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LyricWiki talk archive for Community Portal
<< June - July 2007 August - October 2007 November - December 2007 >>

Country Flags

Anyone know of a set of small flags (free ones) that we can put next to the languages on the main page?
- teknomunk (talk,E,) 00:21, 6 August 2007 (EDT)

I'm sure we could get the flags on Wikipedia (they probably all are PD); the problem we have is languages have several different countries. According to English language, it is the official language of 71 countries. --WillMak050389 02:07, 6 August 2007 (EDT)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flag_icons "These flag icons are available for free use for any purpose with no requirement for attribution." As for country-confusion - I think that generally USA/Britain=English, Germany=German, etc.. That's not a problem... I see they haven't been added yet? Oboro 11:53, 18 September 2007 (EDT)
Thanks. Those look like just the thing I needed.
- teknomunk (talk,E,) 12:01, 18 September 2007 (EDT)

Backspace

Why isn't there a backspace in the song template between inverted commas and "by... It looks like this: This song appears on the album "xxx"by xxx. --Eyesglare (writing to reach you) 05:05, 6 August 2007 (EDT)

I have no idea, but FYI, backspace is the key above enter that removes a character. What you're referring to is a whitespace. --Timm 14:53, 14 September 2007 (EDT)


Painful edit mode

It is utterly painful to enter every single album / song name twice. Since the script knows on which band page we are, it could add the band name automatically.

I want to enter this:

== Album Name (2007) ==
# This Is A Song Name

Not this. (This step only happens in the background.)

== {{lw|Bandname:Album Name (2007)|Album Name (2007)}} ==
#'''{{lw|Bandname:This Is A Song Name|This Is A Song Name}}'''

Technically, isn't it possible to implement this?

Ultinate 15:53, 20 September 2007 (EDT)

The following answer was moved from the Talk:LyricWiki, where the question was also placed. (I have since deleted it, as the question is more appropriate here.)
I don't know about the technical part, (I'll leave that to Sean) but each section that is typed in has a purpose. (Although, when first entering the information, the part after the pipe "|" can be left blank and a duplicate of the part after the colon will automatically be placed there. If there are parentheses involved, however, there's a glitch and so album titles, for example, have to be entered twice. Underlines are unnecessary, as well.) The part after the pipe is what the link displays. So while the site policy is to capitalize each word, the display on the page can have whatever capitalization is applicable to the album or song.
Entering the artist is important for albums with multiple artists, such as soundtracks, compilations, etc. It's true, 99% of the time the artist in the song matches the artist whose page is being edited, but the automatic form for the album pages has been made to input that info for you. So does the automatic form for the artist pages when a new artist is started. That doesn't help when the artist already exists, of course, but I generally just cut-and-paste another (short-titled) song link and delete the song title and cut-and-paste the new generic link as many times as is needed. Cut-and-paste is your friend!
Also, other subtitles and notes and such can be placed on the page which could follow the basic format that you mentioned. (The "Other Song" sections on many if not most pages, for example.) Implementing such an automatic change would require creating some way to tell the program/script that you didn't want the automatic change to take place.
Unfortunately, any creation of a web page with more than a certain number of variables requires a certain amount of hardship and typing repetition. That's why I know that Sean appreciates all the editing and contributions that everyone does to keep LyricWiki improving and becoming more accurate and comprehensive. The wiki style and learning editing shortcuts just takes a bit of time is all. I hope this is partly helpful in explanation. --Kiefer KieferE KieferTalk 18:07, 20 September 2007 (EDT)
Like Kiefer said, I definitely appreciate everyone's hard work. I too get annoyed of that format, and that is a really good idea to have some short-hand in there. I'll look into that some more.
In the mean-time, I've created a tool similar to one that User:Lentando used to have running, that will help make track listings based on just typing, or on pasting from other sites (wikipedia, amazon, etc.). So, here is the tool to wikify album listings. I tweak it on and off, and hopefully it will be able to auto-detect formats soon.
Let me know if you have any suggestions for it.
-Sean Colombo 11:23, 25 September 2007 (EDT)
As an additional note, I think the album wikifier should be linked to from somewhere else. I haven't had any bug reports or feature requests which probably means that no one is using it. Do we have an appropriate help page with tips for advanced/expert editors?
-Sean Colombo (talk|contribs) 19:40, 20 November 2007 (EST)



sorting...

is there anywhere (already) an explanation about the sorting : why is david bowie not under B ? thanks in advance Krn02 09:04, 6 October 2007 (EDT)

