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LyricWiki talk archive for Community Portal
<< 17th April - 31st May 2008 1st June - 31st August 2008 1st September - 9th October 2008 >>


June 2008

Underscores Removed

I'm contemplating during BotUm loose on the underscores (i.e. _'s) that are part of internal links. I think this would greatly improve the readability of the wikicode here and help prevent a lot of unnecessary horizontal scrolling. However, this would mean an edit on just about every page and take over a week (assuming I throttle BotUm). Does this seem like a good idea? For the curious, the regex I had in mind was:

\[\[(.*)_(.*)\]\] transformed into \[\[\1 \2\]\] done recursively.

Any thoughts? --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 14:31, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

It's all a matter of personal preference, but personally I hate underscores. Some people appear to love them however (goodness knows why) but I agree wholeheartedly that they do nothing to improve the readability of text/the wikicode here. I also hear what you say about it taking a week to complete, but it would certainly save a lot of time in the future for those, like me, who remove them when editing pages.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 21:06, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
It wouldn't be a week of my time: I'd just leave 'um running day and night. And every one would get an email about every single page they watch almost, since they'd all end up editted. --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 23:40, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
It is personal prefrence (and my happens to be the same, no underscores). You will probably want
\[\[(.*?)_(.*?)\]\] transformed into \[\[\1 \2\]\] done recursively.
for the regex just to be safe (use non-greedy matching) ;)
- teknomunk (talk,E,,A) 00:07, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
Alright! I hope nobody mind, 'cause I'm turnin' 'er loose! I've got a two second pause between page evals and a twenty second pause after page changes. 'Hope this is an OK server load! --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 12:03, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Excellent stuff! I can see 'she' is quite the mover. Well done you! ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 22:45, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
UPDATE! BotUm (talkcontribs) only made it to Camden before being shut down by a server error. Since Sean C. has fixed that, I've turned 'er back on, but now eliminating all underscore (without regex). The reason not to do so before was because Wikipedia links needed to preserve them. Since Kingnee1114lyrics (talkcontribs) has fixed that now, this shouldn't be a problem, right?! Let me know right away it not! --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 13:44, 5 July 2008 (EDT)

Capitalization of words

Don't know if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find any reference to this matter so I will bring it up again.

Why doesn't the site conform to rules of capitalization? Take Coldplay's new album for example. In LyricWiki it is listed under "Viva La Vida Or Death And All His Friends". Notice the words I marked in bold? They should all be lowercase. The same goes for "in", "with", "for", "a", "the", etc. (given that those words are NOT in the beginning of the sentence).

So is LyricWiki going to stay like that, or can we work towards properly capitalized artists and song titles?

From LyricWiki:Page Names:
The purpose of this policy is to have pagenames that are as uniform as possible. LyricWiki is a site that has songs, artists, and users from many different nations, which have rules for capitalization that may vary. (At times, the Artist may creatively change capitalization as well.) By breaking the capitalization rules of every nation, it is hoped that the creation of multiple variations of a page will be minimized. This way, the site won't have one group of editors working on one variation, while another group works on another and work can be more collaborative. Also, because LyricWiki is incorporated into other projects, a uniform method of creating pagenames is also necessary for coding purposes.
One of the main reasons why is so that scripts and plugins can access the content of the site in a uniform way without having to guess if it should use "the" or "The". So, unless something changes, we will most likely keep things the way they are.
Hopefully that answers your question.
- teknomunk (talk,E,,A) 19:20, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
This has been in use in Wikipedia since day 1, and thus far it worked flawlessly. How is LyricWiki any different? Besides, what are redirects for? Exactly for matters like these. Also, I was referring to English titles only. David.L 07:28, 13 June 2008 (EDT)


July 2008

SOTD noms

I need some help. Scheisster111 moved the nomination page to (redacted). Can someone move it back to where it was? EDIT: In fact, he's got a whole lot of moves to imply sexual meaning. Those need to be reverted, as well. --Cubs Fan2007 12:54, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for bringing this up. I think things are back to normal (hope I didn't miss anything).
-Sean Colombo (talk|contribs) 13:37, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
I deleted all the nasty pages he'd made (there's no reason to keep those redirects) --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 15:06, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Same title, different lyrics

Hi! Ok, now that part's done. So, I'm a wiki-noob starting to play with Stacey Kent's Artist page. I noticed in my collection that Stacey has two different songs entitled 'They All Laughed'.

