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I don't know if anyone else has this on their mind right now, but... A recent edit of a very widely used template has brought this to my attention, again.

What do you think of keeping template documentation on a subpage of the actual template? This is currently done for {{Song}}, and possibly for a few other pages, but I haven't checked which they are. The advantage that this has is that updates to the documentation force updates of only the template's page, and not all the pages that use that particular template.
- teknomunk (talk,E,,A) 02:17, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

I know! It makes no sense that changing stuff inside <noinclude> should add all gazillion includes to the queue, but it does. I vote that any template with more than 100 usages should have template/doc. --Aquatiki - T - E 03:05, 5 August 2008 (EDT)
I don't understand the tech side of things, but I have always found it extremely frustrating after finding a template, to then have to go searching for documentation to explain it. So if this will resolve this issue, like with the {{Song}} template, I'm all for it!  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 11:54, 5 August 2008 (EDT).
UPDATE: I understand now exactly what you mean teknomunk (and in fact I have been doing this myself). I also said that I thought this should be done in a recent post I made in admin portal (under the heading Hometown). I think it's a great idea and agree with you, Aqua and Kiefer that it should be done.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 02:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
This is official policy now, right? I'm working on a template for this myself (User:Team a/Sandbox/Documentation). I started it a long time ago, when my html + css were pretty messy, but I've started working on it again when Teknomunk noticed it. I'm planning for it to not only add the correct categories, but integrate in protection text and the lock. Another feature (something I've been working on lately) is that if the documentation doesn't exist, it can say so and preload a template documentation page formatting layout, with instructions and tables to fill in the data. The same would go for deleting and recreating the sandbox, and linking to a "changes to be added" page too. I could use some help with what the text should say. Also, is there any way to find out how many pages a template is transcluded in, and how many other templates it's transcluded in? team atalkctrb 19:24, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Have a look at "What links here" in the toolbox at the left. This will give you a list of everything that links to a given page, and will list translcusions as well. That list is sometimes unwieldy when the page has a lot of links, though.
- teknomunk (talk,E,,A) 20:16, 19 December 2008 (UTC)


...On language definition, do Instrumentals really need it? EchoSierra 13:54, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

I would say not. If I was doing a {{Song Info}} on one, I'd put not applicable. --Aquatiki - T - E 14:00, 5 August 2008 (EDT)
Very good point Echo! Yes, what language do we put in SongFooter for instrumentals..? As for English, yes I think template should default if nothing is specified. (And rfl with regards to English. I feel just a little bit silly now (lol)..Good job I can laugh at myself!  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 14:12, 5 August 2008 (EDT)
Early on, I think the attitude was sort of that the language parameter was certainly needed for non-English songs, but not necessary for English recordings, although if the parameter was filled in, it wasn't removed. (Mainly it was in the "We've got bigger fish to fry" category, I guess.) Now that we are moving on and getting more obsessive about the "little things", it's now a necessity. I'd hate to just auto-fill it in, because non-English songs would get mis-attributed, and the error would be harder to spot than if we had things as they are now with the "Songs needing language identification" category.
My suggestion for Instrumentals is to categorize the language as "Instrumental". Short and to the point.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   22:18, 5 August 2008 (EDT)
Agree with all the above, including new language category "Instrumental". And yes you are right Kiefer, a lot would get mis-attributed if the template defaulted to English when incomplete. I think in view of my ongoing efforts with the "uncategorised" songs, I was just feeling lazy (lol). Meaning, I was balancing this possibility against the amount of work involved in attributing the correct language to these songs, because I imagine songs without any language would, like the "uncategorised" songs, also need to be done manually.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 06:25, 6 August 2008 (EDT)


Maybe we can just merge this with Help:Templates/Listing since the function of that page is already to list the frequently used templates. --Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 14:09, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

The reason we've made LW:AP is to have conversations that we might want to keep 'admin only' and that sort of thing, just as soon as Sean makes these pages view/editable only by admin.
King_Nee1114 (talk pagecontributionsdeletions) 14:24, 12 August 2008 (EDT)


In light of recent events, I would like to propose that some guidelines be put in place for changes to the most commonly used templates, most of which are (or certainly should be) Admin-edits-only. I would be glad of suggestions for what you all think the guidelines should be, however I would like to start the ball rolling by saying that I feel that any changes to major templates should only be made after:

  1. the changes have been proposed in Admin Portal,
  2. sufficient time has been allowed for all admins to respond,
  3. after any admin who has not responded in Admin Portal has been contacted on their talk page/by email,
  4. if the majority of admin are in favour of the proposed changes.

I would further suggest that where appropriate, if the majority of admin are in favour of the proposed changes, the discussion should then continue on the template’s talk page, or in the Community Portal, since of course there may well be others, people like Senvaikis whose opinions I am sure we have all come to respect, who may also wish to contribute to such discussions.

