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{{Additional Albums}}

Multiple album appearances...This isn't the first post I've seen on this (and Artist Header) so I really think we should make a decision on both these templates. They can always be adapted. We can just incorporate info into the Help pages and apply the templates to pages as we come across them for now, so as not to over burden the job queue. What say you guys?  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 23:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


Those in favour of implementing Additional Albums Template:
Redxx
6x9
Kiefer I'm in favor, though.  :-]
Aquatiki
WillMak050389See note below
teknomunk

Those in favour of (officially) implementing Artist Header Template:
Redxx
6x9 Guess you didn't expect that ;-)
Kiefer Even my neighbor is in favor of a template with this flavor. :-]
Aquatiki
WillMak050389This isn't official yet?
teknomunk

Those against implementing Additional Albums Template:
Please write a full and detailed explanation in no less than 963 words ;)
Those against implementing Artist Header Template:
(Actually, you ain't allowed to be against this 'cos I think it's neat).


Um ... I already changed the artist help page to show {{ArtistHeader}}, per the conversation just above this one.

Also, I thought we were going to add the optional second album to {{Song}} and then if there were more than two per song, we'd use {{Additional Albums}}. --Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 01:21, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

AAh sorry. I'm a bit behind on my watchlist so I haven't got to Help page yet. Thank you for doing that Aqua - I'll check it out and probably meddle ;) Yes the idea for optional second album (possibly third?) in {{Song}} is good. I'm happy with that. It's more a question of providing people with info about {{Additional Albums}} and when it's appropriate to use and sooner rather than later. Call it damage limitation ;)  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 01:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
At this point ArtistHeader has already become official (maybe not officially official, but we all use it). Additional albums could use a little work, but I think this is a better alternative than the current system of a million Song templates with a star each. I would assume that we could get a bot to fix these, and if we decided to go to a new system, the bot could re-edit. I don't want to open up a whole new can of worms, but I'm going to: what is the current status of the new {{Album}} template? Is something stalling that project? --WillMak050389 01:49, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

{{Song}}'s album #2

Uummm, was someone gonna add a second album possibility to {{Song}}? I can do it, but I thought maybe there was one in the wings somewhere ...? Did we want to go with one or two additional albums being possible? --Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 12:05, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I think two additional albums would be good. And while you're at it is there any chance of allowing subsequent text to commence on same line (EXAMPLE: Staind:Black, i.e. looks bad, wasted space, etc..) and also to get type = compilation to work like soundtrack (pick up on album name not artist)? I'm only asking because of job queue...  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 14:23, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Did you ever hear from Team_A? I know he was working on this. Is he dead? I know I'm scarce these day 'cause of work, but he got adminship and skipped down! --Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 06:06, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Sorry aqua I'm a bit behind with my watchlist. No I haven't heard back from him yet. He hasn't been here since the 5th and then only very briefly. I was going to email him to make sure he was OK but he hasn't got an email set up :(. Is school/college back yet?  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 05:38, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, school is back in here in the States. Do you think I should just roll my own {Song} with 2/3 albums?--Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 15:00, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
I would. But can you take the above into account if at all possible? And I may be pushing my luck, but also make the full stop the default, but with option of continuing sentence if required? (There have been many occasions when I have desired this). Thanks Aqua.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 16:33, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

{{SongFooter}} update

After it was decided that songs in "Category:Songs X" should be sorted by song title, not pagename, I set to work to update {{SongFooter}} and noticed quite a few things that I thought should be changed/optimised/added along the way. You can see the result here. Don't be alarmed at the number of changes: most of them probably won't affect 99.99% of song pages anyway. All of these changes (except the category sorting thing; on this I insist) are up for discussion: if the majority doesn't like one of them, I'll remove it. Please test it on some pages, clearing some parameters and adding others and see what it does. I *think* I have squashed all bugs, but I might have missed a few. — 6x9 (Talk) 14:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Haven't tried it out yet but looks great! Thank you for the time you devoted to this.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 03:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

{{WelcomeIP}}

This was something I started a while back now but it wasn't finalised so I'm bringing it up again.

Has anyone got any objections to updating this very outdated template >> Template:WelcomeIP with this >>> Template:WelcomeIP/Sandbox?

