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LyricWiki talk archive for Community Portal
  May - July 2006 August - October 2006 >>

Community Portal

We need to get a real community portal going, with discussions, events, etc. What do you guys think of what to do? --Logan 05:00, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

Sounds good. The first thing that comes to mind is making something along the lines of what Wikipedia has. :p --bleedwithme 08:08, 3 May 2006 (PDT)

Tabs / Sheet Music?

Would there be a way to easily add Tablatures or Sheet Music to this? --Nexxuz 09:38, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

I don't really like this idea too much... I think we should just focus on lyrics! --bleedwithme 08:08, 3 May 2006 (PDT)
There is a wiki based tabulature site called TabWiki that would welcome your contributions. It can be found at --IAmAI 04:15, 4 May 2006 (PDT)

Id say this would probobaly infringe on copyright... I dunno, it could be allowed if you hotlinked to the front covers on amazon, but I doubt full size back/front covers would be allowed.

Album Covers

Are there any plans of adding album covers to album pages on LyricWiki? --bleedwithme 16:44, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

Yup. See The Clarks. Wikipedia is a good source for public-domain album covers. -Sean Colombo 03:44, 4 May 2006 (PDT)

The majority of album covers on Wikipedia are not public domain. They are copyrighted but used via fair use. I'm not sure if fair use would apply here. -- 23:11, 19 May 2006 (PDT)

More categories

We need a real structure and plan on how to create articles. First of all, Category:Song_S isn't enough. Every song must have a template which contains a link to the album name, release date, link to artist and link to the other songs on that album.

Maybe we should do this that way:
Hołek ҉ 05:55, 3 May 2006 (PDT)
Yes, that's probably a good idea. Albums should also be in Category:Albums released in 2006, for instance. And artists should be in Category:Artist, Category:Artists from Norway and Category:Progressive rock
That sounds like a kick ass idea, I am all for it and will do my best to aid in this transition. --bleedwithme 08:04, 3 May 2006 (PDT)
That's nice. But we need a script to do it! No need to use weeks and months trying to do it manually.
There are categories for Category:Genre with subcategories such as Category:Rock. There is nothing for countries as of yet, or for the albums by year (UberBot should be able to do that pretty easily). I started messing around with towns to help people find everything in their local music scene (example: Category:Hometown Pittsburgh PA)
Does anyone have any examples of heirarchal templates that would work like Holek mentioned?
-Sean Colombo 00:37, 4 May 2006 (PDT)

Live Preview

I saw something on Wikipedia called live preview. It looks pretty nifty, and could potentially save Sean some bandwidth. It looks like you may need some JS knowledge to install it, but I'm guessing that Sean could figure it out. Make sure to check out How do I install it on other wikis?. Thoughts? --bleedwithme 11:35, 3 May 2006 (PDT)

That looks pretty cool. The main limitation is that it doesn't do templates yet (it is open source, so that's something I could probably add in... just use AJAX to load the templates and then apply them from there). Looking at the discussion above it appears that pages are going to be becoming very template-heavy very soon. I'm definitely going to keep an eye on this tool, thanks for the heads up
-Sean Colombo 00:54, 4 May 2006 (PDT)


There's no need to manually edit every article with direct link to the wikipedia article. Why not make a Template:Wikipedia and use it like this:

  • {{Wikipedia|Article=Tool_(band)}}
Sweet. Badge floated to the right:
Wikipedia sphere
Wikipedia article on
Text version:
{{wp|Tool_(band)}} which will generate:
-Sean Colombo 00:47, 4 May 2006 (PDT)
This is a great little widget and looks very nice on the Artist page, but is there any way to customise the text so it displays something other than the basic link text. In the page for the The Stone Roses, the text appears as 'Wikipedia has an article on Stone_Roses'. Any way to make this 'The Stone Roses'?
Although I've maintained HTML-based sites for years, editing Wiki-based media is new to me, LyricWiki is my first real foray into it. Thanks for the opportunity to share in a great idea.
--Yashin 03:56, 8 May 2006 (PDT)
Yes, we can always add a Title in the template. That would make it something like this:{{Wikipedia|Article=Tool_(band)|Title=Tool}} or {{Wikipedia|Article=The Stone Roses|Title=The Stone Roses}}, if you'd like. Add {{{Title}}} in the template.
I have now updated the Wikipedia template... How to use it:
{{Wikipedia|Article=Link_to_article|Title=Name we want}}-- pgd
Okay, I've added pgd's fix for this (for some reason his original had been removed) and I've also added a similar fix to the wp termplate. If you've used either of these templates, you should revisit them and make sure they're displaying correctly now. --Yashin 04:25, 12 May 2006 (PDT)