Uberbot had gathered the one that starts with ''The odds were a hundred to one...'' from the album Let Yourself Go. But how I should add the different version of the song that starts with "They all laughed at Christopher Columbus...", that is on the album Love Is The Tender Trap ? Do plug-ins (iLyrics for me) generally lookup the album first, or they go straight for the track title? Thanks! Monotone 01:23, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

I have no idea how we're supposed to deal with different tracks of the same artist and name on lyricwiki, but concerning iLyrics: It just looks for artist and song title, the album doesn't matter at all. -- Chillvie 05:51, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
If there are only very slight changes, making a note below the original lyrics is a good way to go. (A second lyric section on the same song page with the changed portion(s) would also be a good addition.) If there are major lyric changes, such as added verses, a changed chorus, etc., then creating a new page with a parenthetical description [EX: (Live), (Remix), (Extended), etc.) is perfectly wonderful. If you wanted, you could even create a link between such versions. Hope that helps!  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 07:56, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
No, it's actually two completely different songs by two diferent composers! I guess there are no copyrights on song titles, and she just happens to interpret both versions. Its just one of those rare exceptions! What I think I'll do is put the name of the composer in parenthesis for both song titles, and redirect the default title to the version that appears in the most recent album. A decent tradeoff I hope. Monotone 20:34, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
I believe that this is the song you are referring to allmusic.com which was composed by George and Ira Gershwin and appeared in the 1937 film "Shall We Dance" starring Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. Just one of these versions has an added intro. And especially for you, here's a bonus track!! [1] Great film..they certainly don't make 'em like that anymore!!  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 23:07, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
Pardon me for interrupting and for my confusion, but you state that the two songs have different composers, and yet both have the same title and include the line "They all laughed at Christopher Columbus"? Are you sure they aren't just two different versions of the Gershwin song?    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   21:59, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
Well, I'll be damned. It is indeed the same song, but a different intro lyrics that got me confused ! If that doesn't look like a major case of lyrical ADD, I don't what does. Thanks Redxx & Kiefer! Monotone 23:19, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
Lol. Glad to assist :-) ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 18:20, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

Page Ranking ... FOR REAL!

moved to LyricWiki talk:Page ranking

Return references from songs to compilations

I created a compilation album (Celtic Woman (1996)). The first song is Annachie Gordon by Loreena McKennitt. That song already exists on another album, and when I put it in my list, it references the existing page (very nice). On the song page, there was a reference to the original album, and I wanted to add one for my compilation too. So I put in my line after the first one:

{ {Song|Parallel Dreams (1989)|Loreena McKennitt} }
{ {Song|Celtic Woman (1996)|Loreena McKennitt} }

The first one links back to the Parallel Dreams album, by using the artist name. But the second one tries to use it too, and doesn't get back to my original page at <http://lyricwiki.org/Celtic_Woman_%281996%29>. How can I put a compilation album on the song page properly?— The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.187.32.75 (talk).

Take a look at the song page now in edit mode. You simply needed to add the soundtrack template. I know it isn't a soundtrack, but we use this template for various artist albums.More info  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 16:37, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
Awesome. Thanks! — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dlamet (talkcontribs).

Page Rank Galore & Uncategorized Pages

So are we ready to categorize all pages? I was thinking I could either change {{Song}} and {{Album}} to say if no "star" then star=Green. That would categorize most everything at once. Or, I could have m'bot go through and add it slowly (maybe even after the unending underscore death march ends). This appears better on the surface because the bot would be necessary regardless, since artist pages don't have a template at the top to change. What do other people think? --Aquatiki - T - E 01:38, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

