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LyricWiki talk archive for Community Portal
<< 1st June - 31st August 2008 1st September - 9th October 2008 10th October - 13th November 2008 >>
September 2008

Watchmen Project

I'm consolidating the Watchmen Motion Comics into a DVD for myself. I've been looking for a song for the main menu but run out of ideas so I'd thought I'd ask the people that know music (uz guys) for help. I'd like to have appropriate (circa 1985) electronica or industrial song or loop for the main menu. The song should have a short running time (< 3 minutes) or a well defined section that can be looped. Lyrics should be minimal. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

P.S.: The Smashing Pumpkins:The Beginning Is The End Is The Beginning is looped in the trailers menu so that's out.

   Djp    my talk  •  my contributions  •  Rorschach for President    21:38, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Pink Floyd:A New Machine (Part 1) from 1987? I tried finding something more perfect, something that could encompass the entirety of Watchmen, but couldn't. I don't think it's possible. Something about the haunting, ominous feeling of this song and the bit about I have always looked out from behind these eyes seems to fit, however. And it's less than 2 minutes in length. (You could always look into some Art of Noise tracks, too. Crusoe, One Earth, maybe a part from Instruments of Darkness...something like that.)
As someone that in 1985 was buying Watchmen issue by issue as it came out, the movie trailer gave me freakin' goosebumps. Every visual was absolutely perfect. Those 2 minutes were better than the Dark Knight movie that came after. Just had to share. :-]    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   22:44, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Can ÜberBot or some other bot scan more sites?

e.g., for Russian/Ukrainian lyrics: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18]... I'm tired of typing and reviewing by hand :( The Other Saluton 02:24, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

Why isn't the site integrated with Wikipedia?

The same search engine, the redirect tags etc. would be very useful, as well as a template on Wikipedia: "The lyrics of this performer are on LyricWiki"... The Other Saluton 02:40, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

Perhaps you should bring this up on our page on Wikipedia (LyricWiki)? I've added links to us on some pages (White & Nerdy). Wikipedia has it set up so you can link to like this LyricWiki:Page_on_LW (see the above-linked White & Nerdy footer for an example). --Aquatiki - T - E 04:19, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

Artist listing question

Hi folks. I'm pretty new here, and I'm wondering about a... titling policy, I guess. If two artists release an album together, what should you do for "artist"t? Should you make a new page for the two together? What I'm wondering about specifically is the album "Country E.P.", which is by both Anaïs Mitchell and Rachel Ries. It would probably be most convenient if you could get to this album from both artist pages, but I don't know if there's a way to do that. Advice?

Thanks {{--Underwater 17:21, 17 September 2008 (EDT)|Underwater}}

I'm not quite sure I have the question understood correctly, but I'll attempt an answer. If both Anaïs Mitchell and Rachel Ries have contributed to this "Country E.P." and it is a joint release from both of them, there are kind of two options.
  1. Name the page Anaïs Mitchell/Rachel Ries:Country E.P. (2008) and have a separate artist page for Anaïs Mitchell/Rachel Ries. (see for example Kaiser/Mansfield, which is a similar case)
    You can make a link to the Anaïs Mitchell/Rachel Ries page on each individual artists' page.
  2. Name the page Country E.P. (2008) and use the "split" parameter on the album template. Then just link this album from both artists' pages.
    Note that the Template:Album documentation says: "The album template also accepts the paramater |Split = |Split2 = |Split3 = , for split releases. However, this parameter is now little used, since such releases should now be entered on the collaboration's artist page."
    So it seems the preferred method is method 1.
Hope this helps! --WillMak050389 18:26, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
PS: sign your talk page posts by placing --~~~~ at the end of your posts. Thanks!
Just a note that I edited the links to removed extra spaces and to add the year of release. Also, the press release for the album calls it a split album, so using the second option, with the split parameter would likely be best. If it is truly a split album, which the press release isn't totally clear on. If Anaïs Mitchell only appeared on the two songs she wrote and Rachel Ries only appeared on the two songs that she wrote as well as the two appearing together on the covered song. If they both appeared together on each others songs, then the first option really should be used. There...clear as mud.  :-]    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   23:27, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
Thanks for the info. They both perform on every song on the album, so I guess I should make a new artist page? Since this one 5 song record is the only thing they've released together, I wasn't sure if that would be right. Also, as far as putting the link on their individual pages: What would be the best way to do that? Thanks again.--Underwater 17:21, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
For the link on each individuals' page, it should go under a "Related Artists" section or a "Member Of" section. See Glenn Kaiser or Richard Wright for examples. --WillMak050389 23:05, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
Alright, I think I've got it done how I understood you. Thanks. --Underwater 17:00, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Bad response data from getAlbum()