Interpretation / meanings / trivia

What about putting the lyrics on the lyric articles under a heading called lyrics, and add a interpretation/trivia/facts header below? Like this (lyric: Wings for Marie):

== Lyrics ==
You believed
You believed in moments not conceived
You believed in me

== Trivia ==
* Tool's singer, Maynard James Keenan's mother is named Judith Marie Keenan.
* With A Perfect Circle, he sings a song called Judith
* In the song Jimmy, he also sings something something
I really like this idea, but it seems like it might interfere with lyric-gathering programs, such as EvilLyrics. --Darthemed 14:08, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
I don't think it would interfere if the EvilLyrics scripts were searching for the "\n " regex. (we already have ==External Links== anyway).
If it is a problem, we could start throwing <lyrics></lyrics> tags around lyrics. If we do decide to do that, it's something ÜberBot could do pretty easily. -Sean Colombo 14:31, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
I think the trivia mentioned in the example above is more related to the person Maynard James Keenan rather than the actual lyric. In my opinion, the page for whatever song... let's say Yesterday by The Beatles should have the first heading: "Lyrics" then another heading "Annotations" after the lyrics to say something like 'The chorus "Yesterday..." was originally "Scrambled eggs..."'. The annotations can be numbered and linked to from the orginating lyric with one of those internal link things... I can't think of the name of them but they make the URL go from LyricWiki/Yesterday to LyricWiki/Yesterday#Note1 ...after the "Annotations" section there should be a "Trivia" heading for information about the song which does not have a lyrical anchor. For example "This song was written in one night by the singer". After that, a "See Also" section for other songs. This would be especially useful for "Part 1" and "Part 2" songs. Then finally "External Links". ...I guess I went overboard here when I should have only mentioned the trivia section, but ... well I think its all pretty good stuff. Thoughts? Opinions? (sorry about being an unsigned guest) - 23rd May 2006


You know how we use the {{Artist}} template for making the Wikipedia/Amazon links? Is there going to be a {{Album}} template for album pages?

Multiple discs?

How should we format an album that contains two discs? Should they be part of the album header or subheaders? I'd like an answer from Sean Colombo or a mod (if any exist). Right now, I'm guessing that we're using subheaders, like ===''[[Artistname]]''===.

Hmm, both discs are part of the same album, so I think they should be together in one heading, but then diff sub-headings like you said. Generally each disc has it's own numbering so that seems like a great opportunity to be split into sub-headings and allow the numbers on the ordered list to start over.
For example:
=={{lw|Band:Album (YEAR)|Album (YEAR)}}==
===Disc 1===
# First track on disc 1
# Second track on disc 1
===Disc 2===
# First track on disc 2
# Second trck on disc 2
Sometimes the discs have names such as "Speakerboxxx" or "The Love Below" and in these cases, the names could be substituted for "Disc 1" and "Disc 2"
Rock on!
-Sean Colombo 01:04, 6 May 2006 (PDT)

"And," "The," "Or," etc. in Album Titles

How should we handle prepositions and articles in album names? I say that three, two, and one letter articles and prepositions should be lowercase, as in books, to show that they are not as important as the non-general parts of the album title. We should establish a rule for this before the site grows too large. If we are to do as I propose, we should esablish a list of words that are always lowercase in album titles. Is there any opposition? Consonance 23:54, 5 May 2006 (PDT)

The current standard (which I think works pretty well) is just to capitalize the first letter of every word. This way there is no learning curve for remembering which words are lowercase before finding the pages. If you type a page into the search bar or into the address bar with different capitalization it will not give you the page you wanted, so capitalizing all words makes it much easier to know whether you are on the right page. Although lowercase words are more correct (and generally preferable), I just think that we will be likely to have several pages with different capitalization if we have any ambiguity on caps. -Sean Colombo 00:51, 6 May 2006 (PDT)