OK over to you guys...what say you? ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 22:36, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

In favour. There's even a subpage specifically set up for this purpose; seems a shame not to use it. -- 6x9 (Talk) 22:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Lol why so there is! *note to self* get eyes tested.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 22:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I think that major changes to any template should be discussed, and unless the job queue is less than 500, minor changes like spelling or grammar should be aggregated somewhere so that they can all take place at once. That's my aim with the album edit. Even if each of the album changes were thoroughly tested before being applied, that's like 50 changes, and it would have bogged down the server for weeks if they'd been done in sequence. team atalkctrb 02:02, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


Ok this was a valid correction [1] but since this template is used on an increasing number of pages, should it not be protected?  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 13:47, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Of course. Done. --Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 14:20, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Thank you Aqua!  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 14:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

{{WarnUser}} and {{BlockUser}} templates

I'm increasingly coming to think that we could do with a few optional parameters on these as the wording doesn't apply in certain situations. I don't consider I'm the best one to do it (as I hardly ever block anyone), but I'll probably have a go at it if no one else does it before me. Obviously in a Sandbox first.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 22:53, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

BlockUser could certainly use some parameters. Spam, vandalism, outdated script, Jim… See the drop-down menu in Special:BlockIP. Any other (possible) reasons? WarnUser is mostly OK, I think – spam/vandalism covers most cases, and users with outdated script deserve a friendlier warning (the first time round, anyway). -- 6x9 (Talk) 21:04, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


Since multiple {{Cover2}} templates take up a lot of space on a song page, I thought we could use something similar to {{Additional Albums}}. See Leonard Cohen:Hallelujah for an example. What do you think? -- 6x9 (Talk) 21:04, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


A long long time ago Backgammon asked why this template had to be so bulky. I only stumbled upon his question because I had thought the same thing. (Great minds and all that… Stop laughing!) Here is a stripped-down version that fits neatly inside the lyrics box, just like {{Wikipedia}}, {{B-Hits}} and {{SOTD}}. Have a look at Manfred Mann's Earth Band:Blinded By The Light to see it in action. (I used the background and border from the old template, but I'd prefer to change it to the same as Billboard and SOTD.) What do you think? — 6x9 (Talk) 04:27, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Why does it have to keep the red border? --Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 05:20, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
It doesn't – like I said wrote, I'd prefer to change it to the same colour scheme as Billboard and SOTD, but for now I left the original colours in case someone liked them. — 6x9 (Talk) 05:30, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
I was just trying to be polite and say that I hate, loathe and abominate the red with every fiber of my being. --Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 05:35, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Rfl@Aqua..(still laughing). I'm not too keen on the red either but I can't say in all honesty that I hate, loathe and abominate the red with every fiber of my being ;-) Christmas1. Great idea 6x9. It's another of those things that we have all just taken for granted and it's not until someone mentions it that we realise we got a problem with it. I'd defo give you a job!  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 05:45, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Haha I'm still laughing at 6×9's "No laughing!" comment. No, I agree with everything said. I've hated the size since I first saw it, but no one has brought it up (as publicly) until now. And I will say that nixing the red is a good idea. Merry Christmas fellow admins! --WillMak050389 05:51, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, the thing was freakin' huge. Never did like it that monstrously huge (in fact it was so distracting that I put it below the lyrics on a couple of pages), but eh...whadda gonna do...bigger fish to fry. Question, though? We've got a few little badges that go over on that side, is there a possibility of making them all the same width? It'd look a lot better on those pages that have a wiki box, SOTD badge, Billboard Hit & #1 badge if they were all uniform. Just sayin'....  :-]    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   00:52, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Good idea Kiefer..yes would look much better if all same size. So much for our Administrators Portal Template talk page..;-) Christmas1  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 17:20, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm??? I don't know what you're talking about! ;-) No.1, B-Hits and SOTD all (should) have the same width now. {{Wikipedia}} is still a bit wider because of padding. We have three options: (1) change it (and bring the job queue to its knees), (2) create a new template specifically for song pages (which could have the same colour scheme too) or (3) learn to live with it. — 6x9 (Talk)
Lol that was if you can just sort my table out (the redundant column at end) I would be very grateful...  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 18:03, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


I know this discussion was stated somewhere else, but I can remember where! I think ArtistHeader is ready for the prime-time. Shall we change the help page and make it all official? --Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 18:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Have the field duplication between Artist & ArtistHeader been resolved? Why not update both docs then? ∃cho⚡ierr∀ () 18:36, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Ready when you are Aqua!  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 18:45, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
... going to my in-laws for Boxing Day. 'give me six hours... --Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 19:31, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

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