The web service's getAlbum() method doesn't work. No matter what parameters i pass in, i always get the same (wrong) data back. It's always this:

- results {Dimensions:[5]} object[]
[0] "Staind" object {string}
[1] null object
[2] "Chapter V" object {string}
[3] 2005 object {int}
+ [4] {Dimensions:[12]} object {string[]}

Why is that?

— The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.144.99.106 (talk).

lol, SOAP is (still) Staind...
	call soap {
		method name:"getAlbum", 
		method namespace uri:"urn:LyricWiki#getAlbumRequest", 
		parameters:{
			year:1969, 
			artist:"Pink Floyd", 
			album:"Atom Heart Mother"
		}, 
		SOAPAction:"urn:LyricWiki#getAlbumRequest"
	}
	-->	{
			artist:"Staind", 
			album:"Chapter V", 
			|year|:2005, 
			amazonlink:"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&tag=motiveforcell-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&path=¬
http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2FB0009X777W%2Fsr%3D8-1%2Fqid%3D1147400297%2Fref%3Dpd_bbs_1%3F%255Fencoding%3DUTF8", 
			songs:{
				"Run Away", 
				"Right Here", 
				"Paper Jesus", 
				"Schizophrenic Conversations", 
				"Falling", 
				"Cross To Bear", 
				"Devil", 
				"Please", 
				"Everything Changes", 
				"Take This", 
				"King Of All Excuses", 
				"Reply"
			}
		}

getAlbum() is still br¬ok¬en ∃cho⚡ierr∀ () 03:34, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Song by two artists

I've only been using LyricWiki for a few days, so please bear with me if I'm missing something that has already been discussed. I've looked the help pages over and didn't notice anything on this topic, and I noticed that there was a similar post about an album here on the talk page.

I'm adding new album information for T.I., whose album will be released at the end of the month. One of the songs ("Swagga Like Us") has been released as a single by both T.I. and Jay-Z, and will appear on both albums. How should I title the page? It would seem like the easiest solution would be to create the page for one artist and simply redirect from the other artist's page, but I don't know if this will prevent the lyrics from being retrieved by some application...

This is also complicated by the fact that the song will be listed as "Swagga Like Us (Featuring Jay-Z, Kanye West & Lil Wayne)" AND "Swagga Like Us (Featuring Kanye West, Jay-Z & T.I.)", depending on the album. Also, the singles released might have slightly different names, and may have been released as "Swagger Like Us" in some places. The single release part can be fixed later once there is an authoritative version, I assume.

Should I title the page "Jay-Z & T.I.:Swagga Like Us"? I assume that this is probably against naming conventions. For now, I've left out the link in T.I.'s artist page - I didn't want to create a page, have it be edited, and then have it deleted. --Team a 15:42, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

EDIT: Appears in iTunes Top 10 on main page, so I went with Jay-Z & T.I.:Swagga Like Us. Should I delete this post from this page, or do moderators/admins? --Team a 02:06, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

Glad you resolved this. No leave the post. It will be taken care of in the normal course of events.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 05:19, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