I agree that capitalizing the first letter of every word should be deprecated from a stylistic point-of-view but it is the easiest approach to apply consistently. It should be clear that people generally don't use the mixed-cased format consistently from CDDB, etc.! --Ant 09:50, 3 July 2006 (PDT)

Commas/Parts formatting

Some songs and albums have commas when indicating two or three part songs (e.g. The King Of Carrot Flowers, Pt. 1), while others do not (e.g. The Glow Pt. 2). What should the standard be? Here's a list of possible options, in an example:

  1. The King Of Carrot Flowers, Pt. 1
  2. The King Of Carrot Flowers Pt. 1
  3. The King Of Carrot Flowers, Part 1
  4. The King Of Carrot Flowers Part 1

One might think it questionable to have standard for these kinds of titles, but as Sean Colombo has said, there is no learning curb for users of the site, so we should have only one way of formatting this, to keep people from becoming confused. Consonance 01:40, 6 May 2006 (PDT)

I think we should leave this to the bands to decide. Let's stick to what's on the cover. We can always make redirects if people write too much wrong... --pgd
Hrmm... Both of those ideas seem like they would work really well (the advantage of the second one being that our info would be more encyclopedia-like and match Amazon & Wikipedia & The actual back of the disc). I'll be back on late tonight (EST) and I'll run a script on my local copy of the song list to see if one format or the other (Pt. or Part and comma or no comma) is distinctly dominant right now.
-Sean Colombo 10:01, 6 May 2006 (PDT)
We should seriously leave this to what's on the cover. If the cover doesn't mention parts, then there's another discussion. --pgd

The ampersand problem

Ampersands (&) break pages that actually exists. Examples would be:

I looked around for a solution regarding this problem and found:
--Frontway 06:26, 6 May 2006 (PDT)

Ooo, good catch. I messed around with the rewrites a little on the test server... but I think I'm going to do the patch and full fix (assuming my host will let me). This is now on my list of stuff to do.
PS: Thanks for going out and finding the solution! That saves me a ton of time :D!
-Sean Colombo 09:55, 6 May 2006 (PDT)

Please fix the ampersand problem. It's a real pain. Basically, ampersands in URLs don't work. I'll demonstrate. Compare these two LyricWiki pages:

Notice any difference? They should be the exact same page, but on the second page everything cuts off the ampersand and everything after it, and nothing shows up on the page.Consonance 21:43, 18 June 2006 (PDT)

_ :( I tried to apply the fix a while ago (not the patch to the server, I'm still not sure how to do that)... anyway, the Rewrite rules in the file didn't fix the & problem. The .htaccess file is:

RewriteEngine on

# anything that contains a dot without a colon should be left alone
RewriteRule ^[^:]*\. - [L]
# anything else is to be treated as a title
RewriteRule ^(.+)$ /index.php?title=$1 [L,QSA]

The QSA part of that last line was supposed to fix it, but doesn't seem to. Anyone know a way to fix this w/o patching? (Or am I just going to have to try to patch it?)
-Sean Colombo 07:21, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

Acording to MediaWiki you'll need to use a patch to fix the problem. I found a short section about it at their website, I hope it helps. Their patch uses code different from what you just detailed.
Of course, you'll need to modify the given code to match LyricWiki, but I hope it'll work. Consonance 12:35, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

Various Artists

It just occured to me that right now there is a fundamental problem with listing compilation albums on LW. We can't have Various Artists under the V Artists section, because then we'd have a huge list of albums under the artist Various Artists. I propose that we add a category called "Various," "VA," "Various Artists," or something like that under the Artists section. Then, instead of listing artists, we'd list albums. Or we could list the record labels that release the compliations in the Various Artists section and put the compilations under that umbrella. Consonance 23:46, 6 May 2006 (PDT)

I think if we just list the compilation as the artist (ex: "Wow Worship") then we could list the albums ("Wow 1" through "Wow 7billion-or-whatever") on that page and just add the categorization of Category:Various Artists. If someone wants to use browsing for that and there isn't an easily recognizable name of a collection of compilations, they should probably just browse by Album. The songs should be easy to find too because if the artists of the individual songs haven't released the song on a different one of their own discs, the link could still appear in "Other Songs" by that artist.
Rock on. -Sean Colombo

Solo/related projects linked as 'See Also'

A number of acts included in LyricWiki include members who have solo careers or are invloved in other projects. I think it would be a good idea to link to these projects from the artist page with a 'See Also' section (a la Wikipedia).