I was actually hoping I could bring up a thought. I think that having Category:Green Songs and what-have-you is not the best way to go about things. I say that because Green Songs and Green Artists and Green Albums would be simply so massive that it would not mean much to have that category (even the songs categories are smaller, being broken into A-Z). At least not right away, because later, that group will shrink, as the other bronze, violet, gold, and silver categories grow. While that might be a reason, it isn't the reason, which would be that I have been working on getting all the pages I can SongFooters. The way I can track these pages is if they are on Special:Uncategorizedpages. I am almost done, though, as I have 1950 left, and today alone I worked through 300 or so.
King_Nee1114 (talk pagecontributionsdeletions) 02:08, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
But I would like to see if I can convince you of that first point, to maintain no Green Categories. At least until I have a better way of figuring out how to maintain all pages having their proper headers and footers.
I think you have a good point there, King. We should work on getting a pages into the 20th century before we try to go 21st century. I'll hold off until Special:Uncategorized pages is empty. --Aquatiki 02:21, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
Thanks. I'll do what I can. Can you think of any other way that I could track these?
King_Nee1114 (talk pagecontributionsdeletions) 02:44, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
Firstly, excellent stuff Aqua! I'm glad you took up my suggestion and put notice on Community Portal main page. (Now, doesn't that look better?) Secondly, can I help KingNee (but in order to get this done as quickly as poss, I won't be filling in the damn summary...lol)?  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 04:18, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
Thank you Redxx! That'll help.
King_Nee1114 (talk pagecontributionsdeletions) 13:17, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
I only hope you are right about there being 1950, only I've already done about 100 and I'm still on letter B !!  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 15:34, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
Lol. that first 150 is all the same artist. I skipped that for the time being, and did all the smaller (one to 4 off) groups, thinking I'd come back to the big projects later.
King_Nee1114 (talk pagecontributionsdeletions) 20:59, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

An interesting bug

If you search for the URL of an image, the search page will actually display that image. Today's XKCD, for example. This isn't a major problem, but it might be a vulnerability. I tried this on a few other Wikis, but it didn't work anywhere else. 129.97.250.140 07:47, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

August 2008

New page rank wrapper

I made a wrapper for all our page rank stuff called {{Star Box}}. I remember it 'cause I always need coffee and it sounds like "starbucks". I updated the documentation at Project:Page ranking and I'm working on getting it on all appropriate talk pages before any of you read this! --Aquatiki - T - E 07:47, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

Oh! And {{Cert}} is now a three parameter function with #1 being your username, #2 is optional and is the text saying you listened and read, and #3 is the time, and should be standardized as ~~~~~ (five tildes). I changed all pages already using Cert. I also changed all talk pages to use Star Box. --Aquatiki - T - E 10:20, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

Excellent! Thank you Aquatiki!  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 12:10, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

Userboxes!

UBX Userboxes rule!!!

I've created a "policy" page LyricWiki:Userboxes as a home for information about userboxes. This awesome feature of Wikipedia is easy to duplicate here and is a fun way to advocate things without typing out a belligerent paragraph on your user page. Actually, I must give credit to PatPeter (?) who just started making them on his page, unprompted. Make more and use 'em! --Aquatiki - T - E 03:32, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

discussion on capitalisation - again...

I've got a proposal: What about having all pages under names with the current naming scheme but having different titles displayed with the "correct" (if this exists) capitalisation?

Over at Wikipedia there has always been the policy to have pagenames begin with a capital letter - but since a little while there is that {{DISPLAYTITLE:[PuT CoRrEcT SpElLiNg HeRe]}}. - Wouldn't that be a nice solution for songs that have one definitive correct spelling? (I think there should be a policy to not use the proposed technique if the capitalisation is ambiguous...)
We would keep the advantages of the current system as far as I can see (e.g. machine readability for "scripts and plugins") --Speckmade 20:14, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

Looks like that is a new-fangled gizmo! Us ludites are back on MW 1.7.1. 'Might be some time before we catch up to that. --Aquatiki - T - E 09:33, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
Adding a note to say that now that the MediaWiki version has been updated, the DISPLAYTITLE fix does work, as shown on T.A.T.u..    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   02:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Page Rank - Images