Deletion template

I've been flagging a lot of songs that appear under an artist's "Other Songs" section for deletion. Almost all of them are duplicates of songs appearing under albums, but usually including a misspelling, probably due to being generated by a bot from a site that didn't spell the song title right. Is there any chance of a new category entry (like vandalism/spam) for duplicate pages? Typing in {{deletion|This page is a duplicate of [[Artist:Real_Title]]}} is taking a long time, and there will probably be a lot of pages that need to be deleted. Also, will a bot just be regenerating these pages after they are deleted? --Team a 16:54, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Yes you are right to think that a bot would simply regenerate these songs if they were to be deleted, which of course is why we don't delete them. Instead we redirect them to the correct song page.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 20:26, 18 September 2008 (EDT)
I removed delete requests and redirected the duplicates and misnamed songs, probably 80%. Good lookin' out, thanks. --Team a 02:09, 19 September 2008 (EDT)
Laborious task I know but worthwhile, so thanks for doing that.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 04:54, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

Server upgrades

(Slipping in at the top, this is a recent post however). We're upgrading the site to the newest stable version of MediaWiki and adding another server (to make a total of 5) right now. Please be patient as there will be some downtime and inevitably some problems with converting to the new version that we'll have to iron out. On the bright side, next week the site should be much faster!
Thanks for your patience,
-Sean Colombo (talk|contribs) 22:20, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

Covers

What is done with songs that are recorded by a lot of people?

Frank Sinatra recorded almost every pop love song that had been written before he retired. Sometimes his version is better known than anyone else's version but sometimes not. For example, "Love's Been Good To Me" was written and first recorded by Rod McKuen, Glenn Yarborough recorded it and Sinatra recorded it.

"Abilene" was written by Al Grossman and Bob Gibson. Gibson recorded it a couple of times, Yarborough recorded it. J. D. Loudermilk recorded it. When I stumbled on a site that had the song's history, I believe it was related to Loudermilk, a couple of years ago the song had been recorded over 200 times by over 200 different artists/groups. There are variations in the spelling of the title.

JimCubb 13:03, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

If the song is a cover, insert: {{Cover}} on the cover song page and on the original song page insert: {{Cover2}}.
The original recording of the song is the original. So in the case of Frank Sinatra:Love's Been Good To Me the {{Cover}} template should be added to the song page linking to the original recording, e.g. Rod McKuen:Love's Been Good To Me. This can be repeated for any artist who has covered the song, e.g. Johnny Cash:Love's Been Good To Me. Where you feel that a song requires further information, you can always incorporate this in a section beneath lyrics (like we do for detailing credits) and head this "Additional Song Info". Hope this helps.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 17:15, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

Eliminating Repeats from Other Songs

I'm pretty much a newbie to the site, but I've done some major editing for the artist Sloan. From my understanding, there is a bot that adds the song pages connected to the artist under the Other Songs heading, when they are already associated with and album, due to improper capitalization or incorrect but similar song titles. In this instance, what's the best thing to do? Mark the repeat pages for deletion and edit them out of the Other Songs category? --Onlytellseternity 18:04 23 September 2008 (EDT)

Hi there. Yes your understanding is correct. As for the best thing to do? Well we don't delete these incorrectly titled songs because the bot would simply re-add them. What we do is redirect them to the correctly titled page, after which the incorrectly titled songs can be removed from the Other Songs list.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 23:04, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Policy on Uploading Info for Unreleased Material

Is there any specific policy for uploading lyrics/album art for future releases, either because the tracklist/several of the songs or album art have been released, or the album was leaked? --Onlytellseternity2 16:32 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Not officially. If a good online reference can't be found, the page might get deleted, but if the album is on the artist's web page or available for pre-order from Amazon or the like, then it's perfectly fine to add it to the artist's page. Usually adding a "To be released October 13, 2008." note above the track listing on the artist's page is helpful.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   03:23, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
October 2008