For example, in the band the Stone Roses, the four members all have other projects - Ian Brown now has a solo career, John Squire was in the The Seahorses before going solo, Mani is in Primal Scream and Reni was briefly in the Rub.

To accomodate this, I've included a 'See Also' section that looks like this:

 ==See Also==
 *{{lw|Ian Brown}}
 *{{lw|John Squire}} and {{lw|The Seahorses}}
 *{{lw|Gary Mounfield|Mani}} and {{lw|Primal Scream}}
 *{{lw|Alan Wren|Reni}} and the {{lw|Rub|The Rub}}

Any thoughts on this?

--Yashin 04:29, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

Awesome idea. Go for it! :) I'll add See Also's too when I see an opportunity (that would be sweet for a lot of supergroups). -Sean Colombo 07:06, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

Songs with multiple translations

If a song's in English and the artist has also released it in another language, how do we format the page title? Would it look something like Artist:Song (Language) (original just Artist:Song) or Artist:Song/de where "de" is the internet country code, in this case Germany (a list of country codes).
I played around with a Multiple Languages template here. --Frontway 12:21, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

Based on the Multiple Languages template, I have created a working template as well. Looking for feedback before I move it to Template:Multiple Languages/V1 for general use.

Guest vocals

How should we address songs with guest vocals? --bleedwithme 12:38, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

This could be addressed by including the vocalist in the 'performed by' bit.
Dire Straits: Money For Nothing
performed by Dire Straits and Sting (vocals)
--Yashin 07:06, 9 May 2006 (PDT)

Hometown category Category:Hometown

The hometown category is building quite nicely with US acts, but we need to have some sort of structure in there to capture international acts. Do we use a country abbreviation, and if so what do we refer to to keep it consistent? Three letter abbreviations or two letter ones like the US states?

Maybe we could have seperate pages for different countries, and then underlying hometown pages?

Also, does anyone have any thoughts for a template for the hometown page itself? --Yashin 09:24, 11 May 2006 (PDT)

Since these would be countries, not languages, the two-letter country codes would be most appropriate. I think cascading them by country is a good idea, especially as people start categorizing more non-US bands.
-Sean Colombo 11:42, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
So that means UK, but not Scotland - damn! ;-)
--Yashin 03:54, 12 May 2006 (PDT)
My proposal for hometown categorization is Hometown/<country>/<state or province>/<city>. The pros with this is that you're always aware of where you are, country, state, city and we won't have to worry about overlapping of states, cities etc. The only disadvantage I'm concerned about is that the categories would become rather long. A template I made here and the band Muse cat'ed like this. --Frontway 04:32, 5 June 2006 (PDT)
I'm not sure that "the two-letter country codes" is actually the "best" reference for this; we should use a Wiki one! Take a look at Wikipedia Community Portal/Archive/2006 1. In any case, "UK" is often used for the official "GB". To address Yashin's question, we could use Community Portal/Archive/2006 1 and similar codes, specifically the Community Portal/Archive/2006 1 for Scotland, GB-SCT. The codes include US states, of course: US-CA for California, etc. --Ant 14:23, 3 July 2006 (PDT)

User journals.