So I'm going along, upgrading my way through the Stars, typing cover = done, when I realized, "Images aren't getting verified or watched!" Is there a template we should be using on Image pages besides {{Albumcover/Upload}}? Does anyone having any objections to my making some page rank stuff for images? --Aquatiki - T - E 02:19, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

IMHO it's only natural to have album covers verified. And if it's good for the site, I don't see a problem. Just update the documentation ;) --Aikurn 11:36, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

What about the "Fair use in" thingy. Does anybody use that? How small is "low resolution"? The titles imply that the images are just being used on the Artist page, but they're on the Album one's too. Do we need that? Should it be part of the checklist for the image? --Aquatiki - T - E 12:17, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

K. Well I know I probably should, but I never include the "Fair use" statement (I think it automatically attaches it anyway.) I just use {{Albumcover/Upload}}. As for size, I think I read (or observed somewhere) image size no bigger than 600. so I always reduce mine to 599. As for page ranking images? Mmmm..I don't wish to sound negative, but I can't honestly see many being being interested in taking responsibility for those.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 12:57, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
Ah, but what if it's part of moving an album and artist up from Bronze to Silver to Gold, huh? There's some motivation! Either way, I'm trying to compile the appropriate list for anal types like me to say an image is "done". --Aquatiki - T - E 13:25, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

Notability

Hi there everyone, I was just wondering what sort of notability policies or guidelines exist on this wiki. I would like to bring some more indie lyrics to LyricWiki (they are hard to find elsewhere) and I am just wondering if they will be deleted or something awful like that. Thanks --24.71.41.185 06:08, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

I don't think that there is an official policy stated anywhere, but as long as the song has been recorded (or performed live by a recording Artist in some cases) and that recording is verifiable (sold on a website somewhere, for instance), then it won't get deleted. As long as it isn't a vanity page where someone is putting down lyrics that they've written to a song that only people at their high school have ever heard (that kind of thing... :-] ), then it's fine. We're inclusive to indie bands. In fact, we have pages for some of the indie artists that sell their music at our sister site, pedlr. com!    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   07:31, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
I for one think notability is a dirty word (I've been embittered by Wikipedia) and whole-heartedly agree with Kiefer. As long as it isn't private stuff, bring it on! --Aquatiki - T - E 07:49, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
Totally agree with the above.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 12:59, 7 August 2008 (EDT) (who has also been embittered by Wikipedia too.)
Excellent! I look forward to making contributions here :D Thank you all for your help! --24.71.41.185 18:34, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

Thank you from a newbie

I wanted to say thank you to Kiefer for the welcome to the LyricWiki community. As you all have no doubt noticed, I've already made a couple of submissions. I've also tried out the IRC channel but it seemed to be dead at that time.

RainbowDragon 18:37, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

I need help finding a song

I was in the store the other, and a song that seemed very cool and catchy. However, I don't know the title. All I can remember are two rhyming lyrics that maybe sounded like "I walk by" and "maybe I'm high." I also know that the only instrument in the song was an acoustic guitar, and that the song also seemed fairly recent (ballpark: 1990-present). Does anyone know? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Opsman666 (talkcontribs).

You could try the Google search box at the top right of this page. But "I walk by" and "maybe I'm high" didn't give me any matches, not only on this site, but not even in a regular Google search. So probably it is either very new and will appear in the search results shortly, or maybe you have misheard / misremembered the lyrics? --Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 04:15, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Policy for "guessed" lyrics?

Is there (or should there be) a policy for lyrics where a "definitive" version (booklet etc.) isn't available, i.e. lyrics that have been guessed at by listening closely (or sometimes not so closely, it would seem) to the song in question? I think it would make sense to put a disclaimer of some sort on those pages, and maybe a section for alternative hearings (like on EnoWeb), rather than have people replace previous versions with what they're convinced is the absolute truth... -- 6 times 9 16:15, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

If people don't have a definitive version (although even "definitive" versions can be surprisingly incorrect), and there is a difference of opinion, then that is what the talk page is for. There have been a couple of instances of lyric edit-wars, however, and those pages get protected, forcing discussion on the talk page. Often times, a person will create a new lyric page after listening to the song and give their best guess with the lyrics. Then they will note on the talk page that it is an "as heard" version of the lyrics and that help with the lyrics is welcome. Seems to work pretty well.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   21:16, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Wanted Lyrics

Just wanted to say that i think a requested lyrics function would make this an even more useful site. I've got many "one hit wonder" type songs in mind that i can't find on this wiki, e.g. "Home of the Brave" by The Nails (even though their bigger hit, but worse song "88 Lines..." is in the wiki)— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mitchg (talkcontribs).