Post more lyrics

(I'm new and not sure I'm doing this correctly. I've assumed that my talk pages are for anyone who specifically wants to address ME, privately, or, read something I've posted to there. So, I just jumped in and edited the main Community portal, adding my new topic. Which is:)
I'm still using Windows Media Player to play .mp3 files. There's a lyrics plug-in available for MP 11. When you run it, if anyone has taken the time to type lyrics for a given song, they'll show up in your Now Playing pane.
Of course, some lines are hard to figure out by ear. And, well, some people are idiots. So, when I encounter misquoted lyrics there, I use the handy EDIT link and fix 'em.
My first official (non-annonymous) post, for instance: I saw that it was listed in RED, so, I opened Notepad and WMP and prepared to transcribe. But, the lyrics came up! So, I made minor edits, cut and pasted, and...voila!<br/) Now, I'm not shillin' for Microsoft®, but, a couple of years ago, I had MusicMatch® Jukebox, and, you still had to type-in lyrics that weren't already part of the file itself. I dunno if MM works that way. I'm just saying that it's easy and way less time consuming.
So...Post more lyrics! — The preceding unsigned comment was added by !elbakrameR® (talkcontribs).

PS: sign your talk page posts by placing --~~~~ at the end of your posts.
From what you have written, you may be interested in this. I originally found it on this page >>>LyricWiki:Plugins. (I also like the Last.fm script too.)  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 15:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

A Modest Proposal

Assume for a moment that you found this site through a Google search for a lyric and you were intrigued by the concept. You wander around a little and find that there are categories that have needs. One of those categories seems to be within your abilities to assist so you go to the category and open the talk page for the category to learn what has been done and what has been decided should not be done. There is nothing there that is at all useful! (In some instances there is not even a Talk page.)

I spent many hours wandering around User Talk pages after I put a request for help on my Talk page reading discussions about one issue. Okay, I should have put my question on the unhelpful Talk page but I didn't. I should have created a Talk page but I didn't.

I am not pointing any fingers here because, as I noted above, this is partly my fault as I did not use the Talk page of the category. However, it would be really helpful to those who stumble in here, many of whom are at least acquainted with WP, to find the discussions of issues on the relevant Talk pages.

Does that make sense?

JimCubb 05:59, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I think I understand what you're saying but I need some specifics. There are some unfortunate things that arise because we have a small community (as compared to Wikipedia): I (I don't know about the other admins) don't usually remember to check Category:Looking for help often, putting questions on any talk page is usually useless (maybe half of these go answered within a reasonable time, it depends on who is watching the page). The best way to get questions answered is by pestering us admins on our User talk pages (I really don't feel pestered when I have a new message), when we get a user talk edit on our own user talk page, there is no way we can ignore it (unless we don't visit the site). So please, if you need anyone please contact me or one of the other admins. For an answer to your post above, I need some specifics as to what category and what information you need. --WillMak050389 14:22, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Scripts

I've been editing this site for a little over 2 weeks now, and I've found that I spend a lot of time doing the same task over and over on different song pages of the same album. I know there are scripts out there to manage and routinize a lot of common tasks. I'd really like to find something to add asin/itunes links to multiple pages, or rank multiple pages green instead of having them remain in the rate me category, etc. I'm not talking about making edits to the whole database, just one artist or album at a time. Does anyone have any suggestions? What do people here use for scripts? team atalkctrb @03:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

User:BotUm (my bot) is pywikipedia. So is User:SandBot and User:S2E2. It works great and has a very active developement team. --Aquatiki - T - E 05:07, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I've set one up (User:The Notorious B.O.T.) but haven't logged in using pywikipedia yet. Is there an approval process? Do I have to petition to use a bot? team atalkctrb @11:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes and yes. A bureaucrat can do that for you. User:Sean_Colombo is one. --Aquatiki - T - E 12:09, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Auto-link track listings from album pages

On Wikipedia pages regarding episode lists, there is a neat little feature that basically looks like this:

==Season 1==
{{main|Stargate Atlantis (season 1)}}
[...]
{{:Stargate Atlantis (season 1)}}<!--Dear editor: Please go to [[Stargate Atlantis (season 1)]] to edit the episode summaries.-->

