (talk) 12:27, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
You may wish to review this discussion. It applies to every artist and album on site, just like Bernard. hth --ES (talk) 03:23, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
Huh? I visited the link you sent me, and it was about a question I asked you when a random guy edited one of the pages I was following. So I'm completely confused. What exactly do you want me to take notice of? What is the "it" in the "it applies to every artist and album on the site. And what does Bernard have to do with Steve or Eric And Clifford Doebel, other than these were all pages that were created by me?
If you are making a general comment about me needing to list more information about artists and albums that I create -- I am working through all the pages I am following. I'm editing song pages first, and then album pages, and then I will post any information that I find on an artist on the artist talk page. I created all these pages months ago, and I'm working through them. You told me you wanted me to complete the song pages of a particular artist, and then the album pages of that same artist, and you wanted me only to work on one artist at a time. So that is what I'm trying to do.
I'm working on Casting Crowns right now because of the issues that we've had with Eric And Clifford Doebel. I will come back to Eric And Clifford Doebel once I have taken care of the easier artists to do.
So if that wasn't the message you were trying to send, then please tell me what it is you want me to get off of your talk page, and explain what "it" is when you said "it applies to every artist and album on this site." That way I can know what you're talking about, and can know what you want me to take notice of. Thank you. I'm confused currently. --Arwen4CJ (talk) 19:28, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
It is all about external refernces: How do we know a song/album/artist is valid? from external references, not because it exists on lw, but because we have a ref from an external site e.g. Bernard (see footer links on his page) or the artist called Steve (see links on his page).
A simple google search tells anyone that the album and artist in question only exist on lw and nowhere else, so we need external refrences; this is a general comment about all artists and all album pages on lw, even those imported by bots from elsewhere which are still waiting to be checked and validated by a human being.
If you are still confused, just refer to my original post on this page. hth --ES (talk) 20:57, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for the clarification. And like I said, I am working through the pages that I'm watching, going one artist at a time. I will get to these lesser known artists and post the information that I know of them on their talk pages. Then you or someone else can arrange that information in the "proper" way.
Which is why I tried to provide links to my local newspaper to show who Eric and Clifford Doebel were. I assumed that a newspaper would be valid evidence of their existence.
I also found Eric's music website, which I provided a link to above.
I have no problem redirecting these pages to another name. (Doebel) or (Eric Doebel), rather than using the Eric And Clifford Doebel name. Eric Doebel, by himself, has made several CDs that he has sold. I provided the AllMusic link to one of them. The newspaper article that I linked above refers to it as well.
I also have the physical CD. If necessary, I can upload the whole thing to youtube and make a video showing that I'm actually playing the CD to prove that it is real. I can also provide pictures to show that it is real.
But I can look more on the Internet to look for more stuff by Eric Doebel, but this will all take a lot of time. That is why I have decided to do the harder artists/albums last....seeing how much trouble Eric And Clifford Doebel has been.
So, since I know that Eric Doebel has recorded under the name "Doebel," as MusicAddict has pointed out, would it be okay with you if I redirected everything that is listed under Eric And Clifford Doebel to simply Doebel? "Doebel" at least has an AllMusic link, and yes, I am 100% certain it is the same artist. (The newspaper article mentions the name of the CD in the AllMusic link.)
As I said, I know that at least two other people besides me have the same Christmas CD that I do because there are two other listeners on lastfm.
So, shall I create a Doebel page, and redirect all this there? Does that sound reasonable to you? I will not redirect it unless I hear back from you. --Arwen4CJ (talk) 21:25, June 1, 2013 (UTC)