Might it be okay to create user journals like a kind of blog? I think it would be great for the community spirit. The journal index would be set up in User:Username/Journal/ and posts made to User:Username/Journal/YYYY-MM-DD/Post Title
A journal category (Category:User Journals), as a grand master of user journal pages, all users have their own part of it which presents entries made to their particular journal (Category:User_Journals/Username).
Feedback? --Frontway 09:46, 15 May 2006 (PDT)

Are you kidding?! This is a lyrics website! The last thing we need is a blog section! People will just end up posting about how their parents are nazis and their life sucks. --bleedwithme 10:45, 15 May 2006 (PDT)
Even if this is a lyrics website it would still be nice to have some kind of community, much like the ones at Wikipedia and deviantArt. As for the contents of journals I don't see why people writing about their parents being nazi is a problem, as long as they are not breaking any laws. One can't always expect it to be interesting material in a person's blog. --Frontway 12:24, 15 May 2006 (PDT)
If you want a blog, just go to Livejournal or Myspace. Or even blogspot. That and the ability to add links in your user pages simply makes this suggestion completely redundent. Why should we have a service not even peripheral to lyrics? Sure, a community is a nice thing to have, but any energies devoted to the site should be devoted to doing what we're doing really well, not doing a whole bunch of different things in the name of a cause. Consonance 20:15, 15 May 2006 (PDT)
Just use your ~ to write about your feelings. --pgd

Export to txt files

It would be nice an export function to text files of single songs or entire albums. 17:03, 20 May 2006 (PDT)


What would people think about not formatting all the lyrics with <pre> tags? Or, I don't know, redefining pre tags so that they don't do what they're designed to, if pre is already too ingrained into the site?

Seriously, it makes the site look really ugly, makes the songs far harder to read, and - as far as I can see, anyway - adds nothing, given that we aren't trying to include tablature here. There may be occasional rare exceptions, like multi-part harmonies where we badly want to show where one part comes in relative to another, but in general fixed-width fonts should be avoided unless there's really good reason to use them.

My thinking was that it made it easier to read (I am definitely biased though since I'm a programmer). Since lyrics are poetry, sometimes line-lengths in well thought-out songs make a visual art also. Someone else mentioned this being a problem too though (I think it was TrevorP), so it might just be me.
What are other people's thoughts on this? (If you are in favor of changing the font, feel free to include suggested replacements).
-Sean Colombo 14:30, 23 May 2006 (PDT)
This style of formatting does make the wikitext easier to read, no need for double line breaks between lines, or <br/ > tags after each line. I am a programmer also, but I do agree the outputted grey box is not ideal, and a monospace font is certainly not appropiate. They have their place, but for lyrics and poetry, a variable-width font is more suitable, and easier on the eyes. The other problem with the <pre> tags is that they do not wrap text.
This and a few other issues regarding styling conventions I have raised previously (see also the discussion), and have started work on a plugin to resolve them. I hope to work with Sean to get this implemented, but in all likelihood, the wiki software will need to be upgraded first. This may take a little while I believe.
I don't have any preference for fonts, the default wiki font is fine, so long as its variable-width, and can wrap.
The discussion about styling should probably now be moved to a more public LyricWiki:Style page or similar.
-TrevorP 16:32, 23 May 2006 (PDT)


I found this plug-in for the media player Amarok (through Google, since I use Winamp) that grabs LyricWiki lyrics.

Posted the link in case anyone's interested. Could an Amarok user let us know how good the script is? Maybe anyone looking to develop a Winamp plug-in could learn a thing or two from it. Has anyone found LyricWiki scripts for any other media players? Consonance 21:35, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

That's cool that someone made a plugin for it! Another one of our users (Stradicaster) has made a C# program that grabs lyrics from LyricWiki for the current song you are playing in WinAmp. It's not a plugin yet, but either he or someone else can hopefully make it into a full-fledged plugin. -Sean Colombo 01:21, 28 May 2006 (PDT)

Multiple artists with the same name?

I was wonder how these should be handled. There's currently a page for the British band "Undercover". I'd like to add a page for the US Christian band "Undercover". What's the format for differentiating two artists with the same name? --Salt-Man Z 14:13, 1 June 2006 (PDT)

Could we do Undercover_(Folk) and Undercover_(Rock) for example? (I'm not familiar with the styles of the two bands, but you get the picture) Any other ideas? Should the location be used instead (British vs US)?
-TrevorP 17:46, 1 June 2006 (PDT)
I think country is probably more likely to be unique than the genre (it's usually illegal to use the same name as another band in your country). So country codes would give us Undercover_(UK) and Undercover_(US)
Since moving an artist takes a lot of legwork at the moment (I should make a script for that), I went ahead and did it so that we don't have to dig through histories later to figure out what the page names were.
-Sean Colombo 23:05, 1 June 2006 (PDT)
Works for me. Thanks! --Salt-Man Z 07:42, 2 June 2006 (PDT)