Please note that I have decided to use [[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]] for the number of pages in the hopes that this will help to maintain the accuracy of information and prevent the necessity for this template to be updated quite as frequently. I don't envisage this will present any problems, but I'd be grateful to receive confirmation on this point.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 09:13, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be better to reduce the wordiness somewhat? The longer the text is, the less likely users are to actually read it. I'd remove the top paragraph completely, or at least shorten it drastically (the statistics are already on the main page anyway). Also I think your addition to the LW:PN message is unnecessary, since the users will have to read that page anyway.
Pity we can't include an autodestruct timer, so the template removes itself from a talk page after half a year or so… — 6x9 (Talk) 13:56, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I agree. I think that for IP users, perhaps killing a bit of the wordiness might be good. Honestly, the chance that an IP user returns to read it is likely not huge, and if it is, it really should be a casual begging for the IP user to log in (where they will/should get the full Welcome message) and telling them the benefits of doing so. A link to the Help section and LW:PN is still necessary, though.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   16:20, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
How's this for a bare-bones version? — 6x9 (Talk) 16:47, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I think that that covers it!    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   17:13, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Looks good. --Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 17:22, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
EDIT CONFLICT written before I knew you'd done it:
Actually, for once I'm inclined to agree with you. I would like to point out however that I did not write this. I simply kept what was already there (see {{WelcomeIP}} & {{Welcome}}) and updated it. My main priority was really to add a note about the Help Desk and the FAQ, and to update the 400,000 songs bit (which shows you how out of date this template is) to 700,000. Ok I may also have added a few Redxx words here and added what I thought was good on others welcome templates.
Anyhow, seeing as the wording is almost exactly the same on what I had planned to propose for the other welcome template, you may as well have a bash at doing that one too! Just don't forget to report back here when you think you're done, so I can moan to you about it though, will you dear? :-)  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 18:27, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
The Special Redxx Revamped Version (2009)
"Once you do"? or "If you do"? Link to Help Desk and to Community Portal? We get a lot of passing trade through there. And please note, whatever wording we decide upon, I want to keep my original base template. 1) I want to be able to enter my name and 2) I want the option to make it a prettier colour (well obviously ;))  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 18:27, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I chose "Once" instead of "If" because the previous sentence already starts with an "If". A link to Help:Contents is provided, and there you have big fat links to the C.P. and the H.D. Really, the shorter the better. Parameters still work as previously. — 6x9 (Talk) 18:50, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

{{AlbumtypeSwitcher}}

I was wondering if we could make a few more changes to this before it become much more widely used. I just think we could provide a little more variety, in order to give more information that may be helpful in learning about the song, especially when it is on a number of different releases. For instance, a person would probably opt out of researching a live release of a song that they haven't heard the studio version of first. Here's what I propose:

What we have already (if I can read the template syntax right)
What I think we should add or alter

This is of course, up for comments, suggestions, questions, insults, etc. I think, as I touched on up there, it would be better to have more variety a not use it often, than wanting it and not being able to use it. Also, I don't think this will affect the new changes to {{Song}} (we won't need to edit it again, I think, which means not much more piling on of the job queue). So whaddaya think? --WillMak050389 21:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