When the user saves the page, in place of {{:Stargate Atlantis (season 1)}}, they see a list of the season 1 episodes "imported" from the Stargate Atlantis (season 1) page. I think it would be pretty spiffy if LyricWiki could do something similar, where on the artist page you just link to all the albums and the covers / tracklisting are automatically brought in from the album page (but not other extraneous information that is included in the album page).--Aikon- 11:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what you're talking about (though I love your example). I went to Stargate Atlantis#Plot and hit edit on Season 1. The _main_ template does nothing but make the little indented link to another template. There is no transcluded text there.
Mind you, I'm all for simplifying artist and album pages to the point where they're auto-generated. Take a look at my mock-up site for what LyricWiki could be if you used Semantic data structures. If pages could store machine readable data, then artist pages could just ask "Show me all the songs by >THIS_PAGE_NAME< sort by >ALBUM<". --Aquatiki - T - E 12:16, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I also thought Aikon was talking about transclusion, but the episode titles don't appear on the main page. I was thinking this myself, because any edit to a tracklist on an artist page has to be duplicated on an album page, including fixing tiny spelling errors (But I think maybe a bot does this... ÜberBot? Janitor?), and transclusion would eliminate that.
However, I think the reason there isn't transclusion of one onto the other is that it might be problematic for everyone but experienced users, and there seems to be a tendency on wikis (I'm thinking wikipedia here) to avoid transclusion except for templates that are well-explained. Who knows what might happen when someone doesn't understand the <include>, <includeonly> and <onlyinclude> tags? I know I still have to double-check my work on those. I am all for this kind of thing, but probably because of the awesomeness factor, not because it will necessarily reduce work or time, or willingness of very casual users to contribute.
Is there a place to discuss that demonstration you made? A project page maybe? Every time I see it, I am more curious, especially because it would help page ranking and remove some tedious tasks. I assume that upgrading to semantic data structures is difficult and would require a lot of work to ensure everything converted correctly? team atalkctrb @23:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
How very strange...because in the last week I discovered something which has since been a topic of discussion. It's a neat little template made by one of our users Pathoschild. It's only been used on one page, so I came upon it by pure chance. However, before you look and get excited (as I indeed did), please note that it cannot be used atm on LyricWiki. This is due to the problems it presents to those users retrieving lyrics via API. Nevertheless take a looky here >>>> {{List album}}. Now I've butted in I'll butt out again and leave you to continue your "techie" conversation (hee hee)  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 23:44, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Probably the discussion page of LyricWiki:Semantics --Aquatiki - T - E 23:59, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Aquatiki, you are correct in that the episode lists are not transcluded on, e.g., Stargate Atlantis#plot. However, try looking at List of Stargate Atlantis Episodes#Season 1; this is what I'm talking about, where the episodes show up on this page however they are not explicitly written out in the source, they are stored in another page. It is not the _main_ template that does this, it is
{{:Stargate Atlantis (season 1)}}
with the colon in front of the main article's name. Aikon- 21:15, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I get it. They use >onlyinclude< (as opposed to >includeonly<). That might work for simplifying the artist page, but you'd still have to do the album art by hand. Though I am, of course, in favor of total overhaul and using a system that builds the entire artist and album pages automatically (i.e. Semantic MediaWiki), I will mention this over on the LyricWiki:Administrators Portal. You won't be able to contribute, but you can watch. --Aquatiki - T - E 22:51, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
I had a feeling I had become invisible and looking on Administrators Portal I'm sure I am, because this is exactly what I was trying to tell you guys about up there ^^^^.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 00:57, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
Sorry Red, I didn't realize this was something new. This discussion has come up a few times before but never this cogently. I didn't prioritize it because I thought I knew the answer. Sorry :-( --Aquatiki - T - E 04:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
I'll let you off, only cos I like you mind http://www.xs4all.nl/~ernstmul/images/msn60/smile009.gif  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 09:52, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


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