Because the artist's page is filed under "David Bowie" and not "Bowie, David". This has to do with the pagenaming policy, shown at LyricWiki:Page Names. Just using the (literally) straight-forward approach keeps things as simple and least-confusing as possible. This is helpful with the multi-national nature of the site's visitors, contributors, and content. Floyd, Pink, anyone? :- ] --Kiefer KieferE KieferTalk 09:27, 6 October 2007 (EDT)
thanks + making Patricia Kaas at the moment, i understood the thing Krn02 10:13, 6 October 2007 (EDT)

song on diff'rent albums

is it possible to name two or more albums in the {{Song|Album|Artist}} stuff?!? (like original album + live + ...) Krn02 10:13, 6 October 2007 (EDT)

Just do two Song templates, with a <br/> after all but the last album. --Kiefer KieferE KieferTalk 10:18, 6 October 2007 (EDT)
ok thx Krn02 10:31, 6 October 2007 (EDT)

please speed deletion

where can i ask for some speed deletion?

thanks to delete "Patricia Kaas:Entrer dans la lumiere" : we have to keep "Patricia Kaas:Entrer Dans La Lumière" (capital+accent)(but there is a circle in the links... Krn02 14:55, 6 October 2007 (EDT)

I've fixed the problem, see Patricia Kaas:Entrer Dans La Lumière. For deletion of a page just put {{Deletion}} on the page, or if you need it speddied you could try to contact an admin.. --WillMak050389 16:58, 6 October 2007 (EDT)
thanks Krn02 03:09, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

<lyric> or <lyrics>?

I've seen both <lyric> and <lyrics> being used here. What's the correct one? (Mentioning it, I've seen a lot of inconsistency in templates around the page...) --MiSP 07:14, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

Both are the same code, so it does not matter which is used on a page. The only thing that must be followed: the closing code must be the same as the initial code. For example </lyric> can not be used to terminate <lyrics> and vice versa. To the best of my knowledge, there is no "correct" one to use. Hope that helps. --WillMak050389 11:30, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

live albums

what's the policy over here about live albums?! simply put them in the chronology? in another section? Krn02 03:32, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

There isn't a policy right now, but I would just add them in like a normal album.
- teknomunk (talk,E,) 13:08, 8 October 2007 (EDT)
thanks : that's what i did for Patricia Kaas till further notice Krn02 16:14, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

Demographics and Translations

Hello, all.

I'm willing to contribute with translations (Portuguese/English) to the project and I was looking forward to make it more useful to the visitors. I'd like to know if there is any demographic research in LyricWiki, so I could translate the most seen Portuguese pages first, and not just translate them at random.

Any hints? Any other portuguese-speakers?
from BRazil here.

(Msbrowntoyou 16:22, 8 October 2007 (EDT))

There is none that I currently know of (Sean may have a better idea of what information is kept as he's the site owner and has access to the servers). Part of the problem will be that a lot of the Portuguese lyrics will not be marked as such, though you can find a list of the ones that are here.
If there is anything else that I can help with, please let me (or one of the other admins know. We are more than willing to help out.
- teknomunk (talk,E,) 16:36, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

thank you for the reply, Teknomunk.
I'll see what I can do.
(Msbrowntoyou 18:11, 8 October 2007 (EDT))

We don't have a Portuguese Main Page. A tiny version of the flag of Portugal might be a nice addition! --Kiefer KieferE KieferTalk 18:24, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

Links to other Websites

Hello,

it's me again :-)
I'd like to know what are LyricWiki policies about linking/referencing other pages than LyricWiki's in Lyrics pages.

I explain:
There are some lyrics I'm trying to translate that do several reference to brazilian culture (TV programs, artists). I'd like to link those untranslatable stuff to WikiPedia articles, but I don't know how it should be done.

Is it possible?
(Msbrowntoyou 19:51, 8 October 2007 (EDT))

I know how that goes (I do some translations of Japanese things, talk about difficult to translate :P ) I don't think that there is any policies about external links, so use your best judgement in linking. When you are done, drop me a link to the page on my talk page (I'm curious :D )
- teknomunk (talk,E,) 21:28, 8 October 2007 (EDT)
As for the "how it should be done" part, check out the Cheatsheet for information on how to create an external link (and a few other interesting things as well). --Kiefer KieferE KieferTalk 21:38, 8 October 2007 (EDT)
However, I wouldn't recommend adding links inside the <lyrics> tag. Various applications can use LyricWiki's API to extract the lyrics, and we wouldn't want them getting lots of links too. ;) --MiSP 10:28, 9 October 2007 (EDT)

English translations of song titles

"MsBrowntoyou, why don't you ask everything at once and stop creating multiple topics??"
Here I am again.