My brain is currently wrung out, so I'll leave the thinking to others for a while. We could really use Team a's input on this one, since he proposed similar additions to his {{Album}} overhaul. (Once my brain has somewhat recovered, I'll try to incorporate the album switcher into {{AddAlb}}…) — 6x9 (Talk) 01:28, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
I was thinking the same. I'm really starting to get concerned about him (especially knowing what some "gangsta"'s are like). I would just like to know he is OK but he's not contactable by email :( Anyway life goes on...I hope he'll be back soon though.
I certainly agree that it's preferable to have these parameters and not use them than have a need and not have them. And, like you say, these variations, e.g. "released on bootleg album", etc. are all used in various forms on the site. At least if we actually included them in {{Song}} we could make formatting, e.g. line spacing, etc. uniform across all song pages. Theses variations aren't going to go away by ignoring them, that's for sure (lol). Adding these would increase the number of categories though, e.g. Category:Songs from Bootleg Album. Whether that presents a problem I do not know.
As for the film parameter? Well I came across a Marianne Faithfull song a few days ago that appeared in a film. However although I like the wording "appeared in the film" the current film parameter would not be suited to this song because no soundtrack album was in fact ever made. So although the wording is fine the link would never be appropriate and would remain that ugly red colour we know so well. It wasnt a music film, so it's not as if I could list the film as a DVD. So I would want that to be taken into account too.
As for compilations? Well as you will note from the above correction, the compilation parameter doesn't in fact work for various artists, only for the named artist. The only difference therefore between this and "album" is the wording, in so far as using this parameter results in "appears on compilation" instead of " appears on album". This does need to be corrected.
I think a good word to use for various artists albums is "included on".
The wording on the "live" parameter could be "was performed live and is included/appears on the album Artist/No Artist..." (I'm sure this could be worked out for both VA and single artist albums...probably compilations too)
I would also propose that we add a further variation "Unreleased song" or something like that, because some songs (e.g. those on MusicBrainz termed "non-album tracks") can't even be allocated to (known) bootlegs.
Songs from bootlegs, well I think this would need to be restricted to known bootlegs, i.e. only those listed on MusicBrainz, AllMusic, Discogs or Wikipedia. After all anyone can make an unofficial recording. I have certainly made many in my time. I'm sure you have too ;) Maybe the "Unreleased song" bit above could kick off this parameter with an optional "but appears on the bootleg album BOOTLEG ALBUM NAME, with no link and no year of release (since we don't want to encourage people to list bootlegs and bootlegs obviously don't have a true "year of release").
Yes EP is needed.
Ok well I've certainly started the ball rolling. I haven't really given this much thought I've simply typed what's come into my head, so.. Anyway, good proposal Will! Well done.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 03:13, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
Looks like my inner eye is working then :-) Like I wrote yesterday, just after updating the templates: "Now waiting for folks to come out of the woods and tell me what I might have added…"
Live, EP, best-of and even Bootleg can all be added to albumtype switcher. Your unreleased thing would have to be added to the song template directly (though jobqueue-wise that wouldn't make any difference), but is unnecessary because I already added a catch-all "addtext=" parameter. I wouldn't add Bootleg as type, since that might encourage people to use it. (type=compilation works as intended now, BTW. You might want to read the updated documentation.) As for films? There are these for starters. — 6x9 (Talk) 03:52, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
Oh, and the wording up to "…appears" is in Song, not AlbumtypeSwitcher, so changing it to things like "was performed (live) for" would again require an edit to Song. — 6x9 (Talk) 03:52, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
I've created a mock template at my sandbox. I have added various artist options for all formats (and solo for those that were only VA in the first place). All right, what do I need to fix? Personally, I don't mind bootlegs (if they're widely known), and there are already a few on LW (see Pink Floyd:A Treeful Of Secrets (2000) (my creation), Traveling Wilburys:Traveling Wilburys Volume 4½ (1991) (my creation), Syd Barrett:Magnesium Proverbs (1970) (surprisingly not my creation, considering the Pink Floyd connection), Pearl Jam:23/5/00 Estadio Do Restelo, Lisbon, Portugal (2000), and I'm sure there is a handful of others). --WillMak050389 08:19, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
Seeing as no-one else seems interested in this discussion… (You *do* have this page on your watchlist, folks, right?) How about we pass the type back to the song template directly? (Outside of film, soundtrack and compilation of course, which have their special needs.) That is, let the user enter whatever he wants to as type and have it appear that way in the resulting line? This way we won't have to worry about listing all possible types and various spellings (E.P./EP…). (This might be a good idea for {{Album}} as well, though in that case of course Team a's idea with differently coloured title bars for different types wouldn't work…) So people could enter "bootleg", "box set", "greatest hits compilation", "greatest album of all time", "wax cylinder", whatever they want (default would still be "album" of course). — 6x9 (Talk) 16:36, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
I have got this page on my watchlist I'm just running very behind ;) Another very good idea 6x9. I'm with that if you feel it's workable. Only problem is if it was a various artists unofficial live bootleg soundtrack greatest hits box set it wouldn't link correctly, because it would need album without artist.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 20:53, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
I may be getting a bit too parameter happy, but could we just add something like "artistlink" which accepts a true or false variable, then we could use whatever text the user puts in for "type" and if artistlink=false then don't add artist's name to link. Otherwise link with artist name (this would be default of course). This, of course would involve updating {{Song}} again, but would provide a unrestricted amount of possibilities. --WillMak050389 21:11, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
If that were really necessary I could implement it. (Changing Song wouldn't matter since changing AlbumtypeSwitcher will kill the job queue anyway.) But is it? Are there any no-artist albums that aren't (loosely) covered by Soundtrack or Compilation? Bootlegs don't count :-) And even if the answer is yes, you could just use the "addtext" parameter for them. (You see, I'm trying to keep it simple. Kiefer would be so happy if he were reading this.) — 6x9 (Talk) 21:26, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