The Nails - Home Of The Brave :-)  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 16:38, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Remember a Day?

Remember the days when the Album of the Week would get updated every week? Well, as some of you have most likely noticed I have updated it and hopefully can get back into the habit of doing so. The summer killed me (in a good way), I got a new job and working between my two jobs was hectic, but now I'm back at school and will hopefully have the time to continue editing here regularly. I do have one question: how do we determine the different levels for our new rating system? What makes Pink Floyd:A Collection Of Great Dance Songs (1981) (green star) worse than Sido:Ich & meine Maske (2008) or The Academy Is...:From The Carpet (2006) (gold star)? Anyway, I assume there are still some things to figure out, but I thought I'd ask. --WillMak050389 20:43, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

That was me with the green star... I moved the wikipedia links on most Pink Floyd album pages to the footer, and thought I'd add the star template while I was editing anyway. In the case of Dance Songs, I didn't check any of the info (laziness, plus I don't have that album), so I felt it inappropriate to give it more than green. There's no reason why you shouldn't upgrade it. -- 6 times 9 20:55, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
Hi Will! Nice to see you (to see you nice). Missed having you around, but guessed you was busy. KingNee's taken a leave of absence now. Moving apparently but I think he just didn't want to finish categorising the 2000 uncategorized songs http://www.xs4all.nl/~ernstmul/images/msn60/smile009.gif. Seriously though, great to have you back! Lots has been going on as you can see. I'm not the newbie any longer so someone else has got the job of cleaning the washroom now (rfl). I've also procreated (hee hee). Anyways, I'm sure you'll quickly catch up. But getting back to your question about the new Page Ranking system, I think you might find many answers on these two pages Page Ranking Policy and Page Ranking Help. We also have an Admin watering hole too now ;) ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 21:27, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

Page Ranking

We are still in the process of setting up Page Ranking, so not all pages have been ranked as yet. You will probably find some green stars on some album/artist/song pages but you need to also have the corresponding template on talk page in order to complete it to say what has been done, that you are now "watching" the page, etc. One is no good without the other ;).
I have applied the album template to Pink Floyd:A Collection Of Great Dance Songs (1981) for you to look at in edit mode. I have also spent the past half hour compiling a few Help pages that I hope will prove useful to you in the interim. These pages are very rough, they were written off the top of my head and need to be built upon, but since I have come across many pages marked by users interested in the scheme with stars, ranging from green right through to gold (yes, very pretty - lol), without there being any templates on talk pages to say what has been completed, I could see there was a need. And I figured something was certainly better than nothing ;) Help:Page ranking

 ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 23:28, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
Sweet, definitely helpful. I still feel like you're the work-horse around here... Two quick questions: Youtube links on song pages, should they only be music videos or (in the case of the current revision of Pink Floyd:Shine On You Crazy Diamond (1-5)) any video? Also, it seems we have but I want to make sure, did we finally get rid of all those bloody other songs pages? --WillMak050389 23:51, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
Other Songs pages? Not entirely...    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   00:24, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
 :face melts off: --WillMak050389 00:49, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Thank you for your kind words (I told you I wouldn't let you down :-)) I am a little worker bee, tis true, I buzz about all over the place meddling in things I know absolutely nothing about (hee hee), but as you know we all do a great job here :-)
Btw I have removed the download parameter on the Pink Floyd:Shine On You Crazy Diamond (1-5) talk page. I'm not too sure where you got it from (as it isn't included on the template on Kiefer's excellently designed Help Page), but it was decided that since it is hardly ever applicable (and therefore spoils the pretty page..lol) to make that particular parameter optional.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 08:29, 28 August 2008 (EDT)


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