Question: I couldn't find a way to translate the Portuguese titles in English, so I looked how you were doing it with other languages.
I found a example in the Japanese lyrics ( {{JaTitle|Japanese=雨、削ぎ落とされた感覚|Romanization=Ame, Sogiotosareta Kankaku}} ) and thought I could use something like that to indicate the English meanings.

I tried to adapt it (would look like {{PtTitle|Portuguese=Negligência Social|Translation=Social Negligency}} , in this page ), but it didn't work. It indicates "Template:PtTitle" in a red link and not the text I was waiting.

Hints?
(Msbrowntoyou 11:51, 9 October 2007 (EDT))

First you have to create the template at "Template:PtTitle". I'll give it a shot right now. --WillMak050389 11:55, 9 October 2007 (EDT)
Looks like it should work now: {{PtTitle|Portuguese=Negligência Social|Translation=Social Negligency}} gives:


--WillMak050389 12:04, 9 October 2007 (EDT)

Thanks, WillMak050389!
(Msbrowntoyou 16:07, 9 October 2007 (EDT))

Automate redundant track listings

Hello. I've noticed that track listings are manually duplicated between the album pages and the artists' pages, but I think there are easier ways to do this. The English Wikisource developed the Labeled Section Transclusion extension for this purpose, or we could place <onlyinclude></onlyinclude> around the track listings on the album pages (if that is supported in this version of MediaWiki). In either case, we'd then replace the duplicate track listing on the artists' talk pages with transclusion calls; for example:

=={{lw|Les Cowboys Fringants:Attache Ta Tuque! (2003)|Attache Ta Tuque! (2003)}}==
{{Les Cowboys Fringants:Attache Ta Tuque! (2003)}}

Even most of that could be further automated by a template, so the entire album listing on the artist page would look like this:

{{list album|12 Grande Chansons (2001)}}
{{list album|Motel Capri (2001)}}
{{list album|Sur Mon Canapé (2001)}}
{{list album|Break Syndical (2002)}}
{{list album|Attache Ta Tuque! (2003)}}
{{list album|La Grand-Messe (2004)}}

What do you think of doing something like this? —Pathoschild 08:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I implemented it on Les Cowboys Fringants. —Pathoschild 15:57, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
On the one hand, that is definitely very cool since it makes us only have to maintain the listings once. However, most users come directly to the artist page, and might be extremely confused if they noticed something wrong and clicked "edit" and didn't see the songs at all. (This also breaks a whole bunch of bot and API things... but those could be fixed to work with the transclusion stuff).
I think the hardest part of getting people to contribute to a wiki is keeping them from being afraid to edit or intimidated by the syntax.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
-Sean Colombo 12:03, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
I think that that is pretty good reasoning. I understand the desire to not have to duplicate things from Artist to Album page, for sure. The tendency for errors to get corrected on the Artist page and remain on the Album page is certainly an issue. But the wiki language and syntax certainly isn't easy to pick up for all people. Adding templates into the mix is an added barrier at times for editing. In this case, the template information wouldn't be edited to make a correction, but the page to which the template refers to would be. It would take someone fairly familiar with wikis to decipher that.
As for the tendency for Album pages to differ from Artist pages, it would be nice to be able to automatically check an artist's page to the album pages that link to it to see what differences there may be. --Kiefer KieferE KieferTalk 12:49, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
The template could fake the header with an edit link, so clicking "edit" would bring the user to the edit view for the album page, but that would break the automatic table of contents. I'm not entirely sure how we could maintain simplicity without redundancy; maybe bots could keep album and artist pages synchronized, but that would probably be difficult. —Pathoschild 19:45, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I understand that there are two sides of this matter, and I have yet to make up my mind. However, I'm mostly for implementing this, because differences between artist and album pages is an actual (and possibly huge) problem. It's very tedious, though necessary as of now, going through every album page to check whether the tracklisting is identical to that of the artist page. On another note: Remember including album art in the template - you need to extract the "cover" part of the Album template. --MiSP 16:05, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

If we install the Labeled Section Transclusion extension, we can do the opposite: have the lists on the artist pages, and transclude them on the album pages. That would be less confusing, because the automatic edit link on the album page would show an HTML comment in the section explaining how to edit the track list (instead of the template code). Users editing the list from the artist page probably wouldn't even notice the difference. —Pathoschild 03:52, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Image Categories

I believe having image categories for album art would help - organizing them in various ways for easy access and location. Making them mandatory would be a good idea as well. For classification, instead of piling them all into one giant category we could do genres or even sub genres (which would get messy because some artists are hard to classify). Anyways, a normal album cover art would end up with categories such as Category:Metal images and Category:BANDNAME images. The second type of category would only be necessary if the band had a certain amount of albums and art on the site (maybe 3 would be a good minimum?). --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 23:20, 14 October 2007 (EDT)