It's done. Default is still "album", film, compilation and soundtrack work as previously; other than that, you can enter whatever you want as type – bootleg, greatest hits compilation, EP, E.P., MCD, box set, 8-track, Liquorice Pancake… — 6x9 (Talk) 00:57, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Yay, 6x9! Keepin' it simple! (See, I do read this from time to time.) :-]    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   16:20, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Am I understanding this correctly 6x9, if we enter type=bootleg, "bootleg" will replace the default word "album" (but it will still be treated as an album unless it is a film, compilation or soundtrack)? Or are you talking about the addtext = parameter (which I think is brill btw)? I remember we did that silly thing with cylinders and pancakes one night, but I can't recall when or where or what. I did look on the {{Song}} page before asking.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 18:42, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Yes, in {{Song}} (or {{AddAlb}}) you can enter whatever you want as type, and it will be displayed instead of "album" in the text. It won't do anything else unless it's one of the three types mentioned above. See Pink Floyd:Arnold Layne for an example. (The Song doc. hasn't been updated yet…) — 6x9 (Talk) 19:00, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Thank you  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 21:25, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

{{Deletion/Image}} and {{Spam}}

It seems {{Deletion/Image}} and {{Spam}} and their corresponding categories Category:Requests For Deletion/Images and Category:Requests For Deletion/Spam are hardly ever used at all. Should we delete the latter, and redirect the templates to {{Deletion}} just in case? — 6x9 (Talk) 16:33, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

{{B-Hits}}

Just a quick edit (hopefully). Does anyone mind that I switch the image from Image:Billboardhits.jpg to Image:Billboard logo.png to get rid of the white background? --WillMak050389 18:32, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I certainly don't. Good idea! — 6x9 (Talk) 20:18, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
I guess either no one cares (except for you 6×9) or no one is in opposition. So, I'm taking the plunge so that I can clog the queue and have people complain (it's better than nothing). --WillMak050389 22:27, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Lol...I care. I always care (hee hee), I'm just behind is all. Comes from having over 10% of LW pages on my watchlist. But yes great idea Will! Gets my vote! And it also disguises my clogging the queue too, with {{Welcome}}.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 22:48, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Wait, r u being serious on the watchlist thing? Over 72,000 pages? Seems a little high, but I could believe it with you Redxx. I'm currently at 8674. --WillMak050389 22:52, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Sorry Will no you're right of course. It seems like my old "finger-slipping" problem is recurring. This is also why I haven't been able to complete many edit summaries recently. It's not really because I hate completing them, or because I'm so behind on my watchlist, or anything. I typed 10,089, my finger slipped and so of course it came out as 10% *cough*  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 23:33, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Good grief! I'm at 8,689. (Only 15 more to tie me, WillMak!) You are waaaaaay ahead of yourself, Redxx. Of course, I have probably 300 (or more) talk pages on my watch list from adding Welcomes or BlockUsers on them, but that still wouldn't put me over the 10k mark. Eek.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   04:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Would actually be a hell of a lot more, but I have culled it (selectively mind) on occasions ;) Any suggestions on how to deal with this would be greatly appreciated. After asking Sean (without success) to increase number of days on our watchlists now you fully understand why I am now trying a different approach - working from top to bottom. Rfl.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 05:43, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

(Pagesize = 26,458)

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