"The" Artists

As I currently understand it, not all "The" artists are filed correctly, i.e. leaving the "The" at the start. If we are editing or adding to a "The" artist that is currently filed as "Artist, The", should we leave it as that or change all occurences we can to "The Artist"? --Vulpecula 05:04, 17 June 2006 (PDT)

ÜberBot has a script to move an entire artist at once. I'll get on using that. If you come across any Artists he misses, just put them in Category:The and let me know about it and we can move the whole artist (ie: moves their song and album pages, and fixes the links in each page to point to the new page names).
-Sean Colombo 08:24, 17 June 2006 (PDT)
Oh, I just wrote in the discussion page of the main page but here it goes again... I guess there should be similar categories for the cases of other languages. For example, "Tigres Del Norte, Los" should be "Los Tigres Del Norte". Suggested categories: "El", "La", "Los", "Las". --Jorgenmz 18:13, 15 July 2006 (PDT)
Update! I've found instructions in Sean's talk page: "If you find a page (like your example) that is already in the wrong notation, please add it to a similarly named category (in this case Category:Die) and then add that category as a sub-category of Category:The (I did this for "Die" to start it off) so that I can find all of the pages easily."--Jorgenmz 18:22, 15 July 2006 (PDT)

Music and Lyrics Credits

I think all pages should credit those who wrote the music and lyrics. So, for example, for Queen:Save Me we should add:

Music and lyrics by Brian May

And we should have extra categories to allow us to find all compositions by a given person. For example:

[[Category:Music:Brian May]] [[Category:Lyrics:Brian May]]

Or - since this is LyricWiki - do this only for whoever wrote the lyrics? The same category should be added to the person's page, of course. (This will mean we have pages for composers that aren't recording artists - but that seems OK.) --Ant 14:30, 3 July 2006 (PDT)

White power bands

How do we approach the element of white power music? Should the lyrics be censored or not even added? There's this Swedish band called Storm (white power), that made a song called Fy Fan, Svenska Flicka (Damn It, Swedish Girl).
The first paragraph in those lyrics goes like this:

Våra svenska flickor är mycket speciella
Blonda, ariska och med rent vitt blod
Samtliga med stolt nordisk bakgrund
Vikten av att hålla rasen ren de alla förstod

Our Swedish girls are very special
Blonde, aryan and with pure white blood
All of them with proud nordic background
The importance of keeping the race clean they all understood

So, yeah? And here's a list of other right-wing bands: --Frontway 07:44, 30 July 2006 (PDT)

I think this simply boils down to the fact the song may cause offence (correct my if I'm missing the point). Shouldn't it just be marked as containing offensive themes, in the same way a song may be flagged as containing offensive words. It probably wouldn't hurt coming up with a few categories to separate 'offensive themes' out into more descriptive groups, 'racist', 'strong sexual themes', 'suicide/depression/death', etc. The problem becomes then, where to draw the line, but wikis are usually good at finding a good balance of consensus, so I wouldn't be too worried about that.
--TrevorP 08:17, 30 July 2006 (PDT)
agree, just mark them as possibly offensive, same as any other lyric with dodgy shit it in.--Naught101 08:54, 5 August 2006 (PDT)
Why the hell should you mark it with possibly offensive? Maybe someone finds it offensive, but you don't have to go warn people!
I agree - a disclaimer might be a good thing to tack onto something like that... but certainly don't censor or block things out... there's too much of that in the world already.--Infinitemusic34 15:04, 9 October 2006 (PDT)
Whaaaaaaaat?! Are you going to censore/delete Cannibal Corpse as well? You can't do that, censorship is Kryptonite to art. If art were Superman, of course.
Cannibal Corpse have been censored and even completely banned in some countries, and it's utter bullshit. --bleedwithme 17:07, 9 October 2006 (PDT)
Of course we don't want sensorship of any lyrics or artists. However, it would be considerate to allow those users who do not want to be exposed to certain types of language to avoid it.
- Teknomunk 10:28, 10 October 2006 (PDT)
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