I think it would be better to categorize all such images to "Category:Band name", which would then be categorized to the relevant alphabetical, genre, et cetera categories. It's difficult to wait until three images are uploaded before creating the category, because it would require checking how many images have been uploaded for that band every time a user uploads something. Another drawback to limiting categories to bands with several images is that the categories become a confusing mix of images and subcategories, which makes navigation difficult; for example, 3477525m.jpg (an album cover for Fightstar) would be categorized under "I" based on the namespace or "3" based on the file name, rather than "F" based on the band name. —Pathoschild 15:30, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm a little uncertain what the benefits of categorizing images would be. Could you elaborate? --Kiefer KieferE KieferTalk 12:54, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

Discogs links

It's great that Discogs links are included in the artist's page. There's only one problem. In the bands that have "The" as part of the name, Discogs likes it put at the end. So "The Clash" becomes "Clash, The". It's there a way to edit the Discogs link so that it can be properly linked? Thanks =] --Djproject 23:58, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Album Navigation

I think template song or song footer should be modified to allow up to two optional links for navigation within an album. That way people can just click once to get to the next or previous song on the album without having to go back to either the album page or the artist page. Template song would be a better choice because people would see it immediately rather than having to go to the bottom of the page. However, if we did it on both it would be even better, although redundant (providing links in both locations for ease of use). For template song, we could just place a line underneath where it normally places text. Perhaps something like StrategyWiki's footer nav? For example this page has two links at the bottom, with little arrows to denote previous and next pages. --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 20:10, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

I'm all for that. =) --MiSP 17:58, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

Trying out new search functionality

As we all know, the search bar on this site has always been pretty weak. I get asked to fix it almost every week. I could try to hook a fully indexed search-engine into it (something like Lucene) if this doesn't work, but I figured I'd try out a simple Google Site Search first to see if they do any better than the default MediaWiki search (I have a feeling they do... that's their job :)).

If you have any particularly good/bad experiences with the new search, please let me know.
-Sean Colombo (talk|contribs) 23:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT) (special thanks to the Game Programming Wiki for the inspiration).

I love Google, I really do. But why replace a Wiki search bar with Google's? I wouldn't be complaining except that now, as far as I know, it is impossible to create pages with Japanese page names. Simply entering the text into my browser's URL bar doesn't work, because the parser interprets it incorrectly. The way to do this before was to search for the page you are trying to create, and then click the 'create this page' link that appeared in the results page. A workaround would be nice, but I just can't see why the searching was even changed. In all the Wiki's I have worked with, I have never had a problem with the search interface. Furthermore, searching through Google was already possible. ~ Wind Owl 23:49, 31 October 2007 (EDT) (Copied from Main Page talk)
EDIT: Apparently the FireFox Search Plugin provided in the sidebar is a functional workaround, but I still think the idea of using Google search technology on a Wiki is silly. ~ Wind Owl
I second WO completely. This Google search stinks and the build in wiki search is fine. Sean, what complaint were there about the built-in search? Maybe it was just a matter of changing the default search namespaces? -- Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 01:59, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
It bugs me too, I think way too many sites are succumbing to Google's difficult to turn down overly wealthy empire. I mean they even keep permanent records of your searches. But yeah now it's very hard to make a page in a different language that uses different texts. GMSuerte 01:08, 1 February 2008 (EST)
With regards to Lucene, the LuceneSearch extension is what the Wikimedia Foundation's wikis use. —Pathoschild 18:29, 01 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi guys, thanks for the feedback. I was un-aware that it would make it annoying to make Japanese pages... youch.
The compliants I heard were from normal users (the kind that look for lyrics instead of add them)... If you search for the lyrics from a song, or if you know just a song name (or part of it) and not the artist, the matching was generally very bad. This didn't really bother me because I knew that I coul just type "Artist Name:Song Name" and get right to a song I was looking for. But since I'm making the pages, not looking for lyrics, I was never searching by part of a sentence, just pages I knew the names of (and I knew to put a colon in there instead of typing "Schism by Tool" because I'm here all the time).
That Lucene plugin sounds like a brilliant fix to all three of the problems (foreign pages, no jump-to-page, and bad search results for new users). I'll look into that as soon as I can (my backlog is a painful at the moment... but I'm planning to get a ton done today. See my userpage for the stuff that has to get done first).
Thanks for all of the feedback & tips guys!
-Sean Colombo (talk|contribs) 12:08, 4 November 2007 (EST)
Excellent, thank you. ~ Wind Owl 12:11, 4 November 2007 (EST)
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